Pros and Cons of the mRNA vaccines, let's hear it

I've offered both. And sorry, but lives matter. It isn't illogical to think so.

 

Did you come to my county ?
We have a lot of vaccination tourism, because the idiots in my county will not vaccinate. We are stalling out at 45% vaccinated.
By the way be happy to have the bioNtech/Pfizer, it is the best of all those vaccines.

 

If you're here in Colorado, you probably know about what a wearisome, pain in the ass it is to simply get vaccinated. Oh, they SAY that it's oh-so EASY -- that all you have to do is get signed-up, show up, bare your shoulder, and smile. The REALITY of that process, from uncertain start to inconclusive, unreliable ending is often very different....

One of our few bright 'points of light' in this dark time, a fellow Forum member with a great deal of useful knowledge named @CenterField , had recommended mRNA vaccines over those based on older immunization technologies, and now, after reading further, I'm glad that I ended up with Pfizer after all -- even though in my case, it was an accident....

Pfizer does appear to be leading the way in research toward more innovative solutions to an even better vaccine, which could include an ORAL vaccine by the end of the year or so: https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...-to-stop-coronavirus-could-be-ready-next-year

 

I am in the 4 corners area, Montezuma County.
It was easy and uncomplicated to get vaccinated.
Just called the Hospital hot line and got me my appointment. Even was able to choose between Moderna and bioNtech/Pfizer. Same for my employees, all are fully vaccinated

 

Yes, the mRNA vaccines were a huge success story, beyond our wildest dreams. We were expecting at best something like 70% efficacy if that much because up to the launching of the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines, no mRNA vaccine for human use had ever been approved and brought to the market in any country. So, new and unproven technology at the time... and surprise surprise, we got a huge efficacy of 95% and a very very low incidence of serious side effects (0.0008%). These are, then, among the best vaccines ever produced, for any disease.

Here in the United States we have these fabulous vaccines, safe and efficacious, made in America, and they are distributed to the population entirely free of charge. Everybody should be running to take them, and instead, we have conspiracy theories about them (no, they don't change your DNA and don't alter your reproductive organs, and really they don't have microchips put there by Bill Gates), and hesitancy to the point that in many places the vaccination rate is starting to stall due to low interest from the population. I just learned that in half the counties in Kansas they are returning the stocks they received because after they vaccinated the willing, nobody else is interested. This is a disgrace.

Meanwhile our excellent federal government (insert sarcasm here) has never made any TV/radio campaign to promote the vaccines and denounce the conspiracy theories. I subscribe to foreign satellite TV channels from a number of countries (to keep my language skills sharp regarding the foreign languages I speak) and routinely see the governments of other countries educating their population about the vaccines. Over here, zip, zero, nada, except for rare private sector initiatives, like an ad released by Google and another one released by Uber. These are good. I commend Google and Uber for them. But we need to literally flood the airwaves with a similar campaign, and the DHHS and the CDC talked of doing it, but no campaign ever took off.

It is a shame that we need Google and Uber to try to motivate the population to get the vaccines, while our government remains silent. We need some 80% of Americans vaccinated (even better, 85%). I am at this point absolutely certain that we won't reach this number. If we did, the outbreak would fizzle out almost completely and we'd be able to resume life almost as it was, and the economy would come back roaring. Isn't it what everybody wants? Still, pardon my anger, but the IDIOTS who don't want the vaccine will prevent this from happening (although they are usually the same people who keep saying that they want the end of the precautions and the return of the full economy - there isn't any easier way to achieve what they want, than getting 80% to 85% of us vaccinated).

If people only accepted the vaccines fully, to reach this 80% to 85%, two weeks after the number got reached, bye bye coronavirus, and hello concerts, sports with full stadiums, indoor dining, bars, and all the fun, as well as full employment and prosperity.

Why in the hell do we have a large proportion of Americans who will made this achievable goal, unachievable, with the virus remaining endemic in significant proportion and continuing to mutate in dangerous ways? Are we just stupid as a people?

Smarter countries like Israel, Singapore, New Zealand, etc., will achieve this goal and will jump ahead in their recovery, while we'll lag behind, with ongoing economic damage caused by the virus (curtailed life span, financial burden of treatment of complications, lost productivity), because our population includes a large proportion of IMBECILES who prefer to believe in conspiracy theories and junk science than in real science.

Pardon my rant.

 

Month after weary month, I have observed more and more often that your analyses, you commentary, your observations, and, yes, your 'rants' have been very interesting and VALUABLE to me, as one person. Please stay the 'course', @CenterField , and don't despair.

If even a skeptical, old ultra-right-wing Conservative like myself can see the light -- even if by accident, as it was for me with the Pfizer vaccine -- then there's hope! While I'm sure that the J&J vaccine would have been a good solution for us, I do now believe that in the 'long run', the Pfizer mRNA vaccine will be the better choice after all! And you advised me that it would be quite some time ago! Thank you!

Afterthought: We had our Pfizer 'Shot #1' four days ago, and afterward experienced location-specific, slight soreness in the 'shot'-arm only, and that lasted only one day. Now I am anxious to get the second shot and be done with this until at least November!

 

I'm not an anti-vaxer but a usual suspect from another forum posted this:

Obviously the title is a blatant lie. It is, however, based upon an actual journal article from what appears to be a legitimate journal though.

So there's one reason. Don't shoot the messenger!

COVID-19 RNA Based Vaccines and the Risk of Prion Disease
https://nationalfile.com/report-pfiz...tive-diseases/

REPORT: Pfizer Vaccine Confirmed To Cause Neurodegenerative Diseases – Study
(here is ther actual report https://scivisionpub.com/pdfs/covid1...sease-1503.pdf )

A new report has determined the Pfizer vaccine may cause Alzheimer's and other conditions

In a shocking new report on the COVID-19 vaccines, it has been discovered that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine may have long term health effects not previously disclosed, including “ALS, Alzheimer’s, and other neurological degenerative diseases.”

“The current RNA based SARSCoV-2 vaccines were approved in the US using an emergency order without extensive long term safety testing,” the report declares. “In this paper the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine was evaluated for the potential to induce prion-based disease in vaccine recipients.” Prion-based diseases are, according to the CDC, a form of neurodegenerative diseases, meaning that the Pfizer vaccine is potentially likely to cause long term damage and negative health effects with regards to the brain.

...

“The RNA sequence of the vaccine as well as the spike protein target interaction were analyzed for the potential to convert intracellular RNA binding proteins TAR DNA binding protein (TDP-43) and Fused in Sarcoma (FUS) into their pathologic prion conformations,” explains the report. TDP-43 is a protein known to cause dementia, ALS and even Alzheimer’s, according to Alzpedia. Similarly, the FUS protein is known to cause ALS and Hereditary Essential Tremors, according to the Human Genome Database.

The experiment done for the report was to determine whether or not these two harmful proteins embed themselves into our DNA, as an mRNA vaccine is expected to do. The report determined that “the vaccine RNA has specific sequences that may induce TDP-43 and FUS to fold into their pathologic prion confirmations,” meaning that both proteins have the potential to embed themselves into our DNA and cause harmful neurological diseases.

 

All BS and junk science by a known anti-vaxxer.

 

Very suspect source
J. Bart Classen - Wikipedia

 

Besides, older people like me are probably a lot more in danger of getting this virus than we are from losing our minds.

Hell, I don't doubt that at least half the people who post here are certain that I've lost my mind already!

 

Yes, I'll shoot the messenger. Legitimate source? Pfft... this is complete crap, by a known quack and anti-vaxxer.

So you're not an anti-vaxxer but you contribute to diffusing this crap??? Shame on you.

 

A newt?
Did you get better?

 

Profuse apologies, Centerfield. I know how much diligence and care you put into your posts.

It was late and I assumed Patricio's request was semi-irony and replied as such, a little mischievously, not considering for a moment that this would considered to be dissemination! I assumed readers would be familiar with my posting history as well. I should have worded my post more carefully so as to not come across as careless or intellectually lazy.

.

I know nothing about the author but at a lay glance it appeared to be a loose theoretical paper proposing casual links based on cobbling together loose associations. This raised immediate alarm bells in my mind, even not being familiar with the area of study. I assumed any intelligent reader would read this the same way... However, it did obtain publication in a legitimate journal so the paper obviously passed some kind of authenticity standard. The small, unsettling thought I have is if there is zero merit to the author's speculation and he is a "known quack" how did it obtain publication? Does this reflect a drop in publication standards in microbiology? Or perhaps it is par for the course to run with a few speculative pieces for flavour in this journal?

 

I feel like we've discussed some of these same issues over and over again.

It's almost getting to the point that I'm wondering why I should even bother responding, since there will just be three more threads that will pop up about the same thing.

In a quick nutshell, the mRNA vaccine is a little bit less effective than conventional vaccines, safer in some ways (and probably safer overall), but potentially less safe in other ways. Most of these potential downsides haven't actually been proven (which of course wouldn't be surprising even if they did exist).

So far the fatal blood clots that have been seen haven't been caused by the unique nature of the mRNA technology, but rather the other component of the vaccine that is there to trigger an immune response.

 

So I did some digging. To answer my own question:

Microbiology & Infectious Diseases published by SciVision Publishers, shows up in Beall’s list of predatory publishers

https://beallslist.net/

I don't know how they specifically ascribe a publisher as predatory, other than: "This is a list of questionable, scholarly open-access publishers." Nor do they give any further explanation for that journal's inclusion. Nevertheless worth mentioning.

Probably of most note is that M.I.D doesn't appear to be indexed in PubMed. So it is probably considered a poor quality journal with an inadequate review process.

I wish I didn't come down to trust, but unfortunately there is no way for an educated lay reader such as myself to understand and critique the science that the author cites in his article, without at least a few weeks of background reading.

 

One of those big drug companies was warned that their Corona Vax krap would cause blood clots and death, but ignored it. They only care about appearances and profits, and perhaps the depopulation schemes of the Richman.

Perspectives on the Pandemic | "Blood Clots and Beyond" | Episode 15

 

I was very much pro-vaccine.

My side affects have been bad and lasted for about 3 weeks so far, but not life threatening. I have had a persistent rash that resembles a reaction to poison ivy or shingles. As I type I am on my second round of steroids that are not seeming to be working anymore.

My wife has had flu like symptoms and vertigo for over a month. She has lost consciousness twice, once while walking in the back yard, and once at work - something turned her off like a light and she was out for a couple minutes. One of her coworkers has had a similar reaction as her. We all took the witches' brew they call Pfizer.

If I had it to do over I don't think I would not get it or I would choose a different vaccine, and my children will not be getting it at all. Most of my extended family had no effect, but we are "one in a million" twice in the same household. I think the number of reactions is being grossly under reported.

 

No, it is not illogical to think lives matter. Most people think lives matter, but thinking lives matter does not mean that one must pretend that death is not inevitable, does not mean that one cannot understand that death is the natural conclusion/result of life.

But in public discussions/debates, ignoring facts while relying on 'all lives matter' is a type of appeal to emotion. Yes, it's a nice warm and fuzzy feeling, but it is not a sign of analytical thinking regarding the events of the world we live in.

 

No...

 

One side effect of the second shot was a desire to take bigger bong hits.

 

Apology accepted, but what makes you think that this journal is reputable? Much the opposite. This journal, published by Scivision Publishers, is in Beall's list of publishers of predatory journals, and is said to not perform real peer reviews. Don't think that just by having a fancy title, the journal is reputable. You wouldn't find this kind of junk science in The Lancet or The New England Journal of Medicine and the such. And yes, Dr. J. Bart Classen is a known quack and anti-vaxxer, and is in the habit of suing vaccine makers and filing for bogus patents (for profit). Methinks you should verify your sources a bit more, before diffusing them.

 

So impressive!

NOT!

No understandable sound, with unidentified "big drug companies" who only care about profits while ignoring warnings for (almost non-existent) blood clots, fewer even than 1 in a million utterly unverified problems.

Fail.

 

Thanks, the simply answer might be my limited exposure to academic publishing! I only have two papers - that are in the psychology field (adolescent brain development). I changed careers and moved to being a clinician. Being early days, the Prof. took care of all the journal correspondence for our lab and I was too preoccupied to learn the ropes.

I believe this is exactly what happened. At a glance it resembled a major journal. Assuming so, I didn't pay undue attention to the author's motives.

Actually in parallel I stumbled across Beall's list (mentioned a half dozen posts or so above). I was aware that some journals have a better reputation, however didn't realise that some are considered unreliable or disreputable. I'll be more alert now.

 

I too had the Pfizer vaccine. I had no reactions of any kind. And frankly it worried me and at first I wanted J&J vaccine. Then they had problems.

Anyway it is all over for me now. I am vaccinated successfully.

The Trump vaccine did the trick.

 

Haha the one that is not Trump is the one you got. Pfizer developed this vaccine independently of Operation Warp Speed.
I do praise the OWS for the Moderna vaccine. But Pfizer would have had its vaccine exactly the same way and exactly in the same timeline if OWS had never existed.
But I'm glad that you got your vaccine.