POLL: When should the USA liberate Iran?

will you agree that it is a quote that you posted from hrw in support of your views

so it was note a quote from you
but a quote from a link that you provided?

and if we agree there
then i say that the link you provided supports my views not yours

 

How does the link support your views? Iran is on the HRW watch list because they routinely violate people's rights to practice their religion, rogue court proceedings and unfair executions. You are defending a monster. How disgusting.

 

could you please be more specific about what you are saying here

 

chris

you said this about your hrw link


Like my link said, twice as many Jews have fled than have remained because they reported religious persecution

your link does not say that
it says what i said
that lots of people have left for LOTS of reasons
including FEAR of religious persecution

it does NOT say that actual religious persecution was the reason why they left
or even that fear of fear of religious persecution was either the only or the main reason most left

 

regarding your reference to stoning

so if it is common in iran
maybe you have a point
if not
then i say that you are demonizing

here from wiki on capital punishment
the stoning section


Stoning to death was blocked as legal punishment by Khomeini's order in 1981.[37] In 2012 it officially was removed from the code and replaced by an unspecified death penalty.[25] In theory, it could still be used as a punishment because the penal code allows judges to impose sentencing according to "valid Islamic sources" and sharia punishments, although it is unlikely due to the fact it would contradict current Iranian civil and penal laws.[38]

Stoning is legal for "zina" (sex crimes). Many Muslim jurists in Iran are of the opinion that although stoning can be considered Islamic, the criteria under which it can be imposed as a sentence are stringent. Because of the heavy burden of proof needed to reach a guilty sentence for adultery the penalty is hardly ever applicable.[citation needed] The person could also be sentenced to be hanged rather than stoned.

Following vociferous domestic and international controversy over stoning in the early years of the Islamic Republic, the government placed a moratorium on stoning in 2002.[39] In January 2005, the Iranian judiciary spokesman Jamal Karimirad was quoted as saying, "Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time, and in the Islamic republic, we do not see such punishments being carried out", further adding that if stoning sentences were passed by lower courts, they were overruled by higher courts and "no such verdicts have been carried out."[40] In 2007 and 2009, Western organizations claimed the moratorium was broken in two cases for men being stoned for murder and adultery.[41][42]

In 2008 Iran's judiciary scrapped stoning in draft legislation submitted to parliament for approval.[40][43] The 2012 penal code officially ended the punishment of stoning in Iran.

 

regarding execution of gays
yeah it probably has happened
as has similar stuff happened in lots of other countries
but is it official govt policy

following from lgbt rights in iran wiki page


SodomyEdit
Sodomy (lavat) is punishable by death. The judge can determine the type of death, but in practice it is always hanging. The proof requirements are the same as for adultery and such sentences are very rare. If one of the consenting participants was under 18, the punishment is 100 lashes for the minor. If the sodomites are repentant, they generally receive a reduced sentence of 99 lashes. All convicted sodomites spend one year in prison in addition, and can be sentenced to more prison time at the judge's discretion. Few consensual sodomites are sentenced to death, but prior to 2012, both partners could receive the death penalty.On March 15, 2005, the daily newspaper Etemaad reported that the Tehran Criminal Court sentenced two men to death following the discovery of a video showing them engaged in homosexual acts. Another two men were allegedly hanged publicly in the northern town of Gorgan for sodomy in November 2005.[35] In July 2006 two youths were hanged for "sex crimes" in north-eastern Iran, probably consensual homosexual acts.[2] On November 16, 2006, the State-run news agency reported the public execution of man convicted of sodomy in the western city of Kermanshah.[36]


so yeah some conservative wackos in iran do crazy shyt
but is it wide spread or govt policy?

i do not see evidence of that
so again it seems to me that you are demonizing based on exceptional cases

you know, there is a lot of stuff that happens in this country
like do police kill unarmed black men in the usa?
some will cite those cases as evidence that police in our nation routinely kill blacks for no reason other than that they are black. we know that is not true. and i argue that the same dynamic happens in Iran...they have sone crazies who do really bad stuff, but is there evidence that this is government policy? i have not seen that evidence and you have not presented it

 

No, it hasn't PROBABLY happened. It has and does happen. They hang gays from cranes in public executions. You didn't even know that, and you are defending these monsters? Nice, real nice . . .

They also KILL women. Did you know that?

It's not rare, according to human rights watch organizations. Iran just doesn't record or report these things . . . why would they? They are a country that is into mass propaganda. They are really not much different than Nazis, only they (so far) are not trying to take over the world. That's only because they don't have a chance in hell against others with nukes and I imagine that frightens them into submission sometimes.

Here is what you are defending . . .

http://iranhr.net/2015/03/another-mass-execution-by-the-iranian-authorities/

 

chris

i know that iran tortures prisoners,
and have heard a brutal report from a prisoner

they also execute a lot of people
most they say are for drug charges
but who knows if that is the real reason

i am not, and have not portrayed them as delightful innocents

otoh, i have in good faith tried to look into a whole series of charges that you have made
religious persecution, gays, killing raped women, stoning, etc
and generally found your specific charges not to be well supported
note---above i have already agreed to charges regarding executions and torture

but in my mind, then there remain sone issues
why for example would you say the things that you said that were not well supported?
rape, gays, stoning, etc
for me this illustrates that you have been propagandized by stories intended to demonize iran
and not simply hearing the truth about this country
which, as i said, there is bad in the truth as well
so why is it required to enhance that badness?

what is the motive of the propaganda?
imo it is to create a public attitude that will either support military action
or to foster such suspicion and hostility that the usa/iran relationship spirals
toward military action through ever increasing mutual hostility

so this is not an end i want,
and therefore wish to have the criticisms of iran be at least accurate
this is not defending iran or the regime
it is me being careful that we do not get manipulated into a unnecessary confrontation

frankly, i do not feel that the executions and torture in iran validate a single american to fight and die

we are not the world police for hunan rights
i do not agree with iran, but do not want to fight them either

over all it seems to me that the fire of the iranian revolution is subsiding
their government is moderating
there will be a new generation of iranians for whom the revolution is remote
people who are more interested in their own lives and business
and imo it is to every ones advantage to let inflamed tensions subside
and that will not happen if our nation continues to treat them as the axis of evil
which i think they just are not
they are a country that actually opposes al queda and isis
and who can more directly counter these threats than israel can
or pakistan, or saudi arabia
and fir those reasons i do not want to puck an unneeded fight
that would immensely strengthen aq and isis
which i see as far greater threats, and enormously worse hunan rights abusers than iran

 

I haven't made those charges. That is the Human Rights organizations that make those charges.

I think you are dead wrong about Iran. Iran is run by crazy religious extremists who call themselves "mullahs." Iranians tried to revolt several years back. Remember that? A lot of those people disappeared.

They ARE an axis of evil. Not only that, but they are a thorn in the side of the entire world.

I am not advocating war either. I advocate for heavy strict sanctions and to use our "pull" to convince China (who we actually give AID MONEY to) to cooperate with those sanctions. The reason why sanctions don't work with Iran is because China and others basically ignore those sanctions for their own economic benefit.

Some top generals would disagree with you about ISIS. In the past, Iran has played "both sides" so to speak. They lie, cheat and use heavy propaganda.

Here is some interesting information for you . . .

http://www.clarionproject.org/sites/default/files/Iranian-Support-For-Terrorism.pdf

Here is a little excerpt from the link above . . .

The 9/11 Commission said it “found no evidence that Iran or Hezbollah was aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attack” but that further investigation was needed into the issue. In December 2011, U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels ruled “that Iran and Hezbollah materially and directly supported al Qaeda in the September 11, 2001 attacks.”13
The 9/11 Commission reported that 8 to 10 of the 9/11 hijackers traveled through Iran between October 2000 and February 2001. They took advantage of an Iranian
agreement to not stamp the passports of Al-Qaeda members going through the country. The travel of the hijackers appears to have been coordinated with Hezbollah, with one even boarding the same flight to Beirut as Hezbollah’s operations chief, Imad Mughniyah. The judge was also persuaded by testimony from three Iranian defectors, including a former intelligence officer named Hamid Reza Zakeri that defected in 2001 and claimed to have foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. Zakeri provided alleged top-secret intelligence documents proving that Iran and Hezbollah helped orchestrate the attacks.

 

Iran does not to exterminate Israel.

But bigoted Saudis do. They even gave support to al Qaeda during 9/11 and are enemies of peace just like Israel.

 

I love you asked "when" and not "if"

Answer: when America will have a crazy president!

Iran isn't Iraq, it's bigger, more mountainous and more populated than Iraq. America cannot invade it.

 

Looks like the world is going to liberate the Iranians from their yoke of sanctions, even if Bibi and his radical Likudniks all have hissy-fits.

 

Iran needs to be liberate from American and Israeli terroristic imperialism.

 

Last time I checked,
The US made a coup happen in Iran and toppled a democratic elected government to install ruthless Shah. And when Iran got rid of the American puppet who terrorized their country, the US supported that maniac of Saddam Hussein that bought western chemicals to turn them into WMD's against Iran. And when that went on, the US still supported that maniac. And ever since Iran won their independence and sovereignty from the US, the US remained exceptionally hostile towards Iran for not being their colony.

And last time I checked the US and not Iran, turned Iraq and Afghanistan into total fail states.

 

The DIPLOMATIC attack........ should begin soon..... and perhaps should be initiated by the potential "bad cop" Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper???!


http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=418381&page=6&p=1065224050#post1065224050
Could we Canadians STOP the Iran deal?

 

You just made the various war mongers here cover their eyes, and shove their thumbs in their ears, screaming out NA NA NA NA NA, so as not to see or listen to what you say. They are like the school yard bullies, and enjoy being a bully. Of course most will have others to do the bullying for them, as they sit in their comfy chairs sipping a brew, and enjoy the fireworks show on the pc or their tv. Entertainment for these folks is gun fire, explosions death and destruction, which is also on their fav video games. We have a death cult here in America. As long as its not their own death of course.

 

I wonder why the OP was banned.

"Liberate" as in invade, I suppose. That's a pretty stupid euphemism.

When did Iran last attack one of its neighbour countries? When did Iran last invade another country? When did Iran last mobilize its army to start an invasion of whatever kind?
There's a lot of silly rhetoric coming from Teheran, but we have that stupid rhetoric here in the western countries as well.
Iran is not a threat to humanity. The real threat is idiots who see a threat literally behind every corner and think they have to interfere with other, sovereign countries' domestic affairs over and over and over again and in doing so are not only responsible for hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of deaths, but also create massive hostilities that they then can sell to their public as "threats to our national security."

 

Two interesting things about this thread that was created in January.

First of all the nuclear talks succeeded as the agreement reached will ensure that Iran's nuclear program is limited to peaceful purposes far into the future and that based upon this agreement the distrust between the US and Iran can be dramatically reduced in the future leading to other agreements of mutual benefit. The OP intentionally failed to address successful negotiations between the P5+1 and Iran and those negotiations were very successful.

Next is the problem with the title because who are we going to liberate Iran from? The Iranian People? Iran is not an occupied nation where the people can be liberated from the occupation of a foreign power. Palestine is occupied by a foreign power but not Iran. If we wanted the US military to liberate a people then we should focus on liberating the Palestinians from the Israeli occupation.

 

When should Israel, with it's fantastic air force, army, and nukes, liberate Egypt?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/29/us-egypt-aljazeera-idUSKCN0QY06R20150829

 

When should Israel liberate Saudi Arabia from its repressive elite royalty?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/30/us-yemen-security-idUSKCN0QZ09P20150830

 

i will just go ahead and claim that people like you are a thread to humanity. maybe the better question is how do we get rid of you guys?

 

US closes embassy as opposition to both Russian and US hegemony seems to continue to spread.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/09/04/8-police-killed-as-tajikistan-ministries-raided-by-islamists/

 

Why should we "liberate" them at all?
What exactly would attacking them do other than killing more of our own young men?
Agenda 21 - kill as many people as possible?
Why are we playing this stupid game?
If the US wants to be a world leader why don't they set an example by showing the human species how to finally grow up and be sane and sensible. Humanity has the arrogance to declare itself the most intelligent species on Earth and yet they act like brainless idiots.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*) any concept of negotiations or the fact a deal has already been made to bring about peace for the next 5-10 years, just invade with ground troops and bombs right now. That will show them not to threaten to become a nuclear power! 'MERICA!