POLL: When should the USA liberate Iran?

Why would you doubt it? Do you think the Iranians embrace Jews, Christians, other religions they might disagree with?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1997/iran/Iran-05.htm

Jews

Approximately 25,000 Jews live in Iran. More than twice that number have left the country since the creation of the Islamic Republic, driven to emigrate by several factors, including fear of persecution in a militant religious state in which official opposition to Israeli policies is often expressed in anti-Semitic language. The governmentmaintains that it protects the religious freedom of Iran's Jews. There are synagogues and recognized religious leaders. Like other non-Muslim minorities, the Jewish community elects its own representative to the parliament (majles). Although religious minorities are free to vote in presidential elections, they are not permitted to run for the presidency.

Information on the treatment of Jews in Iran is difficult to gather, owing in part to the apparent preference of community leaders not to publicize instances of mistreatment, if and when they occur. The organized community tends to publicly voice support for government policies, for example in denouncing Israel.

Generally speaking, Iranian Jews are not individually persecuted because of their religion. However, in cases where a Jew is prosecuted, such as the case of Hedayat Zendehdel, a convert to Islam brought to trial in 1996 on a vast array of charges including conspiracy, arms trafficking and espionage, the Jewish identity or origins of the defendant have been highlighted in a defamatory manner. For example, a commentary in the official daily newspaper Resalat concluded, let "Zendehdel be a symbol of the continued disgrace of the homeless Jews."43 He was executed.

 

I gotta say this is pretty tihin evidence that you have presented
It acknowledged lots of ignorance and provides a single example who may well have had issues other than being jewish. I am pretty sure hrw was many many other countries given a stronger critique. I could present that info if you like

You ask some questions of me. Like do i think iranians embrace jews. Well chris, there are several tjings to say. It is not a question of what you or i surmise is likely to be true. It is a question of what is the supportable record. Which i willl get into. But at this point I suggest to you that you seem to be a nice. Person operating on a lot of assumptions and less actual research
K
Nect i will point out that there is a subdtantial difference between not embracing a person and persecution surely you see that is true. It is not for me to show embrace, but for you to show persecution

I will separately post information supporting my view

 

Real answer: When the U.S. gets a President with some balls.

 

feel free to invade any time you want, cause i am sure you have adequate balls to handle the job

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Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Khomeini protection

Iran's Jewish community is confronted by contradictions. Many of the prayers uttered in synagogue, for instance, refer to the desire to see Jerusalem again. Yet there is no postal service or telephone contact with Israel, and any Iranian who dares travel to Israel faces imprisonment and passport confiscation. ''We are Jews, not Zionists. We are a religious community, not a political one,'' Yashaya said.
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html

 

Judaism is among the oldest religions practiced in Iran and the Biblical Book of Esther contains references to the experiences of the Jews in Persia. Jews have had a continuous presence in Iran since the time of Cyrus the Great of the Achaemenid Empire. Cyrus invaded Babylon and freed the Jews from Babylonian captivity. The history of immigrant Jews to Iran goes back to more than 3000 years ago, during which they were part of a society which included adherents of many other religions such as Zoroastrians, etc.,

 

My source is the Human Rights Watch. I think they are a pretty reliable source.

 

Yes? And what makes you think YOUR source is so reliable? Like I told you, my source is the HRW. So, you mention they have 11 whole synagogues and 2 whole restaurants . . . what does that supposedly prove?

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Like my link said, twice as many Jews have fled than have remained because they reported religious persecution.

 

so follows is a kink to a longish article on all migration from iran

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iran-vast-diaspora-abroad-and-millions-refugees-home/

the closest they come religious persecution is FEAR of persecution
Finally, another population that fled in the initial phase were members of religious minorities, such as the Baha'is, and religio-ethnic groups, such as the Jews, Armenians, and Assyrians. Anticipating persecution, a disproportionate number of these marginalized populations left as soon as cracks appeared in the Pahlavi regime.

it turns out that lots of people want to leave iran because of the economy
and it is perversely an advantage to be a jew in iran because it is politically easier to arrange to leave because of presumed persecution... and actually quite a few of those Jewish emmigrees chose to come to the usa, not Israel... largely because of economic and educational opportunities


i could go on posting similar material.... near endlessly

many in this country make broad assumptions about iran based upon statements of their former president, the nuclear issue, residual tension from the hostage crisis , support for Hamas and false conflation with isis .... assuming that jews in iran must be victims if egregious persecution. but as far as i can find, that is not the case

 

A kink? Maybe I don't want to read that then. Hee-hee!

That is a lot of bull. The Jewish people have reported being persecuted in Iran. Not to mention, Iran oppresses women, kills and stones them for being raped, and executes gays.

Also, their own citizens told us horror stories as much during their "spring" a few years ago, if you remember. Why are you defending this country? What's your agenda?

 

chris did you check my source?
are you SERIOUSLY questioning the validity of a link to the Sephardic studies org
REALLY? they are somehow anti jewish?

 

Did I say they were anti jewish?

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Iran is a horribly oppressive country that is run by insane mullahs who believe in the coming of a 12th imam. Did you know about that?

 

lwe are talking about religious persecution, not the other stuff
i am not saying they are saints,
but many places in the world are far from optimal
and we do not propose to invade them

 

you questioned the reliability of my source
on what basis?

there are lots of oppressive countries
russia, north korea pick a country in Africa
what is so different about iran that we should invade


hey, i do not like religious zealots either
but this is no case for invaision

 

I'm not proposing to invade them . . . I do propose that instead of lifting sanctions, as Mr. Obama would like to do, we enforce sanctions more strictly than we have in the past. You know, the reason why sanctions don't usually work is because of the Chinese. I've read some interesting articles about that. If you want, I can look for one of them . . .

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You questioned the reliability of my source. What makes you think the Human Rights Watch is any less valid than your source? On what basis did you question my source?

I never suggested we should invade Iran. I don't know where you are getting this from.

 

chris
read the thread title and your previous posts about invading iran, you need me to quote you?

and i am not questioning your source
i an questioning what YOU SAY it says
which is wrong

 

As I said, my comments were just facetious. Did you not read where I stated that?

Yes, sorry but I'm right. Jewish people have reported being persecuted in Iran. Do you deny that?

 

Approximately 25,000 Jews live in Iran. More than twice that number have left the country since the creation of the Islamic Republic, driven to emigrate by several factors, including fear of persecution in a militant religious state in which official opposition to Israeli policies is often expressed in anti-semetic language

so how does your quote support your point?

what i read is lots if people left for LOTS of reasons
not just what you say only

reasons Including FEAR of persecution, not actual persecution
l

 

That is not my quote. That is from the source which I linked you to. Again, why are you defending Iran and it's murderous regime? What's your agenda?

 

jewish people have been reported being persecuted in most every country
but that does not mean that there is systemic social or political persecution

jeez
lots of people are persecuted here in the usa p.... you cannot deny that either
i am arguing that jews did not leave iran because of systemic actual persecution
which it seemed to me was what you were alleging

once again let me say i am not endorsing abuses in iran.
i do think iran is being demonized
and that would not bother me
i mostly do not care about their feelings
but this sort of demonization has been a prelude to previous war hysteria
including this thread
and ThAT does make a big difference to me


and chris
that is my agenda
i do not want our nation to be swept up in a war fever

i think i am more in line with ron paul on this issue

 

Sorry, but according to the Human Rights Watch as well as the UN, there is religious persecution going on in Iran, and it keeps getting worse. Why anyone would deny this is beyond my comprehension. They have been recorded and addressed by many human rights organizations as well as the United Nations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-bandow/tehrans-fearful-muslim-fu_b_3286340.html

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Iran is not being "demonized." They deserve all the criticism they get. They've earned it.

 

l
actually
it was YOUR quote
here is full text

 

chris
once again i am not going over iran's entire hr record
just whether the jews in iran suffer from endemic and systemic religious persecution

also it is not a point to talk about what iran deserves
there are lots of nations i do not approve of
i am not sure why iran needs special treatment

but in any case
what WE do not deserve is another even more pointless war
the appetite for which is is fed by misrepresentation and propaganda

anyway chris
you asked about my agenda
what is your agenda
why not get all upset about north korea, or sudan, or a dozen other unpleasant places?

 

Saudi are Jew hating bigots. Shame on them - they profane the Koran with their hate for Jews.

Iran sacrifices in order to bring about some measure of stability in Iraq and has granted refuge to hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of refugees from all those wars.


The USA and imperialist Israel need to leave Iran in peace.

 

Iran lives in peace. We haven't touched them. So long as they want to exterminate Israel, they will be on everyone's radar.

 

No. That is what I quoted from the LINK. That is from the Human Rights Watch website, like I told you. Perhaps if you read some links, you would have already known that?

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Yes, they do. Jews have reported that they do to the Human Rights Watch organization. Are you saying they are lying and that Iran is telling the truth? Iran, the country that performs public executions of gays and stones women to death for being raped? Good Lord! What is wrong with you people?