Does not matter if he did or did not. He bet on games he was involved in, which with zero room for debate results in lifetime ban, a rule that every player in the game is fully aware of. He knew it, felt he was above the rules, and is now simply paying the mandatory punishment. Besides, why would anybody believe he didn't bet against the Reds? He is a complete scumbag and pathetic liar. He lied about every aspect of this from the beginning, only changing his story when it became obvious even to him that nobody was buying it, and he needed to come clean to have a chance. His first story was that he bet a lot on sports, but not MLB. Then he admitted to betting on baseball, but not on games he was involved in. Now he says he bet on his games, but only to win. So sorry, not choosing to believe him at this point. Especially coupled with the fact that Dowd stated that if the league had not called off the dogs, the investigation would have put the last nail in his lying coffin. He had evidence that Rose bet against his team, but the ending of the investigation stopped him from finalizing the evidence. http://nypost.com/2002/12/12/rose-p...ed-prober-he-likely-wagered-against-the-reds/
You are certainly entitled to your opinion but those of us who saw Maris play will readily disagree with your assessment. Maris's defense was only surpassed by those two greats I mentioned above and won the Golden Glove once - his great play in RF saved the World Series win for the Yankees in 1962. He was a seven time All Star, his HR record lasted longer than Babe Ruth's, was MVP twice, led the AL in fielding percentage twice and NL once, was an excellent base runner [he had been voted as North Dakota's greatest football player of the first half century], and Hall of Famer Mickey Mantle said Maris was the best all round player he ever saw.
And yet, 'those who saw him play' deemed him completely unworthy of the Hall and Gold Gloves. Maris' defense was surpassed by others, including Evans and Suzuki. Him being a 7-time all-star is not accurate. He was selected to it only 4 times, but it was during a brief period when they played two AS games in a year. . Agree about his baserunning, and I do think he was an underrated defensive player. However, the simple fact is, his HOF resume is not strong. Quick question: I am confused about your comment about 'greatest ND football player of the first half century'. He never played football beyond high school, and was not a standout at Shanley until 1950-1952 (the 2nd half of the century).
A slight mistake there on my part, thanks for pointing it out - indeed he played in the 50s. I knew several people from North Dakota who saw him play and they agreed he was the best of that era. As for Evans, that was a different era. For his time only Clemente and Kaline were better at RF. But was a 7 time AS as there were two games in his era. Overall, his accomplishments make him HOF worthy. We'll just to agree to disagree.
well if pete rose doesnt belong in the hall then neither does ty cobb.Cobb intentionally tried to injure people sliding into second base with his spikes up in the air. thats assault.You do that in college,you get kicked out of the university but professional sports are so corrupt,they allow anything. most people i talk with all the time agree that pete rose being banned is a joke,that he should be allowed in.Its not like he went out and murdered someone or used steroids.The guy inspired me to play baseball is and work hard.he has paid his dues. If Ty Cobb is allowed in,then Rose should be as well. plain and simple. speaking of which? this person almost got it right here. This was obviously written by a black guy who is a Giants fan who cant stand to hear the truth that his hero Bonds was a cheater. Funny how he forgets to mention Mark Mcguire is not in the hall either because he also cheated. the article need to be changed to if they wont allow rose in,then cobb needs to be banned from baseball as well. http://rev-elution.blogspot.com/2014/03/throw-ty-cobb-out-of-hall-of-fame-if.html
There is a rule about coming in spikes high now. I don't believe that was the rule then. What are you supposing. We ban all athletes that play rough be taken out of the Hall? Lots of players were and are known as "dirty". Plenty of them in the Halls of their respective games. There is no moral equivocation between what Rose did, did after caught and how he played. And Rose didn't cheat, he bet. Which was against the rules of conduct not play. Those of you that think Rose belongs, really need to think about what cheating is and what lying is and what rules of conduct are.
again that doesnt address the fact that Cobb intentionally tried to hurt people.playing rough is one thing but intentionally trying to hurt them is criminal.major difference there.duh.
Cobb was an aggressive player - and there was a story told about him that he sat on the steps of the dugout and was polishing his spikes, and everyone thought he was sharpening them. Nobody liked Cobb as a player, but he was sensational, and sliding in high or not, there are no records or reports that I ever heard of that reflect he put an opponent out by spiking him. As a baseball player, Cobb was magnificent, and is in the original group put into the Hall of Fame. As a person, he was a mega millionaire - owned most of the stock in Coca Cola at its first public offering, and was a financial genius, who died rich and hated. He also was an admitted racist and hated blacks, so as a person, and as a player, nobody cared much for him, but they couldn't deny his ability. Performance put Cobb in the HOF in the original selection's. The next best player in baseball statistically wise is "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, banned for life in 1920 for accepting money from gamblers. They never considered him for the hall, because you have to be a member in good standing with MLB for election into it. Jackson isn't, and neither is Rose. What part of lifetime ban don't you understand? Pete Rose invalidated his on-field performance by his off field illegal activities of betting on his own team to LOSE - that was part of the investigation, but Rose decided to sign and accept that lifetime ban from MLB, without admitting to betting his team would lose. He was in the position to insure, through pitcher selection and on-field managerial decisions during a game, to make his team lose, and gain his gambling monies. He had dozen's of bookies, and people running bets for him. He didn't want that information in the public record - so essentially, he copped a plea of association with known gamblers - and betting on games - and a lifetime ban, without the info regarding betting on the Reds to lose, going public. Sports are not fair. Roger Maris isn't in the HOF. Bonds and McGuire won't get in until the writers make them wait to "allegedly" punish them, or MLB is going to alter their statistics, and reduce them by 1/3 for the official record. That will still leave them statistically as HOF shoe-in's, but not at the top of the lists of players already in there. Hank Aaron will get his HR record back, Roger Maris' 61 HR's record might be reinstated at the top of the list, if they take 1/3rd of Bonds statistics away from him. Pete Rose in the Hall? No. You do that, you can't suspend anybody else in the future. Steven A. Smith's diatribe about Rose already serving 19 years of a lifetime ban and needing to be forgiven doesn't wash - it was a lifetime ban, period. Perhaps after Rose dies, the Veteran's Committee might put him in, but they won't give him the satisfaction while he is alive, besides, there isn't any particular interest or groundswell of support to put Rose in anyways. We all have got used to the idea he was a cheat despite a great playing career, and can easily live with it. Joe Jackson has been dead for ages, and nobody has brought up his eligibility for the HOF - because he cheated. The idiot Rams abandon Los Angeles, the media capital of the world, for tiny St.Louis. The idiot owner of the Baltimore Colts - Robert Irsay - a confirmed drunkard, now dead but his son has the team - pulls 25 18-wheeler's up to old Memorial Stadium in Baltimore in the middle of the night, and 24-hours later, the legendary Baltimore Colts have morphed into a pale imitation of themselves as the Indianapolis Colts. The idiot owner of the Cleveland Browns, drawing 80,000 fans a game for decades, moves them to Baltimore to become the Ravens, and the very next year they win the Super Bowl. The idiot owner of the Quebec Nordiques NHL hockey team moves them to Denver and two years later they win the Stanley Cup. The idiot owner of the Oakland Raiders, a legendary team in silver & black, Al Davis - now dead, moves them to Los Angeles, wins a Super Bowl - and moves them back to Oakland ????? Who moves a Super Bowl team? The idiot owner of the Houston Oilers moves them to tiny Nashville, Tennessee, where they make a 1999 Super Bowl appearance, and miss winning it against the transplanted St.Louis Rams by 1-yard on the final play. The National Hockey League disallows 397 goals because a player was inside the crease where the goaltender is supposed to be protected during the 1999 season, and the Stanley Cup goes to the transplanted Dallas Stars (from Minneapolis), when Dennis Hull, a foot and 1/2 inside the crease scores a gold in the third OT against the Buffalo Sabres to win the Stanley Cup. Call was so bad the league called out Wayne Gretsky-Bobby Orr-Phil Esposito-Rod Gilbert for a public press conference to explain how Hull wasn't in the crease, despite video and photographic evidence that he not only was, but dragged the puck into the crease with him, than shot it over Dominick Hazek's shoulder for the winning goal. So.........I could go on, and on, and on, about things being unfair in sport - the Miami Heat in the late 1990's with great NBA teams, loses three straight playoff series' to the N.Y. Knicks on the final second of the game, three straight years. Why Pat Riley's hair didn't fall out, amazing. We abide by, accept, and get used to unfairness, bad luck, stupid luck, bad officiating (check the 2001 Ohio State victory over the University of Miami in triple overtime in the Rose Bowl for the National Championship), when the referee two feet from the final play says the play stands, and 20-seconds after the play is over, and while the Canes' are celebrating - the referee 15-yards away from the final play, throws a flag, and disallows Miami's victory. So, we can and have, and will live on without Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame, and the HOF isn't any less for not having him in there. They already have the bat, the ball, his glove, photos of him bulldozing over Cleveland's catcher in the All Star Game, etc. Plenty of Pete Rose material there, so everybody knows his record and performance as "Charlie Hustle." The reason he doesn't have a plaque on the wall like Ty Cobb does, is because Rose was a cheat, end of story. Nobody really cares about him.............
its unfair for sure.Just look at how the cheatriots,the spoiled rich brats of the NFL get special treatment in the NFL other teams dont get.They are judging Rose by his character so if Rose is judged by his character,then Cobb needs to be banned as well. Rose lack morals but his play on the field just like Cobbs play on the field,warrents him being in the hall of fame. Fred Roggin on his radio show also made the very good point that if Rose is banned from the game,then so should Bonds,Mcguire,Sosa,and Clemons because just like Rose betting on games affects the outcome of a game so does using sterioids. No way would Mcguire,Sosa,and Bonds have set all those home run records without steroids and we now know why Roger Clemens was such a dominant pitcher for so many years. I used to compare him to Nolan Ryan as the greatest pitcher of all time,now its a no brainer.Ryan wins easily hands down because he didnt cheat.
You have written quite bit there so I will only address the Cobb matter. There is no question that Cobb had been a racist and a trouble maker. But let's understand one very important thing: Cobb changed. Cobb raised money for charities that benefit black college students. Article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/43506-ty-cobb-was-not-a-racist Ok. So he wasn't perfect. Nobody is. Heck, Saul of Tarsus was a convicted mass murderer. Today he is known as St Paul - the city I live in was named for him. No question that Cobb was overly aggressive in his time. But he was no worse than the rough necks in the Baltimore Orioles of the 1890s. It was all part of the game. And his vicious hatred of blacks in his younger day is no secret. But again, he changed. He should be remembered for the good he did so that others may learn from his example.
Off the top of my head, I can name THREE better right fielders than Maris...and that is without playing in a park with a dinky RF! That being: Dwight Evans, JD Drew, and Shane Victorino.
I repeat myself = Maris was the third best defensive RF in his era. Still confused or is that finally clear enough for you?
Intentionally trying to hurt somebody is not punishable by banishment/exclusion from Hall. Betting on games that you are involved in comes with that specific penalty, and every player that suits up, including Rose, knows it. - - - Updated - - - No, they are not judging Rose by his 'character'. They are judging him by his violation of rules that came with a set punishment. Period.
well the MLB is f ucked up that they allow someone to intentially to hurt someone and get in because thats criminal so he still needs to be banished in a perfect world which this is not.
No, what is f ucked up is some scumbag, who knows the rules, and knows the penalty, thinks he is above it, violates it, lies repeatedly about it, and people still sniff his balls and support him. By the way, could just as easily be said that Rose intentionally hurt people, but you seem to have no problem with that.
I never once saw rose slide into second base with his spikes pointed in the air intentionally trying to hurt someone. You are obviously a Cobb worshipper who refuses to see what criminal he was.
All of his records should be expunged? What does the fact that he bet on baseball games as a manager have to do with the over 4200 hits he got? He should have been suspended for a couple years and fined before being reinstated. He did far more to promote the game of baseball for decades than to hurt the game by his compulsive gambling. His gambling had no real negative effect on baseball.
I never once saw Cobb truck a catcher at the plate in an All-Star game, when he could have easily scored by sliding, and in the process caused serious injury. You are obviously a Rose knob slobberer who refuses to see what a criminal and complete lying scumbag he was and is.
I knew you would bring up the all star one up in your desperation.lol easily slid and get in? comedy gold. this apple guy thought the same thing as me.great minds think alike.lol So what, honestly as long as he didn't bet against his team I am fine with it. But I am not one of those stuck up baseball purists that think people should still wear suits to the game. I believe Ty Cobb tried to intentionally tried to hurt people while playing but he is a baseball Icon. I just don't get it. http://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/pete-rose-was-betting-as-a-player.14916/ those pics also show Rose was clearly unhappy that fosse was hurt when that happened.I remember when i first saw that pic of Rose looking at Fosse that my immediate thoughts were he was very concerned that Fosse got hurt as bad as he did. Cobb never gave a $hit if he badly hurt someone.
Frank Robinson, Rocky Colavito, and Johnny Callison were at least as good as Roger defensively. Roger was a great ball player but didn't have the numbers to get into the hall. He needed to have another 7-8 great years.
[video=youtube;j3ogGiX9FNA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3ogGiX9FNA[/video] 0.39 in is what he was about.Pete was good.
They didn't have All Star games when Cobb played. What Rose did to Ray Fosse was just good hard baseball. That's the way the game was played up until they pussified it a couple years ago. Any catcher will tell you that was a clean play including Ray Fosse. For you to try to denigrate Rose for that play shows that you don't know much about baseball.
