Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Mitts quote. [After what I've already presented the nonsense is actually coming from you if you still insist that it is nonsense to regard atheism as a religion. It is the truth and nothing but the truth and for one to deny truth when it stares at them squarely in the face is to be dishonest. For it is really nonsense to deny truth.

Well will, the religion of atheism believes nothing created the heavens and the earth, everything just appeared one day, "poof!" and there came everything.

I don't worship anything Mitt so I don't have a religion, period. Whatever modern translation you may bring forward.

Religions are belief systems that relate humanity to spirituality.
I don't believe in 'spirituality' - just humanity. Ergo. I don't have a religion.

And I repeat ATHEISM DOES NOT BELIEVE NOTHING CREATED THE UNIVERSE. YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T READ, OR IGNORED MY POST ON THE SUBJECT. Atheism accepts that there are unknown factors in the creation of the universe. Unlike Christianity that insists that a being came from nothing and created the world from nothing.

Thanks for your post.

 

Oops. Sorry your Grace, we didn't know.

 

I have no doubt that you believe you "know" what you are talking about.
There are mental hospitals all over the world filled with people who "know" what they are talking about.
All of these people killed others because "God told them to". Do you think their "spiritual experience" was not as valid as yours? How would you go about proving that?

https://canadiancrc.com/newspaper_a...n_says_God_told_her_to_kill_sons_13MAY03.aspx

https://nypost.com/2022/01/31/waffle-house-killer-believes-god-told-him-to-kill/

https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-says-god-told-me-to-do-it-after-fatal-crash

https://www.chattanoogan.com/2004/12/10/59715/Badowski-Says-Killed-Parents-Because.aspx

 

Unfortunately many religions have been founded by people who have had 'experiences'

I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head," he wrote, "above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me." Within that light, he saw two personages — one of whom spoke Joseph's name, pointed to the other, and said, "This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" Joseph Smith.
'Church members believe that Joseph was led to a hill near Palmyra, New York, where he received an ancient record from an angel known as Moroni. The record, engraved on gold plates, gave the history of a people who lived on the American continent during the time of Christ. Joseph translated the plates in about 3 months, and the Book of Mormon was first published in New York by E. B. Grandin in 1830.'

Of course only he had these 'experiences'. As did Mohammed. As did Paul. As did Abraham, and many others. Odd that many religions disagree and all think they are the divinely authorised belief.

Like Nwolfe35 I spent many years as a Christian until I realised that Bible 'facts' did not match up to what we know by archaeology, ancient history etc. etc. Neither do you need to be a Christian to follow Christian values.

'Experiences' are relevant to one person's - often unrealised - needs and not necessarily what others need. You feel your life is being fulfilled by an 'experience' and belief in a God and Mormonism. That doesn't mean it is actually true for others. Just to you.

And why not? Many religious people are satisfied with a belief, as long as it is not proven wrong. And the leaders of religious groups are keen to deny anything that might prove their teaching wrong. Joseph Smith must not be proven wrong or doubted. Mohammed MUST be right, despite many contradictions in his reading and interpretation of the Bible. Jesus must be right despite the contradictions regarding his status as the Messiah. Abraham must be right. Moses must be right. Disregarding the fact there is no evidence for their existence other than the mythical Bible story.

Everyone in life has a time when they realise they need something more - usually in younger people. Many realise that need in various ways. Others need a push -'experience'- to realise that need.

Your 'experience' allowed you to 'find' god - through the Mormon intermediaries who helped you realise your need. Counsellers, psychiatrists, psychologists can do the same. Christian preachers try show one's need for Jesus by accusations of their sins against God. This meets the needs of some to be absolved. For most people they don't feel that need.
You believe it was God so that satisfies you. Good luck with that.

 

Whats the Christian angle on thousands killed in earthquakes in Turkey and Syria because of the unstable world that God created 4 billion years ago. A world that has been unstable ever since, and yet 'He' put man on it to suffer the consequences of His faulty creation. And don't quote mans 'original' sin as man is only a recent 'occupant' of the world.

 

Everybody, even lunatics, have their own rationalizations. How do you know that you aren't a crazed cultist, too enveloped in your delusionary dream to know it. I can't speak to others conduct or lives. I can only speak of my own. Gods spirit brought me a fulness of peace and charity. And I recognized and remembered him. He is reality, and my life is in him.

Believe it or not, God is real. Everyone knows him but has forgotten him. That's why and how the scriptures say, that in the end, whether in this life when he returns or on judgment day, everyone will recognize him, bend their knees and confess that Jesus Christ is their judge and God. This is because everyone already knows him but has forgotten him. I know for myself that he is real. And scriptures support my saying so. But I don't say it of scripture, like the pious draped in robes. I say it of myself by the visitation of Gods spirit, and scripture confirms me. Scriptures aren't the platform for my words. They are my advocate and the one and same God whose spirit knew me.

Yes the sun rises and falls, the seasons roll on, and there is food to be eaten and things to be done. But occasionally one must stop, build an altar and make supplications to the honor of the God who makes life possible. And push aside the noise to hear the voice of our creator, like rain to a parched earth. Is it crazy to be grateful? After all, we are men, not possums.

 

I'd just a soon you spout your godless, satanic lies on your own thread. We don't seek you out, it is up to you to seek the TRUTH, THE WAY and THE LIFE.

 

the demand for freewill, the original sin, and the tho't we can be our own gods lead to this fallen world.

 

I know I'm not a crazed cultist because I, to the best of my ability, demand observable and verifiable proof before I will believe in something. You offer no observable and, more importantly, verifiable proof of what you believe.
In every other aspect of your life you require proof before you will believe something. You recognize that those who claim that God told them to kill are "lunatics". And yet you offer no more evidence than they do that your God is real and then wonder why anyone would reject your claim.

 

That's just your unsubstantiated belief. You can't possibly have any factual evidence of an event that took place several thousands of years ago. But here you are trying your darndest to discredit the Lord Jesus.

Let's not forget what "beliefs" are.

How many times do I need to remind you? Apparently, it looks like I have to remind you again. The Christian Holy Bible consists of the Old Testament which is the Old Covenant and as well as the New Testament which is the New Covenant. Lord Jesus came into the world to save all of mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike. Yes, Lord Jesus spoke to the Hebrew people, but His messages were for all the peoples of the world to hear. That's where the Lord's disciples come into play. They were to spread the Good News of the Gospels along with the converted Paul to spread the Good News of the Gospels to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles of the world, in other words to everyone in the whole wide world. Today we still have work to do in spreading the Good News of the Gospels into remote places of the world. We have missionaries who do this very important task that the Lord commanded us to do.

We Read in Scripture:

12 Afterward he appeared in a different form to two of his followers who were walking from Jerusalem into the country. 13 They rushed back to tell the others, but no one believed them.

14 Still later he appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating together. He rebuked them for their stubborn unbelief because they refused to believe those who had seen him after he had been raised from the dead. [a]

15 And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. 16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned. 17 These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages
18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

19 When the Lord Jesus had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. 20 And the disciples went everywhere and preached, and the Lord worked through them, confirming what they said by many miraculous signs. Mark 16:12-20 NLT

Footnotes
a. 16:14 Some early manuscripts add: And they excused themselves, saying, “This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not permit God’s truth and power to conquer the evil [unclean] spirits. Therefore, reveal your justice now.” This is what they said to Christ. And Christ replied to them, “The period of years of Satan’s power has been fulfilled, but other dreadful things will happen soon. And I was handed over to death for those who have sinned, so that they may return to the truth and sin no more, and so they may inherit the spiritual, incorruptible, and righteous glory in heaven.”

b. 16:17 Or new tongues; some manuscripts do not include new.

Matthew 24 is all about Lord Jesus foretelling the future to come, in other words prophecy. The passage consists of, "Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple", "Signs of the End of the Age", "The Abomination of Desolation", "The Coming of the Son of Man", "The Lesson of the Fig Tree", and "No One Knows That Day and Hour".

Obviously, you have misinterpreted Matthew 24 to be about a time that was happening in the Lord's time. Some of those things He foretold has not happened yet, it is still a future event to come.

Has the Signs of the End of the Age happened? No, it's a future event to come.

Has Lord Jesus had His 2nd Coming into the world? No, it's a future event to come.

Furthermore, the false "Messiahs" will keep coming but will cease when the real Messiah returns, yes when our Lord Savior Jesus Christ returns in His 2nd Coming. Why not too long ago we had a fella claiming to be the "Messiah". Does the name David Koresh of the Branch Davidians ring a bell?

You know the guy who was allegedly molesting young innocent girls at Waco.

And so, no doubt at all we will have many more false "Messiahs" coming out of the pit holes when the Signs of the End of the Age unfold in the future.

We Read in Scripture:

Signs of the End of the Age

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. Matthew 24:3-4 ESV

We already know about one false Messiah leading his followers of the Branch Davidians astray.

Again, the Christian Holy Bible consists of the Old Testament which is the Old Covenant and as well as the New Testament which is the New Covenant. And as far as the Christian Ministry GotQuestions is concerned they follow and support what is written in the Scriptures of the Christian Holy Bible. They do not make up their own doctrines, they are basically a Protestant Ministry and so they are regarded as a highly reputable, well known Christian Ministry.

My thread is about the Christian religion, and so one should not be alarmed that I am promoting as well as defending Christian doctrine.

Again, the Bible consists of the OT as well as NT and again I repeat:

Usually in the Bible a generation is around thirty years long or the people living during that time. We have to consider context when we read "generation" in the Bible.

You didn't thank me for my post but because I'm not a snub like you I will not behave like you.

Ok thanks trev for your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it. And you can have the last word but don't expect me to respond to it if you do take the last word. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done here, I have made my valid points. I don't engage in senseless back n forth debates, because it's just a senseless exercise in futility.

 

That must mean that God planned these deaths 4 billion years ago. He obviously knew what would happen. Man didn't stand a chance. God created an unstable world on which men, christian or not, were doomed to die. And that's your loving God?
And original sin was an idea first mooted in the 2nd century CE. It's just another Christian idea. Jews accept than man is born free from sin, and are responsible for their own sins in life. To which I subscribe. Please think for yourself.

 

What is senseless is your quoting of scripture by rote. You simply can't answer any points anyone offers regarding the Bible. You have made no valid points and answered no valid points made by others. Good luck with your next venture.Let's hope it is nothing to do with the Bible as your GotQuestions see it.

 

That's your opinion. I know that God is real and that he lives. It isn't my belief or my creation. It is simply true. And I don't care about the liars, deceivers, imaginary Gods, religions, unbelievers, doubters, naysayers, or the philosophies of men. I am reconciled to the truth.

 

What is truth to one is not necessarily truth to another.

 

God gave me proof that he lives. He gave it in spirit. So I can only tell it in word. I don't know why God has been so charitable towards me, to pour his peace, like milk and honey, into my heart and spirit, to sweep the table of my soul to the edges, laying down my obstacles with charity rather than with wrath, to fill my mind with light, showing me in vision the clouds of heaven open and the outpouring of his spirit on his servants, and allow me to recognize and remember his spirit. I don't know why he allowed me to see that my life is in him, but it is.

And thru it all, he made no condemnation of me. But by the power of his virtue and divinity, I am constrained to put away my sins and my life according to his excellence. I look to God as I am able, that bye and bye I might return to him the bounty which is his. I'm not ashamed of Jesus Christ. Or I should say, I'm not ashamed to put away my pride and dignity in deference to his honor. He has gone below all things, putting away everything of himself, even his life, for our retrieval. In essence, he has raised us from the dead to the glory of the Father. It was his mission, and he is splendid. Should we not praise him? We praise the swift, the strong, and the victor. There are none greater than Jesus Christ.

 

Some people really love calling the Jesus character a liar. They say that he is full of BS when he plainly said:

Matthew 15:24 (ICB) = "Jesus answered, “God sent me only to the lost sheep, the people of Israel.”"

Matthew 10:5-6 (ICB) = "5 These 12 men he sent out with the following order: “Don’t go to the non-Jewish people. And don’t go into any town where the Samaritans live. 6 But go to the people of Israel. They are like sheep that are lost."

 

You obviously have not studied the Bible stories beyond what is written. The Jewish preacher is made divine by Matthew and Luke misusing the OT, and ignoring the laws of Rome and Jewish custom of the day in their Nativity stories. Why do people accept what is written without seeking confirmation or real facts behind the words. It's beyond understanding the intelligent people just accept things without actually confirming things.
Mitt has left us for the same reason. Refusal to accept the truth behind the Bible stories. He could not answer through blind belief.

 

I understand that. God was before I knew of him. Now I know better.

 

By the visitation of his spirit, I know that God lives. By virtue of his divinity, I know that mankind is fallen and in need of retrieval. Knowing that God lives, then he is our creator and only source for our redemption. Knowing by his spirit in vision that the LDS Missionaries are his servants, then I know that the testimony of Christ in the Bible and Book of Mormon is/are true. How accurate or perfect the scriptures are is irrelevant. But that they point us in the right direction is the key. And they point to Jesus Christ. His grace is sufficient to cover the shortcomings. What is nearest to the journey is the call to faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. These are the first principles of salvation, just as there are basics to science and everything else. The foundation must precede all else. And Jesus Christ is the cornerstone.

 

The Jesus character was born the king of the Jews and he died as the king of the Jews. Why do you want to be one of his subjects if you are not a Jew?

 

So you reject every other persons vision that doesn't agree with yours.
You've been well indoctrinated. Good luck.

 

This is quite the web of fallacy injeun .. starting back to front.

1) even if you knew a God existed - that would not tell you this God was creator and/or source of redemption - Non sequitur fallacy
2) You have no clue why mankind has fallen .. if mankind has fallen .. and certainly not by virtue of some divinity.

and last "Visitation of the Spirit"

So a Jinn visited you .. and by this you know God lives ... OK .. I can buy that ... but you have no idea which God it was ... no idea what the identity if the spirit is .. and no idea whether or not you made it up all in your head for that matter but... even if you didn't .. and the visitation was real .. you still do not know the source of that visitation.

The Bible says not to consult with spirits .. of any kind .. "Holy or otherwise" .. not that you would have any idea the difference anyway.

How do you tell the difference between a "Holy" spirit and an "unholy" spirit Injeun ? Answer --- You Don't Har har har

Did you think Sataniel is going to show up with a red tail and horns my young apprentice ? .. did you ?!

 

You are the one with the unsubstantiated belief .. You yammer on some God .. but can't tell us which God you are referring to. You talk about a covenant .. covenant between who .. which God ? You don't know, so who is the one with the unsubstantiated belief

Who is this God you are so ashamed of Brother Mitt .. Is this how you let your light shine ?

Very True Brother Trevor .. Some down the dark path of deception have gone .. presenting deceit as truth .. running away from the Truth of the Messiah .... covering up the light.. turning the land into darkness

 

This statement is not any different than a statement made by someone who killed his entire family because "God told me to"

 

I recognized and remembered Gods spirit of peace and holiness when it came, independent of religion or scripture to which I was a stranger. Since then, I came across this scripture spoken by Jesus Christ himself:
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28
Jesus Christ's words are essentially the spirit of my personal testimony. I recognized and remembered his spirit as he knew me in heart, mind, and soul. So who else shall I follow? Though the world is brimming with confusion and deceit, I'm not confused or misled. The glut and turmoil of the world is not my God, counsellor, or benchmark.