"Pope Francis says ‘ideological Christians’ are a ‘serious illness’ within the Church

I like this Pope!

He sounds real and very much in tune with the real meaning of Christ's message. In many ways, every time he says something, he says exactly what I have been wanting to say for all those years to the hyper religious, self-righteous "Christians" of all flavors who believe that dogmas and ideologies that are man made are what being a Christian is all about!

A few more of those messages from Pope Francis, and I might consider trying to be a practicing Catholic again. . .well. .almost!

 

That is a great message from the Pope. I'm wondering what the catch is.
None the less those words are worth heeding. Maybe we should celebrate.

 

Yes, this message gives me hope. But from some comments I have read in the press, and more comments (some pretty nasty) from members of this forum, I am afraid that some "Christians" see his words as heresy! I even read a comment wishing that "Pope Francis be taken to heaven soon!"

How sick can that be!

 

Sadanie, perhaps if we substitute Pharisaical Christians for "ideological Christians" it might all make more sense,
or at least one could recognize the leaven of the Pharisee in those so adamant against those wise words from the Pope.

 

This pope understands that if they do not adapt they will vanish.

 

Before you get too excited over what seems to be a liberal pope, you may want to ask yourself what he means by "faith." It still means faith in Jesus Christ as the redeemer. I'm pretty sure he still believes that unless you repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, you will go to hell. How do you like him now?

 

"He also claimed Christians who lose faith and prefer the ideologies are “rigid, moralistic, ethical, but without kindness.”

Good post, sadanie............

 

A lot.
Unlike yourself he sees the faith as being about love, not fear.

 

Nope! I disagree! And this Pope has made it clear in the past.

People of all faith, and people of no faith are not excluded if they live a life in line with their conscience and mindful of not harming others.

Jesus christ is the great prophet whom a whole christian culture rallies around, and that is great. . . But He is not the one excluding those who have other cultural basis fort heir faith . .. Too many "Christians" are placing more faith in cultural, ideological, man made dogmas than they are in what really matters: ONE GOD, no matter what cultural based image and interpretation is imposed on HIM/HER by humankind limitations!

 

Well that particular member has since been banned from here - And his general line of posts where erratic to say the least, no matter what the subject at hand

 

To tell you the truth, I don't even remember who made that ridiculous, mean remark. All I remember was the nauseous feeling it gave me to realize how some "Christians" can turn a faith based on love and forgiveness to one of sectarism and hatred!

But. . . I'm glad I won't run across that kind of extreme bigotry and stupidity from that poster anymore. . . .whomever that poster was!

 

Well maybe the Pope's words and deeds will inspire him to tackle whatever demons are part of his life

 

That's fine, YL...as long as he's not attacking gays and telling women their uterus is State property once conception occurs....

i.e. the usual "Christian" agenda we see around here.

 

"He said the Church does not want to keep the door shut and the key in its pocket."

Does this mean he's going to open the secret archives to the public?

 

I'm sure you folks have been over this, since it is old news. The Vatican is controlled by the Pope. It wouldn't have issued a statement that he didn't approve. No one in the church steps on his toes. I've read his comments about atheists. I've also read the Huffpo article that got it all wrong. I've read the follow up statement from the Vatican. If you truly believe he is saying you don't have to accept Christ as your Savior to be saved, you are sadly mistaken.

 

I couldn't agree more with him on this one. Christians need to be more like Christ than Ronald Reagan. Those who place ideology above faith, even though their ideology is at least in part rooted in faith, will never be the salt and the light Jesus commands us to be.

I heard pretty much the same sermon from my pastor yesterday. Only his was more along the lines of Christians' consumerism over consecration.

 

Much of Paul's writings are to churches that were misguided and corrupt, and only within a few short years after their inception. While the secularists celebrate what they perceive as a weakness of Christianity (Christians correcting other Christians); we celebrate the accountability. It's as old as our faith.

 

Well, actually Ronald Reagan wasn't like 'Ronald Reagan'....as Governor of California, The Gipper signed one of THE most libeal abortion laws in the country.

 

No, it wasn't a liberal law by today's standards by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, no pro-choice person today would support the law. While it's true the California law opened the door for thousands more abortions, that was a lesson learned by Reagan and it made him solidly pro-life.

You should look at the language of the law and then decide if Reagan was acting as a pro-choice minded person or not. The law permitted abortions only if a hospital board determined the mother's life was in danger, and in cases of rape or incest. Does that sound liberal to you?

 

Actually it sounds REPUBLICAN....before Roe and the Moral Majority, when the GOP supported Planned Parenthood and even liberalized abortion laws. Yes "later"...as in when he was courting Religious Righties, Reagan had his "epiphany" on abortion.

But this doesn't detract from no less than "National Review" calling it...."Reagan's Darkest Hour"

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/223437/reagans-darkest-hour/paul-kengor#!

BTW, despite his post-Gubenatorial record and what he said as President....he also nominated Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy to the USSC as President....both of whom have upheld Roe.

 

Who knows? And it is unclear whether those "revelations" would be helpful or damaging to the world. . .not just the Church. Would you feel that it is necessary to make "revelations" that might create worldwide chaos, or more religious wars, or just have no positive reason to be, but only negative consequences?

By the way. . .I don't think he was talking about 2000+ years of secrecy. . .but about allowing all people of good faith (hear that? . .GOOD FAITH) to be welcomed in the Church, whether or not they meet the narrow definition of "Christian" as imposed by the most bigoted among Christians!

So. . .why not wait and see, and in the mean time give credit where it is due?

 

And I believe you are WRONG. I believe that, today as always, whether or not a Pope says so, a person living his/her life with good will, good conscience, and with care not to harm people, but with care to help and respect others is the basis of a good life.

Whether or not one believes in "heaven" or "hell," (I don't. .I believe we make our own heaven and hell on this earth), a good person, living a good life, whether he/she believes in Islam, Christianity, or nothing at all will have accomplished all that is expected of him/her by God.

 

Is there not a relationship between the church and its members? Would you trust anyone with thousands of years of secrets? By saying "….the Church does not want to keep the door shut and the key in its pocket." He was simply referring to improving their numbers not to full disclosure and honesty.

In trying to find ways to prevent ones demise there is a tendency to do whatever it takes. It's just funny to me that it takes a decline in membership to start saying things that make sense and are actually worth something.

As the saying goes, one good deed is not enough to redeem a church of a lifetime of wickedness. And as someone who sees the very foundation of religion as it's reason for failure I don't see much use in it either way. That being said, the more they let go of their stridency the less those with the most conviction will have to hold onto which will allow for differing opinions and the easier it will be hopefully to get people to see reason.

 

In fairness to YL, and so we aren't guilty of some of the same tactics used against us, he's right. You aren't responding to what he said, which is the Pope has done nothing to contradict the conventional theology of salvation. The way his comments regarding atheists was reported was misleading, and he was only addressing the attitude that they should be embraced with, not the truth of their convictions.
You are commenting on whether salvation theology is true. YL is simply stating, correctly, that the Pope has not backed off from that belief one iota.

 

This is not the way I understand Pope Francis's words. On the contrary, he clearly stated that Chris redeemed EVERYONE, that includes ATHEISTS. . . .he never said that Christ redeemed everyone BELIEVING in Christ. . .just EVERYONE.

Now, whether or not Pope Francis is willing to open the Catholic Church's dirty laundry bag from the last 2000 years is still unknown. . .and I was questioning if it would even be wise or helpful! If it is not helpful to the world, if it is only destructive. . .I wonder what the motivation would be to make those revelations.

Just the fact that he acknowledge that "killing in the name of God" is "blasphemy," already puts a very different light on the crusades and the Spanish inquisition, and a LOT of the historical evils committed by the Church. . .or in the name of "Christianity."