Republican AND Christian...? How?

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by Logician0311, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Such and easy solution but too easy. We could live in a totally faithless world and there still could be something you might describe as a deity. We could all be believers in a totally Godless universe. What we won't face as a species is we simply don't have any idea what a deity/creator etc is.
    That lack of certainty and the terror it induces feeds organised religion keeping it in power and riches over the ages. In fact it can be suggested all so called holy books are potentially blasphemous attempts at describing the indescribable.
     
  2. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    In 2000 I wanted Orrin Hatch versus Bill Bradley. What do you think they would have done?
     
  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Gore was a FAR better choice. Not saying he was the ideal but defo better.
     
  4. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Wrong!
     
  5. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Correction: Right!
     
  6. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Bradley joined the Knicks when they were the most pathetic team in the NBA. He was there while they built themselves up be developing a variety of talent and keeping a solid core instead of doing desperate things to leap to the forefront.
    Dave DeBuschere's experience as a baseball pitcher taught the team that you can't do everything right all the time but once every 4 days might be enough.
    Jerry Lucas made a study of which direction rebounds go and excelled in that aspect of the game. His encyclopedic talent to memorize is the type of man we need in the CIA and state department.
    Lucas was able to transmit that to the stronger and smoother Earl Monroe.
    Phil Jackson compensated for lack of talent by tough aggression, just what we need in a A Secretary of Defense.
    Dean Meminger was great for public relations.
    The team worked its way up while the Celtics were declining from flawless to prominent and they knew they could wait them out, but when the Knicks were finally better in 1969 the Celtics still won the championship because experience and sound leadership can compensate for lagging greatness. He would take advantage of that and know exactly when our enemies were vulnerable.
    In 1970 they overcame the flashy emptiness of the Lakers, because Jerry West's ego and Chamberlain's dunks were not enough when cohesion was sacrificed.
    However they lost in 71. that bitter defeat to the upstart Alcindor taught him that the combination of energy and experience (Elgin Baylor) can make the second best team defeat the best. that's what we need now that China has overtaken us as number 1 in the world.
    In 72 of course the Lakers could not be denied, and they got over the top because of Bill Sharman, a man who learned from the best and played on the greatest team ever, sinking from the personal dominance he would have had elsewhere to be part of a champion.
    Then the Knicks, themselves declining from age, took advantage of Havlicek's busted shoulder to advance to the finals one more time and bring the Knicks the last championship fans of that era might ever see.
    He watched the team decline around him in his final few years, years anyone might have stolen a championship in the NBA. Then he watched America decline from the Senate perch for 22 years.
    He could have been the nominee in 88 or 92 but he waited for full maturity and that was 2000.
    You need to pick the right man at the right moment. Your boy Gore might be finishing his second term now if Bradley had done 2.
    The country would be the way you like it. i'd like to think someone even better than Gore might have followed Bradley: Biden perhaps, or Dodd, or the best Democrat in office right now Ed Markey.
     
  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I gave you a like for the creativity used in making the analogy between bball and politics.

    As for Red Auerbach, nobody got more gift victories than he did during his long career. This is similar to Bobby Knight's illustrious career in which victories were handed to him on a silver platter by many NCAA refs and to coach K who reaps a harvest of freely handed wins by their peers.

    As part of your analogy I would like to nominate Dick Barnett as Secretary of Education for his doctorate in the subject. He scored over 15,000 points in his great career and his defense was a bit under rated. Somehow all of his great contributions have been largely overlooked by NBA commentators and by fans.
    The 1972 Lakes made their transformation into Champs the moment Jim McMillan replaced Elgin Baylor at forward. Jim went to my high school in Brooklyn, NY. He had a superb playoff run that year.



    Sad how the Knicks suffered their decline since they had such strong personnel in their lineups. Perhaps it was their lack of good draft choices that did it.
     
  8. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    I hope you don't think that was just creative writing. What I mean is, a person's background in life matters.
    Gore was born into the southern aristocracy and never really experienced life.
    He pretended he and Tripper were the inspiration for Love Story (mainly because he was hoping she'd die so he could experience some form of humanity.
    His dad was Senator and he inherited the job, but he knew the south was changing color so he ran in '88 in an attempt to get out before he lost his Senate seat and was humiliated for life.
    It didn't work because he was too inept to defeat a black poet in the south.
    He got out and was obligated to run for President, but that behavior after the election proves he didn't really want to win. He could have bowed out graciously like Nixon and made a comeback. Instead he's become officially the traitor he always was mentally.
    I was too young to see Auerbach win as coach but I saw his genius as General Manager.
    He took a chance JoJo White would get killed in Vietnam. He drafted Bird a year early. He took Ainge out of baseball.
    My point was that no one needed gifts to beat the Knicks in 1962.
    You're right about Bailor. Great flashy players don't win championships. Teamwork wins. It took an Auerbach player who stepped down from legend to great for the team, to get Chamberlain his championship.
    I was a fan in 71-72 but could only see the Lakers twice a year plus playoffs. I didn't understand why he had only 1 previous championship at the time. That took study.
     
  9. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Trust me when I say that no one knows that better than I do.

    Many years ago when I was in law school several students sitting near me got together and started talking about the swimming pools in their backyards. Each said how they would be jealous if a neighbor was wealthier and the kids had a bigger pool to play in. Then they asked me how was the pool in my backyard when I was growing up. I had to tell them, I'm from the ghetto and we did not have a pool. Instead the alley way was filled with garbage, alley cats, mice, broken whiskey bottles, and other assorted stuff that are typical of low income urban neighborhoods. That, in fact, I never had a chance to enjoy a swimming pool since the only clean one in the area was racially segregated and we Hispanics were not allowed to use it. Needless to say my wealthy Republican Christian white class mates went into near shock and they decided to end the conversation right there.

    Years later I still live in the ghetto and got nowhere in life despite all that useless education that I got.

    Yes indeed, it is great to have such a background as you say. Too bad some of us only get to see how others benefit from it but never actually experience it.
     
  10. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Conservative christians have a long history in the republican party.(at least since the mid 1970's anyway, maybe a little earlier)

    The main idea is that christian culture and values are being eroded by modern society, especially secular humanism and new ideas about social freedom.

    Its a reactionary ideology whose main purpose is to protect a way of life which they believe is supported by christian values. The reason they fall victim to hypocrisy is that they believe that any way of defending a 'way of life' is justified, the actual religious teachings become secondary.
     
  11. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered how Hispanics fared in the south. just recently I tried to find out about the first white Hispanics in major league baseball. Were there others besides Al Lopez prior to 1947, and did he have to fight for permission to get in?
     
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  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Secular humanism is responsible?

    Sheer nonsense.


    It is the prevailing Republican materialism and degeneracy that is responsible for the decline of morality and decency in modern society.
     
  13. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Dolpho Luque (Cuban) won 27 games in one season during the 1920s. Despite being white, he was often targeted by others for his ethnic origin. He kept people at a distance by carrying a large dagger in his brief case and took it with him wherever he went.

    Hiram Bithorn was the first Puerto Rican in MLB in 1940. However he was murdered in Mexico and did not get to develope his game.


    Luis Olmo (who is still alive today at age 9.8) was from Puerto Rico and is in the Brooklyn Dodger Hall of Fame. His career was cut short when he jumped the league in the late 1940s. Hispanics were badly under paid and that is why several jumped the league or they would have had far better careers.


    Finally in the late mid to late 1950s black and other dark skinned players from Cuba and Puerto Rico were allowed in MLB. They faced very harsh discrimination when they played in the South.



    By the way, Ted Williams hid his Hispanic heritage during his career and lived his life as a white man. Ditto for NY Yankees great Allie Reynolds (Native American). Babe Ruth hid the fact that he was partly black and historians sympathetic to him kept up the pretense that he was fully white. I am sure there were many others who did the same.
     
  14. Phil

    Phil Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Don't forget, there was never an official rule about this, but since they did have a black league (and pay was very low in the majors and minors too) the situation was comfortable for everyone. Too bad Ruth didn't tell some secrets. It would have helped the situation.
    I assume that Luis Olmo left with that short-lived rival league. Was that fully integrated? Sal Maglie was the most famous player to return to MLB after it fell apart. Of course the Negro League was disbanded only after most teams integrated. Did they ever let a white player in?
     
  15. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    During his years in MLB, Babe Ruth was the most popular player among black fans in the game. They knew his secret but kept it that way because they did not want him to leave the game.


    Yes, there were white players in the Negro Leagues:


    http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/06/larry_smith_dick_lefty_oneal_a.html


    There were also a couple of female players including Toni Stone of St Paul:

    [​IMG]



    I have watched many games at Toni Stone field in St Paul.



    Years ago I attended a convention of Negro League players at the Martin Luther King Center in the Rondo section of St Paul. The players said a very interesting thing: that St Paul was the only city in the USA that treated them like MLB players. They could get a good room at any hotel, a fine table at any restaurant, and a cab at any time of night. No other city came close to treating them that well.
     
  16. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree but you have a problem whenever discussing such issues with a believer or anyone trying to make excuses for them, that is wildly different ideas of what does constitutes 'morality and decency'. Not so long ago many believed burning heretics at the stake was the decent thing to do.
     
  17. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't fall in the conservative christian camp, I'm just describing their point of view. I am not even sure there is any real decline in 'morality and decency', as you put it.

    Personally I think the biggest modern problem, at least in the US, is reactionism. We seem to have tagged the conservatives with this, but I see it in just about everyone tied strongly to any rigid political or social view. Its the inability to see a problem except from a certain framing of it, and feeling that extreme measures need to be used quickly in order to solve it. Its chicken little demanding everyone prove the sky isn't falling, or really, lots and lots of chicken littles.
     
  18. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that the Republicans and others of the right wing capitalize politically on all those claims. Then they the point the finger at Dems for those problems while disguising their own faults. The perverted Dennis Hasterts of this country are nothing new. Soon enough we will have even more hypocrites like him exposed.
     

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