Hello everyone, First of all I know I'm about to get flack for this post and the title of this thread but I would like to discuss this topic. I am religious but not with church. I do belong to a church and I do go when I feel I should but my connection with god is more personal. I feel close to him and strive to follow his values. I pray to him and thank him for all he gives me and see the beauty in the nature he has created. BUT.. Is going to church really necessary to have a religion? To have a faith? To everyone I talk about this with I ask why they have the religion they do and they all say, "It's what I was raised with." I find a major flaw in that. What's the point of having a faith if there is no faith in it really. If it's just what you were raised with does that mean you would believe in a different faith if you were raised differently? Please feel free to debate this topic with me. I really enjoy hearing what others have to say. Now I know this is an opinion based argument but if you can come up with facts please share them. And please, don't get angry while talking about this topic. We are all here to debate and discuss calmly.
"If it's just what you were raised with does that mean you would believe in a different faith if you were raised differently?" Well, yes, obviously. Muslim families tend to get Muslim children. Christian families tend to get Christian children. Hindu families tend to get Hindu children. It might be comfortable to think that your upbringing is not a pivotal point in what religion you end up belonging to, but it would not be correct. You belong to a church and you believe in a god. My guess is your parents were Christian. Many atheists arrive at their atheism for precisely the same argument but applied to god in general. Everything you know about your god, you were taught (or made up). Is there being a god necessary for anything?
I don't know what church you go to or what you believe, or if you consider yourself a Christian or not. I don't know if you believe in the Bible. I am Bible believing and thus the church is important--as in the Bible it encourages a church family for support and fellowship. A church is a place to worship God (God's House). Learning scripture, praying for others taking care of your church family is all important according to the Bible.
Do You need a university for a higher education? Practice shoes that You do. But in theory You could read a dozen of good books and to watch another dozen of lectures at Youtube. Church is the institute, it's a community, which is required to remain on the same ground as other church goers. If You don't go and fon't share the same ground with the others it means that You will be able to become a sect-member, which calls himself a true follower of God and millions of church goers as Pharisees.
The point of going to church is to with a group of people who profess the same religious ideas that you do. It's basically a strength in numbers game. And while you're there you might be able to display some of the religious teachings that your particular religion preaches. The intent is not to just sit there like a bump on a log but to actually get to know the people you are in the room with. All too often churchgoers get all dressed up and go to church but they never interact with the other people there. They tend to stay in their own bubble. That seems to be counter-productive to me. If you are a Christian you don't have to go to an organized church. You can stay home and have a religious service with just your own family. You would probably get more out of it that way. That's because you can discuss things as how they relate to you and your family. However, you might get some push-back from that because your family may start to regard you as being overbearing. If you follow one of the peer-pressure religions such as Islam or Mormonism then you have to show up and participate in the group rituals. But if you're just a generic Christian you can have your religious services at home. Besides, you're supposed to pray in private and not in church.
If God is a personal God, that interacts in your life and leaves 26,000 to die of starvation today, then why would the church even be necessary? Why doesn't God come down from the clouds and tell you if it is necessary? Why does the church say that the church is necessary? Organized religion, especially through the church, is a form of social control. The church is not necessary. It serves only to empower the few who tell others what to believe.
You do not need a university or a school to learn, if you have the resources to learn without one. Same with church. Faith and worship does not require anything but faith and worship. The idea that you need a special building to do it in or it doesn't count is just another way that the elitist scum who run organized religions keep the sheep prioperly in their piens.
just try to persuade the job owner that You have best education ever without having attended any university or college and without having a diploma - come back to tell the results. With faith it is completely the same. For the curch-goers it is possibly to do without it for some time. But in order to keep up with the faith there is a desperate need to go to the church, to have the service, to do oa confession of the sins that accumulated since the last confession and with Russian Orthodox (and some other churches) it's a need of the Eucharist, it is also necessary to feel the pulse of the calendar from Christmas to the Easter at least. How can it be possible without going to the church? Technically it is possible to consider yourself a believer and the follower who is better than any onther guy on the planet and technically it is even possible to imagine yourself to be more saint than the God himself. But it cannot be called religion. Even a sect is more systematic than such a self-deceiving practice. But of course there are various opinions.
Frankly, it depends on your religion. If one is a buddhist, then no a church type setting is useful only to the extent that it helps you answer the eternal question of what makes you ultimately a better you and the answer you can get from others is in any case of limited value for only from your self can you ever hope to get an answer that fulfills that desire to be a better you. If one is a Muslim then 'Church' is an absolute requirement. However if one is a Christian the anwer becomes much more difficult. The reason for this is that there are so many pretenders to the throne out and about these days that it becomes rather difficult to sort through all the chaff to find the pure kernel. This however does not imply that one shouldn't look.
See this is what I was trying to get at but you said it a lot better than me. It goes along with the sword and shield theory. The shield and the sword are symbolic, the shield bears the crest of whatever faith you are. For every faith there is a different shield. The sword, on the other hand, is God, where your true power lies in the fight against evil. We, being knights, all serve our king, God. If we all serve but one king in the fight against evil then why bear of different religions? Why differentiate amongst ourselves and bicker with each other? We all fight about which religion is best. But the blades are all the same, strong, well made, sturdy, and to begin with, sharp. But over time we lose sight of our blade and it loses its edge. We stop sharpening it and show off our shield more and more, but that's just it, it's all for show. When it comes to the fight for God we don't do anything but show our shield. People use religion as a muse, a safe guard, and do no good in the fight for God. Evil, daemons, satin, they have but one religion and that is to do evil. So why can't we all stop bickering about our shield and make doing good our religion? This is where my question comes in, to have faith, to believe in God and worship and fight for him, do we have to be going to a church?
There is a rule and an exceptional case. We have a great number of regular verbs in English. But some of the verbs are irregular. Religion and the faith is the most conservative thing on the planet. Everyone of us knew of it only because we have church and religion. Yes, it is possible to learn of God from Himself or to get the idea of God from nature, but the regular understanding comes from the church. Only. Is it right or wrong? I think it is right. Because millions of us will never need a deeper understanding of God rather than the one which comes from religion and church. Only few exceptional people will have a life which they will have the true faith without any church. Nothing is impossible, but if one refuses of church it doesn't mean that he is exceptional and better than church and priests and society itself. In most cases the people who don't go, don't learn, don't know and don't care are a part of a different rule and not any exception. This rule refers to ignorant and selfish asocial people, who just spreads the word of lies to take as many people as possible from their regular way of saving their souls with the help of the church. First question is whether someone believes or doesn't believe into God. If a person believes than he will have to study a lot of information from a church. An exceptional person will never deny any way without providing his own. The second question refers to experience of a person and his knowledge of church practicing. I myself don't consider as the most dumb person in the world but having practiced and studying religion of my orthodox church for fifteen years for about once a month in average I can only tell that I don't know even 10% of church experience. And I doubt very much that I will have enough time in my life to get to the point that I can judge really of if it is necessary to go to church. Fighting for God without understanding of what you are actually fighting for is deceptive indeed. There can no be any strong argument that without church services and only by yourself You are fighting for the God and not against him. So if You feel that You have a blessing equal to one of the Bible prophets - skip going to church, please and try to change the world as God tells You. But if you feel like an ordinary person, who wants simple and easy things and just hopes just to be forgiven for his sins - come to the church and try to save yourself as everyone else does.
What exactly is a "church"? The New Testament word for church is 'eklesia' and all it means is a collection of people. It does NOT mean a physical building or institution. Therefore, any collection of people, two or more, is a church according to the New Testament. See Matthew 18:20. Thus, you do NOT need to go into any institution or listen to the words of a preacher in order to receive Divine Revelation as Jesus promised to be in any group gathered in his name and will give you the revelation you want.
I dont go to church anymore, except at Christmas and Easter. And I do not miss it. I also want the churches out of my wallet. I need to save for retirement now. No church is going to pay for my retirement for me.
Technically your are correct, the "church" is the people, not the building. During the early church in the days of the Roman Empire, the people were poor and gave all their property to join the church. In that way they each shared their property. Eventually this all went bankrupt however, as it always does, and eventually people had to retain whatever property they had, if any, because they had become serfs on manors and then they did not have any property anymore, they were just slaves attached to the lands.
Mostly what you have is a sense of spirituality, faith in a deity, and presumably a hope of an afterlife. Its not really a religion. But it seems like a completely valid choice. Churches are primarily communities, and each one has its own culture. In some churches the primary focus is evangelism and the teaching of doctrine. Others focus on social aid and charity. People become members because they identify with the culture and goals of their church, and by participating in them feel a heightened sense of spirituality. I personally think that people who can find a church that fits their spiritual needs are better off than those of us who cannot. But I do not respect people who only attend out of fear of eternal punishment, or anyone who believes that faith is an end to itself.
I agree. Which leads me to my next question, why are churches a good think if many only go out of fear for eternal punishment?
A church, contrary to popular opinion is not a building. The church is the body of believers. The word church is derived from a Greek word that literally means 'the called out' in certain regards this makes Abraham the first churchman as he was the first called out.
Why should we have a look on only one phrase? Let's see the whole abstract. Comeon! Let's read. 15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." So considering the words written in Mathew 18:20 I personally understand them that we should go to church if we decide to believe. But I understand who can be interested in another understanding and attempt to make a conflict between the church and people. For we never listen each other once talking betwen two of us and even the presence of a couple of witnesses never stops us. The whole forum is a perfect illustration of what happens once there is no church.
1) Religions are not based on fact, only belief 2) No, to your question, unless your belief says you should partake of the sacraments as most religions require. 3) most do as you and believe what suits their life. If it works, great.
