Quiz: Racism vs Discrimination vs Prejudice

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Mar 20, 2023.

  1. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    According to the op there is no such thing as race so it would be kind of hard for there to be racism if there's no such thing as race.
     
  2. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It's almost like we've never had a black president or any black people in positions of power....
     
  3. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Do you think there is possibly any racist actions that are possible by blacks?

    It's incredible that you'll make excuses for it if someone literally says that whites are subhuman you don't think that's racist.
     
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are millions of reasons why people do things. People can hire others because they are family, or because they are friends, or they like them, or she's cute, or they knew them in college, or they know their parents, .... millions of possible reasons. Here I use THREE of those reasons to illustrate the difference between racism, discrimination and prejudice. THAT's the topic of this thread. Not "All Possible Reasons why People Hire", like you seem to have interpreted.

    Next time you might want to take more time to understand what the thread is about before trying to derail it.
     
  5. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The premise that preferences constitute prejudice is a keystone distortion of the people promoting racism.
    Everything we do is bases on preferences- and because we are individuals as well as members of a society, the range of preferences and the reasons behind them are unlimited- and never illegitimate.
    If you don't like someone, for any reason- forcing any kind of interaction or acceptance in person affairs doesn't improve that, it aggravates it. If your preference prevents unsatisfactory situations- it serves a positive purpose in your life. If someone else thinks that is detrimental to their lives.... that is the fault of their belief that acceptance is owed to them, and over-rides the preferences of other people. In the current state of society- we are seeing people act abusively and aggressively towards other, and then resent the reaction as disrespect for them. To say the least, this is childish mentality- demanding to be respected for disrespecting others.

    When an individual fails to act as a responsible, contributing member of their society- they should be disrespected, because respect is an earned recognition of your qualities, not your existence; it is not an obligation, regardless of your color. And regardless of your deserving respect, others have the right to withhold that by their preference.

    When a group embodies irresponsibility and these same kinds of conduct, that group also may fail to earn respect in the eyes of others- and the decision remains the right of each individual, as their preference.
    Everyone has a right to determine what they will or will not bring into their lives. That list may include cauliflower, it may include offensive people, it may include little green men or red-heads or people with obnoxious hair styles. Anything- but that preference is personal. Can't be a political dictate of any kind.
     
  6. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand the post; I understand you intentionally limited the options to those serve your purpose of furthering your basic arguments, and excluding things you don't want to be considered.
    Your "poll" has three choices- of guilt labels.

    I don't think that was accidental. I'm just pointing that out to others; you can ignore it.
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Racism most definitely exists. It exists in individuals (Race Theory, example: white supremacists) as well as in institutions (Critical Race Theory) But in both cases it refers to advantages by the dominating ethnic group over other ethnic groups. So any form of prejudice against white, Christian (males?) is just... that... prejudice. This is the way it has been since the beginning of time. Right-wing media outlets that cater to white supremacists have been trying to change it for the last decade or two to appear as if there were such thing as "racism" against white people. If, in the end, they succeed in changing the meaning I for one will not have been part of it.

    Racism IS prejudice. However, it does not apply to mistreatment of the dominant ethnic group. So not all prejudice is racism.

    It's not me. That's how it's used. Ask anybody around you if they think that prejudice is a good or a bad thing. If you ask objectively (without any attempt to influence their answer), I bet the first instinct of at least 9 out of 10 native English speakers in ANY country will be to say that it is not a good thing to be prejudiced.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why does this sound like- you are only a victim of the crime if you are of a specific race? Because that is exactly what the message actually is.
     
  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly. To those that serve the purpose of illustrating those three things. ALL my posts are intentionally limited to the options that relate to the point I'm trying to make. Maybe next time you'll try to understand what that point is BEFORE you complain about there being other options that are not the topic of the thread. There usually are but, unless you find any relation whatsoever to the point I AM trying to make, they will remain irrelevant. But, to do that, you FIRST need to understand what the point is. Feel free to ask questions if it's not clear the first time.

    In this case, for example, you thought the point was about "hiring". when the point was about illustrating the words I defined. I could just as well have used many other themes like making a wedding cake or selling a house or a cop giving a break to somebody caught speeding, or a coach choosing their starting team... ANY choice an individual makes. I did consider several possibilities. This one was just the one I found easiest to explain.
     
  10. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When someone questions my writing, the first thing I do is examine my writing rather than blaming the other person for not understanding the point I am trying to make. Even though what I write might be clear to me, that does not necessarily mean it is clear to them.

    I recommend you do the same.
     
  11. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And- intentionally avoided any that would conflict with your personal prejudicial narrative. You're pushing the universal racist message. I can't see where you actually seek anything in the way of improving the understanding in society, anything that can benefit harmony or stability.

    Harmony is what makes a society come together. It can't be legislated, dictated socially or any other way- it all depends on conduct of self. Good character. Self-respect. EARNED respect. I support that as the long-term answer to today's issues- you apparently favor promoting disharmony. We disagree on objective and means of achieving them.
     
  12. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    For me, it has been a long while since I had biology, sociology, or even human anthropology while at the same time, the topic really didn't interest me. But I did think awhile at Golem's thesis in the OP before I commented and chose how one differentiates between racism, discrimination, prejudice, and preference. We all have preferences related to food, friendship, companionship, and so forth. And to me, I think most people are not prejudiced, which is what Golem is trying to argue that most, if not all, people are. However, when it comes to business, especially at managerial levels or in certain occupations, it is really about preferences on who to hire, not prejudice. And I don't think Golem gets that.
     
  13. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    1. I never argued racism does not exist. I just don't think it exists to the point in which you are arguing though. For me, I know people who are absolutely racist toward one or more groups. Their fathers were that way, they are that way, and their grandparents were that way. Oh hell, even my own maternal grandfather was that way for the longest time, the true "Archie Bunker" type. But at least I learned because I was curious more about the culture of other people and groups than anything else when I was a young lad. And I never took my grandfather's word for it.

    But the way you presented the statements and the answers possible choices you have left no room for maneuver. I think you are trying to show that everyone is prejudiced, racist, or discriminatory and they are not. That is why I gave the additional information in which one person had better communication skills and the other person had better networking skills already established. For a business manager, the preference will be either the safe approach, aka the one who had the established networking skills because the manager of the company in HR sees almost immediate profit or increased income whereas the one with better communication skills has a longer approach to achieve those same results. This is why you should not try to provide as little as possible but not too much detail if you are trying to establish whether a person is racist, discriminatory, prejudiced, or preferenced, in my opinion.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Three pages of debates, and only one poster thought the debate was about hiring people instead of about three words that I explicitly defined. The OP could not be clearer. I think the obfuscation by the reader is deliberate.
     
  15. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    3 pages of that means the OP is not clear, because its based on fake concepts
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    And, of course, to you "harmony" means black people accepting being discriminated against. Got it!
     
  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know. But you said I wanted to show it doesn't exist. Nothing farther from my intention. (You said " However, I think Golem is trying another attempt to show that Racism doesn't exist but prejudice does.")

    I definitely want no room for maneuver. I want to illustrate the three concepts in as narrow a way as possible in order to illustrate the differences. How they are like each other is clear. But the differences between them are not. So an extreme view highlights those differences.

    No! Everybody is discriminatory in the sense that I explain it. There is nothing wrong with being discriminatory. In fact, another name for affirmative action is "positive discrimination". And this is the reason why it's vital to show the differences.

    The fact that I used hiring as the example is purely circumstantial. This discussion is not about hiring practices. It's about discrimination\racism\prejudice. I could have used another example. As I explained to another poster, I could have used an example involving a wedding cake for a gay couple. And the point would have remained the same. But it would have taken longer to explain the examples. So I discarded it. I could have used (as it was my first impulse) an example related to hiring, another related to a wedding cake for a gay couple, and a third about a black basketball star. And my point would not have changed. I started doing that, but the post was getting way too complicated. And I wanted to make it as simple as possible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
  18. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where did he say that?
     
  19. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There you go again. Harmony means exactly what the dictionary says. People getting along, not trying to create trouble being responsible for their behavior and not abusing each other.

    noun
    1. An orderly or pleasing combination of elements in a whole.
    2. A relationship in which various components exist together without destroying one another.
    3. A relationship characterized by a lack of conflict or by agreement, as of opinion or interest.

    Unfortunate that you don't understand that, but not surprising to me.
     
  20. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Liberal playbook rule 101,164 - if you can't beat them on facts, just change the definition of the words until they match your narrative
     
  21. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    FALSE
    Racism assumes that the members of racial categories have distinctive characteristics that make them inferior to another race.
    Simple as that
    FALSE
    There is no such thing as systemic racism. Attributing racism to an entire economic and social system ends up blaming everyone, and no one, and provides cover for the few actual racists. The ones who claim systemic or institutional racism exist. If everyone in general but no one in particular is to blame, the few remaining actual racists among us are let off the hook.

    All the phrase (Systemic Racism) does is incoherently describes a society that is so little racist that no one can respectably advocate racism, yet so much racist exist that every part of it is soaked with racism, leaving us with the paradox of a racist society without racists.

    Its a phrase use to collect those who would propagate it without even being able to define it. Which makes it easy to find those who would assign it. There is no shortage of these types of people in todays political theater.

    FALSE
    Discrimination is an unjust and/or prejudicial treatment of people based on ethnicity, age, sex, or disability. No more, no less.

    FALSE
    Prejudice is a preconceived opinion that can be based on reason, experience, or nothing at all. I have a prejudice against black vehicles because they are hard to keep clean.

    FALSE
    Sorry, you don't get a pass on racism just because your black. This sounds more like something taught in a cult.

    All you have done here is try and set all the definitions and rules to your liking then get everyone to speak only within the bounds you define. But you do that in most of your threads. This is no different.

    This all sounds more like you have been absorbed into some political ideology that made you believe you have some insight on what everyone else should understand and practice as you determine. Pretty scary actually.

    If you even respond you will knowingly take my post out of context as you won't have the ability to address it as written. But that is to be expected as you have done in most post you respond too that doesn't fit your narrative.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
    GrayMan likes this.
  22. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    How about we stick to the original definitions of things instead of made up or social justice definitions?
    If we can agree to that, then we can discuss the rest.
     
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Harmony" is a great word. You can throw in "peace" and it's definition. Or even "happiness" ... many words. But they are meaningless unless you explain how. Your refusal to explain this indicates that my conclusion is accurate: the way you want to achieve it is by minorities (especially black people) just accepting being mistreated as their "fate", and not complain about it. So "harmony", to you, just means YOU being happy. Screw the rest!

    Your posts are characterized by being long and absent of any substance whatsoever. This one is no exception. If you think that continuously doing this is going to earn you any credibility, you are sorely mistaken. To achieve that, you would need real arguments.
     
  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    DEFinning said: ↑
    Golem is only using the word prejudice, to have a negative connotation,


    It is irrelevant that, without context, most people associate the word with its use in the negative sense, and I never said that this was not its most common usage (had you not abbreviated my post, I'd gone on to say that more commonly, one would see the words either bias or, strictly in the positive sense, partiality). Still, one can say they have a "prejudice" in favor of something, as in the following example:
    "I thought my child did the best, but I'm prejudiced."
     
  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    The definitions I list ARE the original definitions. Right wing media has been trying to change the definition of "racism". They have been doing this for the last few years to cater to the white supremacist portion of their audience. So right wingers who drink their kool aid might THINK it has changed. But it hasn't in the mind of anybody who doesn't follow this crap.
     

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