Pirates were not only some of the first Democracies, but also first Socialists

I was watching a show called "Black Sails" and the pirates were telling the captured sailors that the sailors they captured dont really want to fight they are just wage slaves to the Captain who made them fight, which sounded extremely socialistic to me and I wondered if its just maybe a left wing creator of the show or what, so I researched pirates a bit and believe it or not Pirates were indeed some of the very first Socialists ever, they were Democratic and shared the wealth, they even had workers compensation for injured workers and things like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy#Pirate_democracy
"Unlike traditional Western societies of the time, many Caribbean pirate crews of European descent operated as limited democracies. Pirate communities were some of the first to instate a system of checks and balances similar to the one used by the present-day United States and many other countries. The first record of such a government aboard a pirate sloop dates to the 17th century.[45]
Both the captain and the quartermaster were elected by the crew. They, in turn, appointed the ship's other officers. The captain of a pirate ship was often a fierce fighter in whom the men could place their trust, rather than a more traditional authority figure sanctioned by an elite. However, when not in battle, the quartermaster usually had the real authority. Many groups of pirates shared in whatever they seized. Pirates injured in battle thus might be afforded special compensation similar to medical or disability insurance.
There are contemporary records that many pirates placed a portion of any captured money into a central fund that was used to compensate the injuries sustained by the crew. Lists show standardised payments of 600 pieces of eight ($156,000 in modern currency) for the loss of a leg down to 100 pieces ($26,800) for loss of an eye. Often all of these terms were agreed upon and written down by the pirates, but these articles could also be used as incriminating proof that they were outlaws."

Very awesome interesting stuff indeed

 

Socialists are pirates. You're definitively on to something.

 

I am sure you also realized that there was no unified pirate ideology, each ship and captain were different. Sometimes pirates grouped together but never long enough for any sustained society to develop. In fact, the whole pirate era was very brief overall.

 

You still believe in the centuries old propaganda that all pirates were evil monsters with knives in their mouths eh?

Of course not, but the fact remains most were wanted to do what they want and not work as a wage slave for the captain. As a pirate, they are equal and free and can vote, they are not all monsters.

 

One only has to look at the "Robin Hood" fable to see how socialists would rationalize piracy. Taking from people who have and giving to people who don't is purported to be a central tenet of the faith. Everything just goes haywire when they fail to realize exactly when the application of their ideology diverges from the spirit of the ideology.

 

Most pirate ships ran on a democratic share basis. Outside of battle, all major decisions were put to a vote. Each member of the crew had a vote. While in battle, the Captain of the ship was supreme. The movie pirates, where a Captain owns the ship is BS. The Captain was usually elected, and would then appoint the other officers.

Profits were shared among crewmembers mostly equally, with the Captain and officers getting higher shares because of the extra work their positions involve.

Most pirates groups were also not independent. They were licensed and protected by a single nation. They plundered ships and coast towns belonging to their home nation's enemies, and were allowed safe port in any harbor belonging to their home nation. There were some independent pirates, however.

 

Many Pirates were not those kinds of people, but they were captains who had a Maequee from a government that sponsored them. This was to raid enemy ships and towns to weaken the competition.

But hey, Socialists are nothing more than thugs and pirates who lie cheat and steal anyway, so the analogy is a good one.

 

So Robin Hood is a Villain in your eyes? What did you think of him when you were younger? Did you always seem him as the Villain?

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To both of you, those are whats known as "Privateers" not pirates exactly, but sure one mans privateer is another mans pirate

 

So Socialists get credit for creating a Democratic system of checks and balances even before America and Europe? Finally, we are getting the credit we deserve!

 

My views often change as new information is made available. It's the price of wisdom.

Idealists, by definition, attempt to promote the implementation of a fantasy that only exists as a conception of how they think things should be; in defiance of the way things really are, or in some cases, were.

Who better to win over with fairy tales than children?

Of course, I've yet to see an idealist that truly lives by their own ideology. I guess that's the result of the interference of wisdom too.

 

That depends what region you are referring to which validates my point that there was no unified pirate ideology. The pirates that worked out of North Africa were far different than the pirates that worked out of South America.

There were pirates that worked for nations, there were pirates that worked for "corporations" (the East India Company was notorious for hiring pirates), there were captains who ran ships or multiple ships with an iron fist, and there were democratic pirates. There really was nothing in common among them, it depended where you were in the world.

 

Here are Socialists who live by their ideals,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
"The MONDRAGON Corporation is a corporation and federation of worker cooperatives based in the Basque region of Spain. At the end of 2013, it employed 74,061 people in 257 companies and organizations in four areas of activity: finance, industry, retail and knowledge.[1] Mondragon cooperatives operate in accordance with Statement on the Co-operative Identity maintained by the International Co-operative Alliance. At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between executive work and field or factory work which earns a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns no more than 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in his/her cooperative. The wage ratio of a cooperative is decided periodically by its worker-owners through a democratic vote.[21]

Noam Chomsky has said that while Mondragon offers an alternative to capitalism, it is still embedded in a capitalist system which limits Mondragon's decisions:[36]
“ Take the most advanced case: Mondragon. It’s worker owned, it’s not worker managed, although the management does come from the workforce often, but it’s in a market system and they still exploit workers in South America, and they do things that are harmful to the society as a whole and they have no choice. If you’re in a system where you must make profit in order to survive, you're compelled to ignore negative externalities, effects on others."

 

Did you mean to contradict yourself in the very same post?

 

In some sense, the point is no matter how much we try to live by our ideals we live in a Capitalist world and in order to survive we must make concessions. We cant live as Communists in a non-Communist countries, just as Fascists cannot live as Fascists in a non-Fascist country etc, at least not to their full potential of course.

 

Most notable pirates WERE privateers. Black Beard, Cooke, etc... There were called pirates by countries they didn't work for.

 

Communists can live as communists in a capitalist country. Many have tried that. They all failed of course. But it's still possible. just go out with a group of like minded people and form your own hippie commune. See how long that lasts.

 

Yup, as I said, one mans pirate is another mans privateer.

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A big part of communism is sharing natural resources by nationalizing things like the oil industry, how are we supposed to share the resources when we are not entitled to any of them and they are all owned by wealthy elite oligarchs? You fail to see the larger picture, whether or not you do it intentionally is a different question.

 

Modern pirates are different. The ones out of Africa and Asia are usually working for a warlord, or are slaves to one, being forced to work with pirates to protect their familes. They usually have no official ties to any nation, so they are not really privateers.