Quiz: Racism vs Discrimination vs Prejudice

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Mar 20, 2023.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The way we DETERMINE the meaning of words is how it's used by most speakers with an average level of education. This is why, in a live language meanings continuously change. We say that dead language like Latin, Sanskrit or Ancient Greek are "dead" because they don't evolve.

    Your example is obviously a figure of speech (metaphors). Like when somebody says "I'm all ears". Not intended to be taken literally. Metaphors are excluded from the above rule. Somebody saying "He's taller than a skyscraper" doesn't change the meaning of the word "skyscraper" when not used as a metaphor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  2. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps the stupidest thing anyone can do is blame whatever bad thoughts they have on some one else, and demand that those people fix them and make them happy.
    You can only change what is in your power, and if you refuse to take that approach- you have no power. You can't make me agree with you. I can't make you think logically.
    The situation is as if a person has an old bill they think is due them, and they will remain angry at everyone until somebody satisfies them- but they will never be satisfied, so it's foolish to try.... and doing so only embeds their faulty belief more strongly, increases their hostility and their demands- and insures their own life will be miserable forever. Any individual can have that problem, but the only culture I know that has it is the black culture. They have these problems because they cling to them and tell themselves their own conduct is controlled by whites, so they aren't responsible for themselves. No amount of "reparations" will end that, it will only increase it. As they continue to act hatefully, reject responsibility and act irresponsibly, the image of their culture will degrade- and they will continue to blame it on others. Why do they blame the American time of slavery on every white person alive today? Because they real culprit behind that slavery was the black African slave trading that goes back more than 100 years doesn't have money they can get their hands on. WHY did blacks in Africa tolerate a slave trade of their own people for centuries? They never ask that. Ever hear them address that at all? No. The fact that black slave traders were the source of black slavery in the first place is ignored. But the white child born last week owes them compensation for it. YOU believe that crap.

    We have ALL been mistreated. Various degrees, but all of us. The efforts to raise the black community up have been going on for a very long times. Many billions of dollars spent, vast special accommodations made made, exceptions and preferences at educational institutions, required in business and every place you can think of- and the response from the black community is crime, hate, and demands for reparations for what happened to someone else 200 years ago. Why? Because it's a lot easier than stepping up to the plate and joining as a responsible segment of society. Many of them do, and I deeply respect that- but few of even the best will recognize and address the cultural handicaps they impose on themselves. I've been a part of that effort and put in a lot, and you will get back- is contempt. You actually fuel their hostility by accommodating their claims of victim-hood. Because you accepted the responsibility to make them happy and failed, it's your fault. There hate and anger grows, and the more you throw at it the worse it gets.
    The bill has been paid.

    I wouldn't expect you to understand any of that. I have been personally involved in major efforts to improve the quality of life for our local black community. Doing that will get you- abuse and contempt without a shred of success. I don't take that to the black community demanding reparations, nor do I hold it against any black individual I meet- but I remain aware of the mental state of the culture, and will never support the ignorance of paying people not to be angry with you. The point where enough is enough passed long ago. It's a simple philosophy. No penalty because you are black- but no credit either. You get recognized for who you are and what you do- and if you make an unprincipled ass of yourself, that is how you will be seen.

    Post are long... because some people are really dense, and need a lot of explanation. Of course, those who have no intention of actually examining facts of the issues just ignore and complain about it. Goes over the heads of the short-minded. And they see no substance, because the metric they use to find it is deeply flawed, like a 53" long yardstick they never question. Everything comes up short.
     
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, Dear God! Another lengthy meaningless post. Why do you waste your time? Do you actually think ANYBODY in this forum would read something this long this meaningless?

    I don't GIVE A CRAP what the stupidest anybody can do is. If you can explain, clearly and succinctly (especially succinctly) HOW your goal you preach (harmony) can be attained, do so. If not... good luck with your thoughts!

    In the mean time, from everything you have said, looks like my conclusion that you would expect blacks to capitulate and just accept racial mistreatment as their "fate" is what you have in mind. Prove me wrong! Skip any personal valuations and the long lengthy trivial blabber.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
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  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course it's meaningless to you. It's like planes of thought and the capacity to comprehend. You're not on my level, I'm not on yours- and I'm grateful for that. .

    People can choose to work with others, or to be the constant irritant. Harmony is the recognition that getting along is always more productive than being a constant and abusive adversary. It's the way to create an environment that solves problems, where a hostile adversary one creates problems.
    That's a choice, and the only way it can be done. The right philosophy is to make the hostile adversarial position unacceptable. Socially, legally, universally- unacceptable. No traction. Off the table.

    That doesn't mean legitimate cause can't be discussed and problems solved, it's means you can't use your outrage as a bargaining chip. That- you fail to understand.

    I could answer in a much shorter fashion, but then I'd be on your level.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You got yourself into an argumentative jam, buddy. You have made it quite clear that your position is that you believe black people should accept being discriminated against so YOU can experience "harmony". Trying to make me the topic of the thread is not going to bail you out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
  6. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are the advocate of the problem, not of any solution. You expect thanks or accolades? Of course you do the only "intelligence" you recognize is those who agree with you.
     
  7. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no metaphor, in calling oneself prejudiced, when it comes to some evaluation, in which one's child is among those being compared to others. Perhaps you should look up the word "metaphor."


    I will save you the trouble, however, of researching a dictionary definition of the word that plays so prominently in the overall conceiving of your thread, "prejudice"-- for which you have been leaning upon your own, impromptu definitions:

    <Google Snip>
    Dictionary
    Definitions from Oxford Languages

    prej·u·dice
    /ˈprejədəs/
    noun
    1.

    preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
    "prejudice against people from different backgrounds"
    Similar:
    preconceived idea
    preconception
    <End>

    You are trying to limit the definitions of these words. While "prejudice" is most often used in a particular way, that is not the only way which it can be, and is, correctly used.

    So you are discrediting whatever idea you are hoping to promote, when you post something, such as this, which is so clearly, a non-factual attempt at justifying your thesis. IMO, you would do much better by sticking to facts, and being content to assert that racism, prejudice, and discrimination most often refer to...



    P.S.-- My post had been a side conversation, with Alwayssa, not really an attempt to attack your thread's concept. Though I had concurred with her, that your definitions were being tailored to suit your own needs, this seems patently obvious, so I was not really letting the cat out of the bag, on that score.

    P.P.S.-- Letting the cat out of the bag, btw, is an example of a true metaphor.

     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see anything in either the definition of the word "metaphor" or in the definition of the word "prejudiced" that impedes using "prejudiced" as a metaphor.

    I understand. But it's customary and desirable, in any serious communication, to define how one is using terms when the words can have multiple meanings, or may be misinterpreted by the listener. In this case, as I said before, there is an effort by right-wing extremists to change the definition of terms like "racism" for political reasons. And they might one day succeed, because ours is a live language and they have very powerful communication outlets. But, I for one, will resist this arbitrary change for all it's worth. One of the ways to do this is to point out the traditional meaning of these words. So that's what I did. What I explained is still the way the large majority of English speakers with an average level of education interpret the words. And up until one or two decades ago, it was nearly unanimous. But there is a minority of white supremacists who have managed to change the concept in the minds of even some non-white supremacists.
     
  9. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are still talking in generalities, instead of whole truths, or specifics. Editing & censorship, are tools of propaganda, as well, which you are using in your thread, self-described as fighting "arbitrary change," by White Supremacists.

    The actual definitions of the words, as I have used them, I have even quoted from the dictionary. You are trying to discard the parts of the meanings, which are not the most commonly applied (even though a "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience," was the very first definition, Oxford Languages, through Google, gave for "prejudice"). I disagree that your own assuming the tactic of misinformation is either justified by others' actions or-- as your audience is a more thinking crowd, which is not as eager to accept any lie, indiscriminately-- that your doing so, has the same effectiveness, in combatting similar tactics, on the other side. Rather, as I'd opined, I think it does more harm to your credibility, not only on this one particular topic, but overall.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The purpose of dictionaries is to explain what the majority of speakers of average educations would understand when they say a word. And they they usually do a very good job at it. So that's fine. But what was your point? I am using the meaning that illustrates actions that are pertinent to racial discrimination. Doesn't matter if there are other valid definitions. As long as we understand that the attempts by extremists to change the meanings for political reasons to ones that are not of common use except in some political groups for certain political motives.

    Huh? How does that contradict anything the OP says? Looks like another wording for what I said. I simply focused on what that exact same thing you quoted would be in a discussion about racism.


    At this point, I have no idea what it is you are objecting to..
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  11. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    which describes perfectly what you're doing; "Pay no attention to hundreds of years of dictionaries. I KNOW BETTER"
     
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No! What I posted is the same as the dictionary definition. Just in different words.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  13. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    "The purpose of a dictionary . . . "? I really doubt that.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? What did you think the purpose of a dictionary was? How did you think definitions made it into a dictionary?

    Anyway... point is the definitions I gave are basically the same in any dictionary, except focused on how they would apply to a racial scenario.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  15. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Not your condescending definition, obviously.
    So, highly educated people don't need or use dictionaries?
    Disingenuous, at best.
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You didn't answer the question.

    By the way you avoided answering, I believe you finally did a bit of research. And that's probably the reason why you are trying to change the subject. So you can relax... I'm not going to insist.

    Research is always good, but I wish people realized it would be even better if they do it BEFORE making absurd statements.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2023
  17. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    You got an answer. I'm not playing your silly games. Clear enough?
    Wrong again.
    One of your worst deflection attempts ever, G.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2023
  18. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your short, to the point and articulate responses.
     
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  19. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Of course their is systemic racism. A good example is the SAT. Blacks under perform and so Blacks are discriminated against.
     
  20. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another view-
    The implication is that unfair discrimination must exist if statistics show variations in one group over another. That is frequently labeled systemic- but often is completely rational.
    Let's suppose we have a situation where the black dogs in a city bite people 10 times more often than dogs of any other color.
    Obviously color does not determine if a dog bites or not, but if this were true- the color becomes an identifier of the greater danger. People would, by common sense and rational judgment, stay away from black dogs. Not because they are black, but because they perceive a risk.

    The same would be true if the link applied to any other strong identifying characteristic. The color indicates the probability but is not in itself the cause.
    So- would the common response of avoiding black dogs be "systemic", and in unfair judgment and discriminatory just over color? It might seem so if you choose to ignore the other factors.

    Truth is that if every black dog was exceptionally well behaved and friendly, we would give preference to black dogs. The perception created by the color- would be the opposite.
    If every black person a company hired turned out to be exceptional in character or performance, the company would give preference to black applicants.

    But the connections between desireable and undesireable behaviors aren't a product of color- but of culture. A culture may be connected by a religion, a race, or many thngs. But whenever a visible identifying
    characteristic is present, it is going to represent a connection- and that will impact the perception of all those with that common connection.

    That is reasonable and prudent. Yes, it creates a burden for the exceptions- but that doesn't make it unjust. The way to change what a characteristic represents- is to change the conduct in the culture, so it represents something more acceptable. The individual can do this for themselves, and that does help shift the culture- but the overall view depends on the entire group.

    In the meantime, people will naturally be more cautious regarding things that appear to constitute higher risks, in everything. Normal, and rational.

    If a group underperforms, that's not discrimination, it is underperformance. Most black children are raised in single family homes. They lack the structure of values that come from more functional family environments. That alone increases the percentage of poor-performing blacks in schools. That's common to the culture- not a product of the color. But because it's common in the culture, it presents itself in things like the SAT of blacks being lower. We have had schools lowering the bar in the attempt to make that metric disappear- and that is not beneficial to the black students at all. They are trying to compensate for racism that doesn't really enter into the equation.

    To fix problems, we have to recognize causes, not manipulate results.
     
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  21. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    So, it's the test's fault? How about those involved in educating those kids with the knowledge and skills required to succeed on the tests? How do you explain asian immigrant children who often come to the country with little or no education and then score 99.9% on SAT in a few years? It's not racism, it's the societal values of their community that is the problem. What needs to be done is changing "acting white" to "acting successful".

    Ironically the Smithsonian's Museum of African America culture basically ridicules the game plan to improve Black success:


    White culture.png
     

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