Pew Research- worldwide majority view homosexuality and abortion as immoral

Yes completely. Did you see where I posted the definition?

Nobody is saying you don't have the right to your opinion, justthat you arequite obstinate in your opinion, and prejudiced against the opinions of others.

Prove it.

Enlighten us oh brilliant one.

I once climbed mount Everest while doing a backward hand stand.

What propaganda?

 

Who cares what you see?

What you consider valid is irrelevant.

Prove it.

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Prove I am intolerant devoted to my opinions. Prove that I have prejudices.

 

The definition of bigoted could as easily apply to those who support homosexuality as well. It seems many of them only accept their view and anyone who disagrees with them is either a homophobe or a bigot. This is just more of an attempt to silence those of us with valid arguments against accepting homosexuality.

 

Sorry but pop idols are not exactly people we should be taking super seriously in my opinion. I don't know why you do.

Quite frankly no one knows how we come to figure out our sexuality, it could be a variety of factors including nature vs nurture, but who cares anyways? My point stands, people should not have to face discrimination for choices that harm no one.

Since when is the individual obligated to do anything for society? They already pay taxes, why should they have to do anything else as free persons?

Do you feel ashamed for denying people equal rights under the law?

What agenda???

You all talk about the 'gay agenda' all the time but I have yet to see any real explanation as to what that agenda is.

You mean the common sense to allow people to live as freely as they want to so long as they do not harm nor infringe on the rights of others?

 

You have just shown your intolerance and prejudice. I have e very right to be skeptical. More people should ask the same questions I have. More people should be skeptical instead of giving in because they are tired of the debate or they want to avoid the name calling and attacks by those who support homosexuality. People have a right to their opinion.

 

some of them I am sure, but since you said the shoe fits me prove it. [/QUOTE]It seems many of them only accept their view and anyone who disagrees with them is either a homophobe or a bigot.[/QUOTE]I don't think people who disagree are bigots or homophobes. I have said as much several times.

I haven't seen you produce a single argument against homosexuality, let alone a valid one. I have seen you refer to it as perverted behavior. But I have not seen any proof that it is indeed a perverted behavior. I am willing to entertain that notion should I see any reason that you say that.

 

I never claimed to take any pop star seriously. I have looked at scientific studies and tried to find a reason to support homosexuality. There are none. I don't know where you get the equal protection stuff at. People have equal protection under the law.

 

I don't have to prove anything because you prove it yourself.

Well if homosexuality isn't a natural born trait then it is nothing more than a perverted behavior. Sorry that you don't like that but facts are facts.

 

How about moral and ethical reasons then? Why do you need Scientific reasons specifically?

Not really.

 

How so? What prejudice, point it out in my words.

Indeed you do.

What questions and why sould they ask them?

Why should they be skeptical? Prove anybody gave in for the reasons you listed? Could it possibly be that some people have a different opinion or are all people that disagree with you giving in?

You keep repeating this I don't know why. Nobody said you don't have that right. People have the right to call you names for your opinion, also.

 

Perversion, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. It is entirely subjective. What may be perverted to you might not be for someone else, in fact it might be perfectly normal for someone else.

 

Moral and ethical reasons? That is interesting. You may be on to something can you explain further? What moral and ethical reasons are there for supporting homosexuality?

Equal protection under the law can be looked at different ways. I know how I see it and I already know you won't agree with me.

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People don't have a right to call names on this forum. Maybe you should read the forum rules.

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Thanks goodness you understand that. So if I say something is perverted it is my view.

 

Well the LGBT rights movement first and foremost battles against the stereotypes and prejudices regularly spouted about them on a daily basis, such as the idea that most homosexual men are prone to pedophilia. This myth is constantly being brought up and pushed forth by those against anyone who is homosexual to try and make society view them as a serious danger to their children. This is a tactic often used by people who wish to propagate fear and disgust towards a minority group. What this ultimately leads to is instilling fear and disgust towards that minority group which puts them in serious danger of persecution which can entail things like assault, abuse, and even murder. That is probably the number one reason to promote tolerance, education and understanding of a minority group. For example, I already laid out a situation similar to this one in this thread regarding a religious faith known as Bahá'í. Bahá'í is a minority religion in Iran and there the government regularly persecutes and murders the Bahá'í. At the same time they instill fear into their people by spreading propaganda and lies, essentially saying that they are a danger to people's children and that they are murderers and terrorists. None of it is true though and all that it has done is forced these people to live in hiding and in constant fear of their lives.

Now having a religion is a choice right? You think homosexuality is a choice as well. But do you think that people should just give in to persecution like this and go against what they believe is right for them? Is it moral and ethical to treat people this way? To ostracize them and persecute them for years and years and continue instilling fear into society until finally it gets to the point where the masses hold no objection to the public execution of these individuals?

That for starts, are some ethical and moral reasons to not only support tolerance of the LGBT community but to also prevent what may lead to further persecution of them for what they believe is right about themselves.


I would elaborate further for you but I am getting a bit sleepy. I had a long day and we had a death in the family several days ago and I have been pretty depressed and sad today. So I will probably go after this post.

And you are more than welcome to your opinions, I just hope that you will start to understand the damage that you do when you proclaim that certain minority groups are perverts, deviants, abominations, monsters, pedophiles, child molesters, sickos, etc. etc. etc.

Now I am not saying you have said all of these things towards homosexuals, but I have seen a lot of people say these things about them and these labels simply do not fit most homosexual people. But it seriously harms them all in the end.

Hatred only begets more hatred, fear only more fear, ignorance only more ignorance, and lies only more lies, until it all simply boils down into a pot of a mess like Iran is in and the persecution of the Bahá'í. I would be devastated to see people in my family (several relatives who are gay/lesbian) and my friends be persecuted and be driven into hiding because the majority views them as immoral deviants that are a danger to people's children. They should not have to live in fear nor should they ever be victimized or persecuted for their personal choices which harm no one.

I doubt you will listen...but it needed to be said.

Good night.

 

Thanks for your response. It is refreshing to get an honest opinion that isn't an attack on me. I have been wondering lately where Putin came up with his idea about "protecting the children" when the controversy of gays came up at the recent Olympic games in Sochi. That does seem to be an outrageous claim and I wondered where it can from.

As far as the moral and ethical treatment of gays I guess it depends on how one views it. I am certainly against the persecution of gays and have been against that as long as I can remember. I just don't view things like not allowing gays to marry as persecution. My belief is that the government should not concern itself with who gets married but society has every right to decide this. The government should be neutral on the matter and should not try to legislate morality. It also should not try and impose homosexuality on society either. Society should decide.

Why? Because society will pay the price or reap the benefits depending on whether allowing gays to marry will be beneficial or damaging to society. The truth is that no one knows the long term effects of this. This is why scientific explanations can help.Understanding homosexuality from a scientific standpoint can take some of the mystery away.

But I understand that society has to sometimes allow something before it can learn whether or not it is a good thing or a bad thing. I wonder if people had known the long term effects of smoking would it have been allowed and even glamorized at times.

I don't know of any data on whether or not homosexuality is related to pedophelia. From my own experience I would say no. The homosexuals I have known throughout my life never showed any type of those tendencies. Unless I see proof otherwise I won't believe that.

If science had proven that homosexuality was genetic it would have helped me to be a supporter simply because no one can help the way they are born. It is too bad that the subject is so polarizing that it is difficult to have any real good research done on the topic.

Sorry to hear about the death in your family.

 

Are you even paying attention to ANYthing? You should take your post and read it back to yourself in the mirror. YOUR words:

YOU claim to have the only true morality, as you said it has died because YOUR version of morality is not being followed. And you say that not even half the country agrees with my morality. Well, then, if you're the majority, how is morality dead? But you're not. You're completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.





Well, gee, look at that. Both gay marriage and abortion are supported by the majority of the country.

And your claim about the majority of the world not taking us seriously because of those issues is also a baseless claim. Stop making stuff up and being a hypocrite by claiming to have the monopoly on morality.

 

Thank you for your polite response!

Now this is the civil discourse they were always talking about in the Rules and Regulations. lol

I can understand your view that marriage should simply be removed from the government altogether. I was also once of the opinion that this should become a reality, however I realize now that the government is more than likely not going to remove itself from the marriage issue since there are over 1100 legal rights and government protections tied in with marriage.

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/...ts-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples
http://www.freedomtomarry.org/pages/from-why-marriage-matters-appendix-b-by-evan-wolfson

I think that gay couples and their families (as they do have families of their own through surrogacy, adoption or artificial insemination) should be afforded these same legal rights and protections as well if they choose to marry. As far as I can tell there is no real reason to prevent them from marrying one another as the law currently stands now.


And thank you for the condolences. We're getting along. It's just hard when someone passes so quickly and unexpectedly, so much to do and discuss. It's like there is no time to grieve when you're constantly being bombarded with funeral decisions.

 

Actually, we've been convinced that we have to fight 'thinking' like yours... whatever it takes.

Get ready to rumble, because we (and our advocates) will.

 

I've found that homophobes and bigots are masters at doing that.

 

With "gay rights" supporters constantly comparing their situation to the civil rights movement of blacks they are sayin that this:



Is somehow equal to this:



I wonder how they ever came up with this and how do African Americans feel about gays jumping on the bandwagon?

 

I accept that position as well and have posted it countless times. I believe in God. I believe that he sent his son to die for us. I cannot provide concrete proof to anyone; it is my faith. It is the same with homosexuals. It's OK to want to believe that one is born homosexual and there may well be reasons that they need to believe that, much like some religious folks need to believe. But, I do not insult those who choose not to believe in God.

 

OK, First off, I have to ask why you chose two very polarized pictures to make your point? I could equally have chosen a picture of a bunch of black people doing something crazy, outrageous and, by the look of the picture you posted, fun juxtaposed to a photo of a gay couple boringly pushing a shopping cart around a store and captioned it: "what on earth do these two groups have in common?".

I'm not an "African-American" per se but I am black and I do now live in America. I think there's a clear history of institutionalized prejudice against the LGBT community but I think the greatest danger, especially to gay kids, is from their own families. I have experienced issues regarding racial prejudice in my own life but at least I had a safe home to come to. I never felt there was a threat of my parents kicking me out because I was black!

 

Perhaps these would be better image choices? It's very easy to find and select the most absurd picture, but I assure you there are plenty of people who march for gay civil rights who keep their plain street clothes on.

 

Must be a really good feeling to align yourself with totalitarian countries such as Russia & China, glad to see you are proud of that.

 

ahhh, so your morals are the measuring stick; arrogance in full display


ar·ro·gance
[ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Also, ar·ro·gan·cy.


it's amazing that because someone was born in a different country that you feel that your opinion is superior.

 

Really, then perhaps you can point out where I even mention morals in my comment or are you content to make up things and basically lie about the comments others make.