Republicans Warn Iran -- and Obama -- That Deal Won't Last

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by theferret, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    Wouldn't be a problem except the Middle East is sitting on top of OUR Corp oil fields. Those damn tools don't get Corp power is everything in the US
     
  2. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    But corporate existence and (by extension) corporate power are derived almost exclusively from state-sanctioned privileges and immunities.
     
  3. publican

    publican Banned

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    As are yours.
     
  4. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp. (1936), Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion:

    [T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it.
     
  5. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    Now your just being stubborn to the point of insipidness, Mikey. As the chronology of the posts shows, I've engaged any and all contrary aspects to my initial statement, and provided valid, documented proof to support my statements and responses...including your repeated question.

    Since YOU could not logically or factually refute or disprove what I put forth beyond your generalized opinion, supposition and conjecture, you now seek to waste time in rehashing what has already been discussed on this thread. I suspect in typical fashion for folk of your mindset, you'll cry "victory" for my refusal to go in circles with you. So be it...the rational and mature reader will follow the thread and see your folly. Carry on.
     
  7. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    Translation: junior got whupped in a fair fight, and doesn't have the maturity to concede a point. Good riddance to yet another revisionist libertarian.
     
  8. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where is the citation for the claim "Right-Wing Hypocrites Demand Obama Secure Bergdahl’s Release" on your kook blog source? OR did they just make it up? Never mind I found it they used two other kook blogs.
     
  9. publican

    publican Banned

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    Nobody intruded. They sent a letter. I saw nothing in that letter that was negotiating anything. Try harder.
     
  10. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    Not the willfully ignorant and insipidly stubborn right wing wonks.....they throw any and all under the bus who deviate from the propaganda in a nano-second...McCain is one of the GOP 47.....Buchannan is a premiere conservative commentator (former Nixon speech writer and presidential candidate). But rational and objective folk see the problem with former high profile folk in the conservative cause breaking ranks.

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    Yep, just as I said before, Alpha Omega's got nothing. I leave him to his cranky crowing.
     
  11. theferret

    theferret Well-Known Member

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    Not quite, read the article
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you think you've provided anything of note. I asked you what exactly do you consider "near treason" and why none of the other examples given to you in this thread of Democrats in Congress running their own foreign policy fit the non crime of "near treason" and you've still not answered it. And yet somehow you seem to think you've provided a bounty of info.
     
  13. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I did. I am not stating that the letter was treasonous, criminal, or unconstitutional, but it was wrong because the whole point of the letter was to cast doubt to any deal the President may get with Iran.

    The GOP are more interested in party politics than country and it showed with that letter. If any deal should be done, the honest approach would have been to have had a hearing in the Senate to either ratify the treaty or not. But we all know that RW pundits are never honest, with themselves or others.
     
  14. publican

    publican Banned

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    Where was the negotiating? What part of the letter was impinging on negotiations? And Obama is the flat out politician here. And he said he would use his pen and phone to go around Congress. The GOP sent a letter. Too bad.
     
  15. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    For the reason previously stated, I didn't bother reading the rest of your drivel. As for this:

    and has shown himself to be an appeaser of leftards many a time ere this.

    You're utterly incompetent to render any such appraisal, obviously.

    More accurately, it's no surprise when leftists pretend to respect nominal conservatives who, for whatever reason, lend support to their treasonous agenda.
     
  16. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    Reading comprehension issues huh:

    Justice Sutherland wrote in the majority opinion:

    [T]he President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nationHe makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it.
     
  17. publican

    publican Banned

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    All yours.
     
  18. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    Far-right website FreedomOutpost was all over the president for allowing Bergdahl to “rot” in Afghanistan — as well as aghast at Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) for opposing a prisoner exchange. In October 2013, blogger John DeMayo had this to say:

    Many in Congress including Senator John McCain oppose a prisoner exchange to bring Bowe Bergdahl home. Apparently, McCain feels a better deal can be struck with the Taliban. A deal that does not release dangerous terrorists out into the world community. Perhaps McCain forgets the deal he struck with his captors to secure his release.

    The war in Afghanistan continues to wind down. For years, the United States has been releasing Afghan detainees from military prisons in Afganhistan. [sic] This has been going on periodically, every year, since Sgt. Bergdahl was captured. So why is Bergdahl not home today? My very real fear is — like so many others — Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl may be left behind.


    Ah, but when Bergdahl was finally released, did FreedomOutpost express its thanks and relief? Nope. Instead, noted Islamophobe Pamela Geller referred to the POW as an “AWOL traitor,” and spewed:

    ...Sarah Palin

    No story about right-wing hypocrisy would be complete without some input from the Wicked Queen herself — the pageant-walkin’ reality TV performer from Wasilla, Sarah Palin.

    Here she was in 2009, praying for the release of Sgt. (then Private) Bergdahl. In true Palin style, the statement has since been mysteriously scrubbed from the original website, but like most conservatives, she hasn’t quite grasped that the intertubes have a looooong memory. Take it away, Wayback Machine!

    PJ (Formerly Pajamas) Media

    The conservative media outlet proudly put up a petition in January 2014, demanding that the Obama administration “take action to secure the release, or rescue, or Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, using all means available, including force.”

    LOL


    http://www.nationalmemo.com/right-demands-obama-secure-bergdahls-release/4/
     
  19. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I keep seeing this cite as some global grant of power to the executive. One needs to read the case and opinion in its entirety to understand the issue involved, the words used, and what are quotes used to clarify the authors meaning but not intended to be or misconstrued as the opinion itself.

    Read the opinion, you will see that the use of: 'The President is the sole organ of the nation in its external relations, and its sole representative with foreign nations.' is a quote, not part of the opinion but used to clarify not opine. The quote from Marshall's argument of March 7, 1800, in the House of Representatives.

    'The President is the constitutional representative of the United States with regard to foreign nations. He manages our concerns with foreign nations and must necessarily be most competent to determine when, how, and upon what subjects negotiation may be urged with the greatest prospect of success' is a quote from a Senate Committee on Foreign Relations report dated February 15, 1816.

    Here's how the thoughts pondered were incorporated, limited and tempered:

    It is important to bear in mind that we are here dealing not alone with an authority vested in the President by an [299 U.S. 304, 320] exertion of legislative power, but with such an authority plus the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power of the President as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations-a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress, but which, of course, like every other governmental power, must be exercised in subordination to the applicable provisions of the Constitution.


    Even with the above, showing how through quotes from others help frame the opinion and how in the opinion the force suggested in the quoted ideas is tempered, one needs to read the opinion to understand the context within the Justice was speaking.

    Read the thing, then let's talk. For those just pasting from some article and foisting it as fact or the opinion of the court, you are being used. Read the dam thing for yourself. It's interesting.

    Cheers
    Labour
     
  20. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The negotiations have been happening in Geneva with Sec of State Kerry leading the U.S delegation. There are five other parties involved, including Iran. Obama, though its delegatory authority, can and does negotiate with foreing powers of matters of state. It is the Senate who ratifies those treaties.

    Again, the whole letter is being used to undermine those talks by creating doubt on the side of the Iranians. And that is the whole point. It has nothing to do with the frivolous argument of who is committing treason or not.
     
  21. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually it might be Obama and congress working in concert. Good cop bad cop. Perhaps Obama asked then to write it.

    Cheers
    Labour
     
  22. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nothing? I have the satisfaction of watching you try to claim Obama didn't trade 5 terrorists for a deserter which is exactly what he did.
    In the leftist mind, when you get a hangnail on your finger and the doctor amputates your arm to fix the hangnail, do you think that is a successful solution to the problem? Yes right?
     
  23. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    The Justice said, and what has been used for 200+ years, is the Prez is SOLELY responsible for representation of the US Gov't dealing with these types of issues. THAT'S why the GOP wanted to sabotage him/Iran1

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    lol... No honesty, but funny at least...
     
  24. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read it. It doesn't say what you think it does as related to this issue. It also says a great deal more that you could use for grist in the partisan mill. It is interesting how things have changed in the world, through technology mostly, and the free access to real time information. Read the opinion, it's interesting.

    Here's a part that while still true might not be so persuasive today:

    "Moreover, he, not Congress, has the better opportunity of knowing the conditions which prevail in foreign countries, and especially is this true in time of war. He has his confidential sources of information. He has his agents in the form of diplomatic, consular and other officials."

    In the 1930's this was certainly true but with the information age and instant access and instant distribution a Congress Critter of today is likely more informed than a President of the past. The base premiss is still valid but the strength of the argument is not.

    Your thoughts?


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    Oh, I think it's more than a passing thought. If Obama wants a good, binding and lasting agreement with Iran he would be using all the negotiating tools available. It allows him to be the quiet negotiator offering solutions, let the war mongers in Congress remind them of the alternative. If Obama isn't choreographing this from behind the scenes then we do have a problem (blame both ways) I would like to think that in the end, the partisan crap is put aside for the greater good.

    Again, your thoughts?

    Cheers
    Labour
     
  25. dad2three

    dad2three New Member

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    November 13, 2013

    The role of Congress in the conduct of foreign policy has become nearly the opposite of what the founders of this country intended. The architects of the Constitution placed the day-to-day conduct of diplomacy in the hands of the executive branch. Indeed, the need to have the federal government deal with foreign affairs more effectively than it had under the Articles of Confederation was a key reason why the Constitution established a presidency with significant, independent powers.

    At the same time, the founders wanted Congress to play a major role in the most crucial aspects of foreign affairs. Thus, all treaties had to receive approval by a two-thirds vote of the Senate.


    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/congress-worst-both-worlds-approach-foreign-policy-9394

    Pretty clear WHICH branch is SUPPOSED to be in charge AND NO, THE GOP ISN'T BEING CHOREOGRAPHED" BY OBAMA ON THIS. The anti Obama extreme right winger war hawks are doing this today!
     

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