Robert Spencer smacks down Ron Paul

Yes.. he's an idiot who deals in lies and half truths .. He's really one of the stars of LOONWATCH.

He's never even been to the Arab world.

 

EARTH to Margot : One does not need to go to the Arab world to know about Islam. This is 2011, not 1825. We have TV, internet, satellites. The whole world is an open book. I learned that as a young man in college in 1968, when I read the book War & Peace in the Global Village by Marshall McLuhan.

The fact that you call Spencer "an idiot" affirms, once again, that you are an idiot. Only a real dum-dum would call a brilliant author/scholar like Robert Spencer, an idiot. It's like calling Einstein or Issac Newton an idiot. Everyone then knows who really is an "idiot" (for being so stupid to make such an obvious mistake).

As for saying that you read his books, I don't believe it. If you did you could identify who this person is : (bet you can't)

Who is "Rachel" ? in the book The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam..


and you could name some of the Muslim propaganda schoolbooks mentioned in the book Stealth Jihad ? Go ahead. What are they ?

As for Loonwatch, they are the loons we need to watch out for. Anybody who would ever present Loonwatch as a source, needs to to be laughed right out of this forum.

 

The difference is, of course, that virtually every other "Civilized Nation and Religion" gave up their medieval ways a long, long time ago. Islam is the only religious group and culture that is still behaving very much like their 7th century predecessors, and you choose to ignore it. By your logic, we have every right to hate them for their past transgressions. However, the logic bends when you limit the hatred to just ourselves, because it's too politically incorrect to do otherwise.

Islam is the only religion whose religious book says "kill the unbelievers" and what do you know? Muslims are killing the unbelievers.

Yes, yes, the Bible has some violent passages too. Does that make Islam OK? Please show some examples where Christians are committing the same amount of religiously inspired violence as Muslims. Go ahead.

 

Very convenient how you skipped over this part

Go ahead, though. Take a stab at explaining why the Muslim terrorists you are willing to throw your own country under the bus for have always been a violent, menacing group.

 

It's always funny to watch someone desperately try and prove how non political and non partisan they are on this political message board. Sorry to say I'm not impressed.

 

There are plenty of Muslims who are looking to change that entire perspective completely yet, you're broad stroking the entire Religion to be a bunch of Insane Warmongers. Who are you to be the Judge of the lives of those who don't commit such acts as Murder or Oppression? People just living their lives just as I or you do but, follow Islam are now considered dangerous even if they have no willingness or incentive to kill those of a different belief. Truly logical...

They (Being Muslims) see Europe and the Americas as the Christian World... it doesn't matter if they're carrying the Golden Cross of the Pope or not they're going to see it that way. When our Governments establish coups, enslave their people and steal their riches expect a backlash to occur... and those seeking power out of the situation (Or are complete idiots) will label the entire Population of the countries that attacked them enemies even the Innocents not involved. There is plenty of Justification for their rage and hatred if you simply open a History book of the acts the Western World has placed upon the Middle East.

 

Here is some: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?pagewanted=all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedomites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Volunteers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutaree

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(USA)

And there are lots more, all in the name of our lord Jesus Christ !

 

1. "PLENTY" ? Well, I know of a couple of Islam reform groups. Dr Zuddhi Jasser's group American Islamic Forum for Democracy is one. Islam Watch is another. One would think you could name quite a few, being that you say there are "plenty" of them. Want to tell us who they are ? Let's hear it.

2. People who have, as you say, "no willingness or incentive to kill those of a different belief" are not following Islam. To follow Islam is to follow the Koran, and that means killing non-Muslims (and many other vile things). A person is not a Muslim because they say so. Their actions define what they subscribe to.

3. Yeah, there's "plenty of Justification for their rage and hatred if you simply open a History book of the acts the Western World has placed upon the Middle East" . that is if you read one of the many propaganda history books floating around in American schools, published in Saudi Arabia, and specifically designed to indoctrinate kids to accept Islam and hate Christianity.
I wonder if you could tell me where (from what textbooks) you "learned what you said here. I wouldn't doubt that it is one of the many rogue books on the well known list of textbooks written about by Gilbert Sewall, of the American Textbook Council, (which reviews school texts for accuracy) in his famous report "Islam and the Textbooks."
I wouldn't doubt you learned this poppycock from one of those, like the Arab World History Notebook which was removed from schools all across America for its misinformation of Muslims being in North America as early as 889 AD, thoroughly refuted by Peter DiGangi, a well known expert on the Algonquin Indian tribe in Quebec, Canada. The book was removed, but not before hundreds of teachers all over America had used it for 5 years, and thousands of kids read it, and then went on to higher grades and other schools never having heard of the corrections.

 

But not adding up to anywhere near the 17,000 Muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11. To even try to compare these two is absurd. It's like comparing a blades of grass to an oak tree, and saying they're both plants.

Brewskier said to show where they're commiting the same amount as Muslims are. So you're saying these groups have comitted 17,000 acts of terrorism over the last 10 years ? LOL.

PS - it is important to note that these groups who you claim do their misdeeds "all in the name of our lord Jesus Christ"
may or may not actually be doing that. But they cannot ever be doing it by the words of Jesus Christ, or the Christian Bible. By contrast, Muslims, in their terrorism, certainly do follow the words of their prophet (Mo the Pedophile), and his abomination book of hate > the Koran. ("I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." - Koran 8:12)

 

1) Do I really have to give group names or I could simply say Muslims that are not in Theocratic States and are living amongst people of other beliefs are living a Peaceful life. Quite unlike people try to make them appear...

2) Just as there are in any Religion different sects who interpret words differently from those of other groups. If you took the Old Testament and compared against the Koran and then solely judged a group who followed the Words in both books... they would both be considered insane Warmongers. Times change and people themselves can disregard the interpretation others give then choose for what they want those words to mean.

If Muslims were Insane as people make them out to be the entire populace should be Warlike and be constantly invading the West with Armies... Obviously that isn't happening at all because the Majority of the Human Race doesn't like Death and War.

3) In their own words they were constantly attacked and betrayed... and it being 7th Century the tactics used in that day and Age were quite brutal.

No, I simply looked up the History surrounding Muhammed.


Do you believe all Muslims are evil or Warmongers? If you said Yes do you believe we should exterminate them?

 

Wars are never fought based on what the grunts on the frontline think.

 

Christian violence also goes back centuries and it can be noted that this violence related to religious nations, whether Muslim or Christian, engaging in wars of conquest. This has been a fundamental problem with religion of any kind when religion rules government. It was compelling reason why the founders of America rejected religion as the foundation for government in the Declaration of Independence.

Islamic terrorists cannot be compared to the religious conquests of the past. They do not seek territorial control in foreign lands. They instead seek to remove foreign tyranny from their own Muslim nations. Not only are they opposed to the tyranny of the United States in the Middle East but they are also historically opposed to the tyranny of Muslim governments in nations like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq and Jordan as the history of Islamic terrorism indicates.

Always remember that the primarty target of al Qaeda under Osama bin Ladin was not the United States. It was Saudi Arabia because of the tyranny of the Royal Family of Saud. Even with the US support of Israeli tyranny it wasn't until the US located military bases in Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the Royal Family of Saud that we became a target of al Qaeda terrorist attacks. It was our military missions during the 1990's that were violating the sovereignty of Iraq from Saudi Arabia that lead to the 1993 WTC attack, the 1998 African embassy attacks, the 2000 attack on the USS Cole, and finally to the attacks of 9/11.

 

Ambassador Bolton said last night on Fox..
All the republican candidates are worthy except for RON PAUL..

Why ?
His foreign policy statements about IRAN are dangerous and weak..
and he shouldn't be Considered.

From a inside guy who has been there..KNOWS better..
so now who do you trash..
FOX or Bolton or both.

 

These experts people throw around as if they understand the entire situation are laughable... same ones who believe it's okay to fund Dictators and overthrow Elected Governments or quite possibly invade other countries for the POSSIBILITIES of a Terrorist Hideout/Weapons cache. Quite possibly we should follow Obama's footsteps and go into countries under a "Humanitarian Effort".

Those who would rather talk than get into a fight that isn't necessary are always seen to be weak by those who are bullies and tyrannists. Quite funny when literature and movies presents the villians of the story itself we seem to be following the path of the villian when it comes to decision making.

 

Who does Ron Paul use as a foreign policy expert ?
Himself ?
Now that's laughable.

 

History, CIA and our enemies own Words...

Wow!?

 

So Bolton's position is that we should continue our current foreign policy with Iran which hasn't worked so far and shows no indication that it will ever work in the future.

The fact is that I've listened to interviews with Bolton and he's an idiot.

BTW if we want complete unlimited access to Iran's nuclear programs then they've already offered us the way that can be accomplished. Iran is willing to submit to any and all nuclear inspections by the IAEA that Israel will allow. All we need to do it to get Israel to agree to IAEA inspections.....

 

And the National Intelligence Estimate which is the combined summary of all of our intellegence services.

 

History ..The CIA ?
and how bout the non nuclear designs Iran said it didn't have or
want years ago ?
The same CIA that helped form the intelligence Bush used..

So just like Obama he surrounds himself with what?
The same characters who have failed the system before.
Great job Paul..Verrry Constitutional.

 

Lol.. you really are a fool. "... Very Constitutional" how the hell does Ron Paul violate the Constitution by using History and the Intelligence Agencies? You're grasping at Straws so much that it's unbearable to read at times.

 

Then you're a terrorist sympathizer. Must be a great feeling.

 

Except when they are. The terrorist leaders make no secret about their ultimate goal — the worldwide implementation of Sharia and the destruction of anyone who stands in their way. It's the same goal shared by Muslims in Muhammad's time.

But, if you think you know more about their intentions than they do, let's hear it.

 

The primary difference between the two is that the Islamic wars of conquest are based on Qur'anic scriptures and Islamic theology. The Qur'an commands followers to wage war for the religion until Sharia is the law of the land. Any place not under Islamic control is considered to be the "House of War". Christian theology has no parallel.

Wrong. Muslims believe that the entire world belongs to Allah, and any land that is not under Allah's control must be conquered, by any means possible.

" Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Qur'an (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."

Now, your move is to claim that not all Muslims believe this. You're right, but that's not because of the religion. It's in spite of the religion.

These were not peaceful, fun-loving Muslims before our foreign policy endeavors turned them into savage murderers. These are barbarous killers hellbent on world domination and a totalitarian religious theocracy. Them targeting us first does not mean that we provoked them. They are obviously going to take on the biggest and closest threat first, before making their rounds to everyone else. Israel will always be the #1 target of Muslims, since they have a religious duty to hate Jews, and they will oppose the largest "infidel" force first, and work their way down. They are attacking virtually every Western country from within, even the ones who are not involved at all in the Middle East. They view this as "us versus them", and the sooner we realize this, the better we can defend ourselves.

You cannot explain why Muslims have been waging jihad for 1400 years based on your "Hate America First" excuse making and justifications.

 

You must be a complete moron who can't even formulate an actual argument against the reasons I suggested other than "terrorist sympathizer". Must be a great feeling.

 

Obviously he doesn't. I guess he never watched all the videos those terrorists made, where they explicitly state they are following the commands of their own religion.

"Allahu Akbar" while sawing off a defenseless person's head isn't clear enough, I guess.