I say 'a god', because, last time I researched this, there were literally thousands of gods, many of which pre date the god of the Abrahamic faiths. And, for all I know, we could well have a few on here who believe in a god, one that is not of the Abrahamics. Anway, my genuine question to you is to do with forgiveness. Please speak from the perspective of the religion you know best. It's a benefit that I did not disclude anyone's god from this, since you may all have a differnt take on it, depending on the god you like. I wish to speak of the matter of forgiveness. Now, I can only really speak here from a vague knowledge of Catholicism, but they are, superficially at least, rather partial to a bit of forgiveness, indeed, even the most heinous of acts are often rather simply dealt with, by merely confessing the sin to god (through prayer, but one would have assumed he would know it, anyway). Having confessed the sin, you are then asked to say a bunch of stuff, Hail Mary's etc, and god, or rather the Priest, he deems that for your confession and by asking god for forgiveness, you are forgiven. How does that tally with your grasp on the idea of forgiveness? But doesn't god, at least the Christian god, demand that we also show others forgiveness? After all, if god himself can find it within himself to forgive this person for what it is they have done, then surely it follows that his people should also forgive that person their actions, if they ask? That is my understanding of it, but in practice, it seems not to play out that way. Some of the most unforgiving people I have met, have also been some of the most religous, Christian specifically. Isn't that out of step with what your prophet Jesus taught? Or did Jesus preach that you should be bitter, and not forgive someone, no matter how sincere they are? Moreover, what if the action is something esp wicked. The Biblical model seems rather inflexible, not allowing for different levels of forgiveness. For instance, you may be able to forgive something your partner has said, in an arguement, heat of the moment. You may find it harder to forgive someone killing your child, on purpose. And if this man is to be forgiven and absolved for such a thing, then by that rationale, if he is REALLY forgiven, he should one day be trusted in an environment where he could do that again? Sorry - that just demonstrates to me how poor a grasp the Bible had on the human psyche, but I guess it was written by relatively primative men, not their fault. There are some actions that it would be outright madness to forgive, let alone forget, and downright dangerous. The curious thing is, that the more you read of the OT god, the same one that Christians worship today, the more you find that he was actually the most unforgiving of ALL, often waging death on those, for the smallest of things. Which makes his command for us to be forgiving to others, somewhat two faced, no? Jack
I am Catholic, and I hope you don't mind if I correct, or rather clarify, some of your misunderstanding concerning forgiveness and the Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation (often called "Confession" which is really only one part of the process). They can be simply dealt with when there is real contrition, but--being truly contrite is sometimes an obstacle for an individual. To God, through individual prayer joined with the prayer of the Church in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and God's instrument, the priest. That is merely a token act of penance. It denotes the sincerity of your contrition. It actually is a practice that is healing to the individual. A truly repentant person WANTS to do something to make amends, and penance is therapeutic to the soul in that way. In the Catholic Church, it is a community activity in that the prayers of the individual are joined with the prayers of all the Church--those in Heaven, Purgatory, and still living. That's right. And, often it is very hard to do. And that is true also, and quite sad, IMO. I dunno what the stats are, but I'd venture it's mostly just the Christians you know. American and Western Christianity does have a "high and mighty" taint to it, but that's the practitioners and the cultures--not the tenets of the religion. Yes--it's true that "you know them by their fruit" (to paraphrase), but try to cast a very broad net before you judge the religion based on some temperamental people. Yes. No. The Bible tells you to forgive--not to be stupid. You can forgive someone, but that doesn't absolve them of their responsibility for the consequences of their action. You are not understanding it correctly. The last bit of your post seemed to indicate that you actually just wanted to criticize God rather than get an answer to a sincere question....but..... I forgive you.
confession is a method to observe or face your own sins to a preacher[quoite] But doesn't god, at least the Christian god, demand that we also show others forgiveness? [/quote] this is the greatest lesson of jesus (to me). He rendered that each can forgive versus a church or preacher forgiving you, claiming that that represent god. that is the greatest time to forgive; when someone comes clean to you directly. going to the preacher is nothing compared to a person who harms you and big enough to face the error directly. Then a true for of forgiveness, repentance and humility to the damage having the greatest impact for all. for example; a kid steals a candybar... the best method of correcting the issue is not whooping the kids but. The best way is to take that kid to the store, face the owner and sweep the floors for a day. i always thought in cases of murder, the family has the right of disposition And think about it: what would you do? My harshest penatly is on cases of rape; i say put a glass rod in the winkie and break it (no mo rape from that idiot) People claim 'forgiveness is righteous' but i find that judgment is often just as. ie.... if you can take the BS and do not impose a penatly, then it may live into the next day, upon another person. The perfect example of that is lying. Look at what religions have done to this earth because people have come to accept it (false witness) and now the preachers are screwing children
But when when a person does that, and the other person either refuses to forgive them, or worse, takes revenge for 'wrong' that they perceive to have been done to them? Does that make them worse than the original wrong doer, who has, at least, sincerely asked to be forgiven?
