Christ explained that love is the only way to defeat evil. Love does not use force. It does not seek to punish. How can we take Christ seriously if his plan is to ignore his own advice to "save" mankind? Obviously, revelations cannot be word of the Christian God because it flies so extremely in the face of Christ's teachings. It is simply clever man-made propaganda to control people. It is not easy to control people with love. Fear is much better suited for such a purpose.
Well, apparently it's got control of you for you seem insensed to the max. I'm surprised you spend anytime even thinking of Christ.
the love of truth is what enabled and it (truth) will enable the future generations. No one is going to fix charles manson and it is the idiots, bigots, pigs and useless wastes of oxygen that are denying reality, right now it is them layers of idiots that are why MORE folk are not being given a chance to understand. ww3 is based on these layers of idiots the divide of classes are by these same kind In a sense, you are correct. I aint pushing my way thru them layers You dont see me using force. But do i condone a judgment to the extreme of taking a life? YES ie.... if someone denies personal responsibility and contibues harming others................. i have no pity! neither should YOU that would be like your child stealing from you and you not educating him/her Perhaps at 8, take your car, then push your TV over and then kick your own mother in the shins for wanting a grandma style kiss.... no punishment? saving 'mankind' is simply an unveiling to understand what the 'f' each are, in fact then all the saving is between 'we the people' and it does in fact mean, 'be my brothers keeper' there aint no magic there aint no other place people go to get judged 'we' the people are 'it' ........ and that fact just ruins people who have been lied too about magical mystical garbage imposed to them and now without magic and miracles, there are billions of idiots who just WILL NOT believe what they know it true directly revelations is just a combining of the OT books (the prophets) and much of the NT bs but they began as visions and many from well before anything old or new T visions do occur and all of us have experienced them (deja vu). It is a property of electromagnetism called entanglement. They did not see dragons and the sky falling but they could has seen nuclear subs firing nuclears missiles (dragon spitting fire that rains upon the land) and ballistic missiles coming back thru the atmosphere and the fire melting flesh from bone. They did not have the words to describe what they saw Heck, many here do not even comprehend what electromagnetism (light) is. Did you know it is electric and magnetic fields in perpendicular planes? it is a perfect CROSS
Love is not about control, it is a characteristic of God that He has endowed us with. A good thing, not meant for evil. This crap about the Bible and the reason for us to believe in God is to control the people is a long worn out supposition that is exactly that. Crap.
Love does not use force? What if force is needed to free an enslaved people? Would love use force then? My guess is yes, at least, those I love I would use force to help free them if able. Like it or not, sometimes love demands picking up a child and smacking the tar out of them when they get out of line, or as Christ taught us, sometimes we need to pick up a whip and open a jar of whoop arse. Next question?
"Smacking the tar out of them" or "pick up a whip and open a jar of whoop arse". This is not love. Perhaps a gentle swat to the buttock is appropropriate for a young child. Then again, the PC crowd would scream bloody murder. I do agree that love sometimes results in force to as you say "free an enslaved people" or to protect your family from imminent danger or protect a country and its people from terrorist activity. In these cases it's a different kind of love yet it is still not evil in the sense that humanity can understand. However history shows us that even this kind of love can cross the bounds of what is right or wrong in any given situation.
I'm not sure I agree with this idea. Perhaps Manson is the way he is because he never experienced true love. You don't see that attitude as being in direct conflict with Christ's notion that one should love his enemies? Although you do make a strong point here, that's not exactly an equivalent analogy to the eternal sadistic punishments described in Revelations. For example, I wouldn't lock my child away in the basement for the remainder of his life and whio him at my leisure for stealing from me. The punishment would be relatively brief, and physically painless (or at least unscarring), and intended to teach a lesson. I get all this, but it's still in direct conflict with Christ's moral teachings. That's what I mean. I agree with you 99%. My only departure is that I am an agnostic. Well, I never said that about the entire Bible, just revelations. And I cannot take credit myself for the idea. It has been debated, even among Christian leaders, since the stories of the Bible were first laid out. Then you wouldn't be using force against those that you loved, but rather those you didn't love who enslaved your lovedones. Love may be the inspiration for the use of force, but such force is not a manifestation of love itself. It really does more closely resemble hatred.
But Revelation is just a restatement of prophecy books in the OT. For example, the beast spoken of in Daniel is the one spoken of in Revelation. The wars at the end of the age are written about in Ezekial like they are Revelation etc. Really, the dark time seems to have been the OT with God wiping out an entire world with a flood and wiping out the inhabitants of Canaan with the Israelites. As a result, I'm not so sure why you are fixated on Revelation. From my interpretation, God has given us a period of grace to come to repentance. Then when mankind is on the verge of destroying himself, he comes to intervene and cast judgement. This judgement then puts an end to all sin and the suffering that follows such sin. If God is a loving God, then snuffing out sin would be the top priority because sin causes suffering. However, he delays such judgement as long as possible in the hopes more will come to repentance. So what of those who refuse to go along? What if they refuse to repent? It then stands to reason you either allow them to continue to cause suffering or stop it at some point. This is what Revelation describes in my opinion. It is the final gasp of sin and suffering in the universe.
Hate, Greed, Jealousy as also traits God has endowed us with. Perhaps these are the traits that are meant for evil.
The only way to call that 'love' is to have your head muddled by religion. If a person that wasn't God did that with their child, you would call them a murderer or a monster, not a loving parent.
How many of us would be willing to do this with our children and loved ones? Of course this is love, I agree with you.
Not at all. These are traits of sinful man and the father of lies, satan. They are not of God. What, pray tell has possessed you man?
FYI. Christian martyrs have died and seen their family members maimed and killed and they loved them more than you and I can even conceive. They were the recipients of the hate and cruelty of hellish and anti-Christ individuals and groups. Perhaps if you too accepted the love of Christ you would not so hell-bent on castigating others that truly experience the love of Him.
Without Jesus it matters not whether you are in agreement 1% or 99%, you fall short of the glory of the Lord, hence your need for a Savior. I too began as an agnostic, discovered the errors of my way and now I too know and experience the love and joy of being a child of God. My hope is that all come to this place in their lives, especially you.
Nobody was talking about martyrs. It was a parent offering their children up for torture and as a sacrifice. Perhaps if you had reasonable arguments or rebuttals you wouldn't be so hell-bent on changing the topic whenever it suits you.
Well as a Christian the God we speak of is a triune being. So technically he is doing this to himself.
Please enlighten me. What "parent offering their children up for torture and as a sacrifice"? You are of course referring to those radical Muslims? Or do you speak of God?
I'm tempted not to post this because it borders on being mean, and much as BFOJ might disagree right now, that is not what I'm here for. I'm compelled to share it. Please take it with a grain of salt; I believe it was done mainly for laughs. To someone who is not already a believer, items like the triune don't make any sort of sense and defy explanation. I can't say it's wrong, but I can't agree with any of it either. Original: http://scaryreasoner.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/best-summary-of-christianity-ever/ There's probably a better way to have gotten his goals no?
I thought that God created man, not Satan ? Three questions: 1) Who created man. 2) Who created Satan. If the answer to 1 and 2 is God .. then God created all the traits of man, sinful or not .. and he also created the "father of lies" as you put it. 3) If God created Man and Satan but did not create the sinful traits of man, where did these sinful traits come from?
I'm convinced at this point you are merely playing some sort of character, but I'll humor you a little longer. My post that you responded to was a response to Montra's post: How about a love that sends his only Son to the cross and be tortured and die? If you can confuse that with those radical Muslims, well, that's on you.
These questions have been asked and responded to thousands of times, I shall share with you a link that speaks to what I believe. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/evil.html Perhaps an understanding between the use of Evil in biblical terms and secular terms is in store for you and others.
that sounds like a freud, landmark or perhaps just scientology diagnosis. you're getting the notion liars are the enemies remember back when them books were written, life was not valued back then; unless royalty, nobility and clergy most could be burned at the stake just for possessing written words fear was and has been a tool for a long long time who? when was that? bible has had the "revelation" for about 1600 yrs. would you rather read about OT prophecies? Or if you are a christian, are you not wanting 'christ' to come and clean up this taco stand? i hate liars and love the people that the lies are harming destroy the liar and save the children
