Robert Spencer smacks down Ron Paul

You're lack of reading comprehension is astounding. Either that, or its intentional obtuseness. It's hard to pinpoint the culprit.

Anyway, if you had bothered reading my entire quote, you would have seen that I was not advocating mass slaughter against Muslims. However, in the current wars that we are engaged in, we are not practicing a strategy that will result in their defeat. Only shooting the ones that are shooting at us first is not a strategy to win a war. How would World War 2 have ended if we, instead of dropping bombs on Japan, we went in and only attacked the Kamikaze fighters? That's essentially what we are doing in the Middle East, right now.

We should have declared war on "Radical Islam", not "Terrorism." Terrorism is just a tactic that is being used, similar to kamikazes.

As for your poor attempts at drawing a comparison, if I had actually advocated mass slaughter (which I didn't), or better yet, if I suggested that we tie up every Muslim man and boys old enough to have pubic hair, and behead them in batches, and sell the women and children into slavery, then you would have an adequate comparison to what Muhammad did at Banu Qurayza. And, if in 1400 years people are worshiping me as the greatest man who ever lived, then the comparison would be pretty much spot on with Muhammad.

Nice try, though.

 

I read it well enough to understand if you were able to get away with it you would adopt that strategy. It isn't viable in your own words but, you even considered it for a moment.

The Japanese wore Uniforms, Had Banners/Flags and had Compounds that were clearly understood to be Japanese. We're fighting people who wear Common Clothing and are fighting them in their own turf... The British learned their lesson and you think we would have learned ours in Vietnam. To advocate a Policy which is the reason that incites them to commit such acts to begin with is completely illogical. There is no chance at all winning such a "War"...

 

Amazing how you have the ability to read my thoughts!

Oh yes, yes, it's all our fault. Even the violence that has permeated their societies since the 7th century and beyond. It's all political.

Masochism is one thing, but the sheer amount of self loathing that liberals have for themselves and the West in general is simply ridiculous.

 

Brewskier - perhaps you can tell me why the CIA is wrong and you are right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)

The CIA claims that the US was hit because we have been involved in the ME for 60 years. I'd like to know why we should listen to you rather than the experts in this case? Have you read the 9-11 commission report?

Please explain where the CIA is wrong.

The interesting thing about Ron Paul is that he predicted 9-11. I really wish he was more aggressive in pointing out the absurdity that is our foreign policy.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hJTisovvjc"]Ron Paul Predicted 9/11 a Decade Ago!!!!!!!!!!!! - YouTube[/ame]

I dunno if someone hated me - I may just ask them why and listen

I guess I'm an extremist.

 

Another set of Ron Paul predictions.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Gfzgxh3ZQ&NR=1"]The Amazingly Accurate Predictions of Ron Paul - YouTube[/ame]

I'd rather have someone like him in the Oval Office rather than empty suits who know nothing but public opinion polls.

 

Robert Spencer?! Oh no! I guess the Paul campaign may as well give up and go home.
/end snark

 

Actually the CIA and the National Intelligence Estimate both cited US military interventionism in the Middle East as a primary motivation for terrorist attacks against the United States. Apparently citing what the CIA and NIE have previously established is considered to be siding terrorists and we must assume that the US intellengence services are siding with terrorists.

 

Finished reading your post (short one)

 

The reason I don't like spencer is because he thinks it's ok to claim that someone is a terrorist because he follows the same religion as Osama Bin Laden, but will not agree that it has to go the other way as well.....that, using that logic, one could say that all christians are Klansmen since the KKK is a 100% christian organization.

 

The soldiers that have been on the front lines disagree with you. The most qualified judges of our foriegn policy say your full of (*)(*)(*)(*). I am one of those people who put skin and blood in the game as a soldier in the arab world. I earned the right through experience and sacrifice to say you are full of (*)(*)(*)(*).

It is not unpatriotic to point out that criminal elements in our government have exploited our Military. You dont stand for the american troops overseas dieng in wars of colonialism and Corporate sponsered special interest. You stand for the status quo and cheap oil.

Ron paul is the only politician out there who tells it like it is. Our foriegn policy (*)(*)(*)(*) well makes us a target of extremists. We go around the world toppling governments as it suits us, corrupting governments.. as long as they have something we want and they are weak enough.. they are a target.

Why dont we invade China or Russia and take thier (*)(*)(*)(*)? Why dont we go mess around in North Korea with their weapons of mass destruction? Its because our government steals from the weak. A true patriot has a responsibility to point out the attackers of the constitution, that takes a brave man/woman.. anybody can be a lapdog for the status-quo.. thats short term easy.

WTF is a true blue conservative?... an idiot who is cyanotic because he has to be told when to breathe by the mob?... or a Neocon globalist who thinks that they have the right to exploit all the world?

 

You must think that they attacked us because they hate freedom.

When did sheep learn to type?

 

If you agree with Spencer you don't understand the motivation for 9/11.

 

There are serious differences that you are glancing over, most likely on purpose. For starters, there are no scriptures in the Bible that support what the Klan did. Jesus did not do anything that could have motivated the Klan to target other races. Whereas with Islam, Muhammad actually commanded Muslims to go to war with unbelievers. He spelled it out quite clearly, the whole world belongs to Allah, and those who reject him are to be fought against until Allah's law (Sharia) becomes the law of the land everywhere. The parts of the Qur'an that were revealed later to Muhammad are considered to be the most relevant and those writings deal primarily with war and how to defeat the unbelievers. These later writings abrogated all of the "peaceful" verses that were written much earlier in Muhammad's prophetic career, before he commanded an army and became the warlord that he was.

This supremacist idea is responsible for multiple waves of Islamic conquest and jihad, which occurred at different points throughout the last 1400 years. Most of this occurred shortly after Muhammad's death, with the last one occurring in the late 17th century, when they were defeated at the Gates of Vienna, which kept them from conquering all of Europe. This recent resurgence in their aggression is just them readying themselves for another wave of conquest. This time, in addition to war, they are using mass immigration and overbreeding as acts of war, and it has been very successful. By 2050, several Western European countries will be majority Muslim if current trends continue.

Ron Paul is ignorant about all of these things, so of course he is going to pick an easy answer out of the list of possibilities, and it's the one that will resonate loudly with the liberal, politically correct section of his base. We would love to believe that if we just stayed out of the Middle East, these people will all of a sudden abandon violence and we'll all get along, however that is not the reality of the situation. The truth that we have a modern day totalitarian political force that is threatening us is too uncomfortable to think about, so we just choose not to think about it.

 

Trying to capture the military vote by promising to bring them home, and never sending them out again, is part of Ron Paul's quick fix, easy answer, path-of-least-resistance decision making. It'll make the troops happy, but it may not be what is best for the country.

Oh, and genius, you will have noticed over the past several years that gas prices are not low, and have not been low for a very long time, despite our intervention in those areas. It's part of your fictitious narrative that we are taking over the oil wells in those parts of the world, but that's simply not the case.

You sound like many Libertarians. You would be a typical liberal, if it weren't for a few key issues. Usually drugs and war. Liberals aren't liberal enough for people like you. The fiscal stuff probably takes a major back seat, doesn't it?

They are a primitive culture of people who want to live in the 7th century. They have a dangerous totalitarian political ideology that they cloak in their "religion" so that nobody dares to question them. Their ideology is the problem, and its been that way for 1400 years.

More liberal talking points. Err, sorry, "libertarian".

Two of those countries are supposedly our allies, that's why. As for North Korea, we probably should do something about them. They pose a lot more of a risk than the Libyans ever did. We should have done something when North Korea started firing on South Korea not too long ago. Of course, with Obama as POTUS, that wasn't going to happen. He's not a strong leader, and the world knows it.

What is your evidence that I am for the "status-quo"? Because I don't like Paul's terrorist sympathizing foreign policy? Look around long enough and you will notice other Ron Paul fans admitting that they have their reservations about his foreign policy as well. The guy doesn't have a clue about what the real cause of these problems are. He, like most liberals, would rather blame ourselves and retreat to our corner of shame, when we are not responsible for what a bunch of neanderthal Islamic terrorists do and believe.

It's someone who actually believes in following the Constitution. It's someone who actually believes in fiscal and personal responsibility. It's not someone who simply pays lip service to these ideas, eager to jump onto the anti-war, pro-drug bandwagons, like many Libertarians.

 

Apparently the terrorists who actually performed the 9/11 attacks don't understand their own motivation either, considering how most of them created video wills explaining how their motivation was derived from the Qur'an and Islamic theology.

 

You tell me, you're the one using stale and dated MSNBC talking points.

You "hate America first" Libertarians and liberals are the ones who need to do a better job of understanding why 9/11 happened. You can't account for the history of Islamic violence and conquest that has existed for almost 1400 years, long before any of the recent political excuses existed. Even though the terrorists make absolutely no secret whatsoever that they are simply following in the footsteps of Muhammad and living out what their religion is telling them to do, you are the ones who can't take their word for it, and choose to blame ourselves for their barbarism.

With liberals, I can understand. Their multicultural project is failing, and they don't want to admit that their pet minority groups are causing huge amounts of harm. With Libertarians, I think it's just ignorance. Ron Paul says something, and his loyal sheeple go around repeating it, without ever understanding it.

 

Violence has existed from every Civilized Nation and Religion... so should we just broad stroke anything of the past or current as Violent? To point and say "Islam is a Religion out to kill people because their Prophet committed such acts." is to condemn every religion and Civilized Nation for their past misdeeds, morals, acts and intrepretations. Libertarians aren't ignorant... we're just not buying the bull(*)(*)(*)(*) anymore as if our Foreign Policy of coups and bombings really helps protect us. The foreign policy we have currently has only driven the people we resent/hate today to the point of killing innocents and/or committing suicide to murder. There may be the few cases of idiots but, those reside in every Custom or Belief... your use of simply saying the Islamic Religion is inherently Evil is repulsive.

 

I didn't know following the Constitution involved debasing the currency, launching unprovoked Wars, Establishing 900+ bases across the globe, setting up coups to replace elected leaders with Pro-American Dictators, and passing laws that are effectively destroying the first 10 Amendments.

 

Talking about being clueless, you have a nerve. All that wasted dribble. Look at history. You are like most Americans, you dont remember the past. If your homeland had been occupied for over 50 + years by someone trying to best your culture and religion, laughing at you behind your back and sometimes to your face, maintaining a military presense in your country, pushing you our of your homes...HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? People today forget the past and think of now only. RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT...

 

Apparently citing the CIA and the NIE which established that a primary reason behind Islamic terrorist attacks on the US was US military interventionism predominately in the Middle East correlates to being anti-American.

It seems that some believe that to be pro-America a person is supposed to hide their head in the sand and ignore the facts.

 

Obama says lots of things. Do you believe them ?

Having difficulty seeing through political rhetoric and propaganda ?
Don't despair, most children have difficulty too.

 

Ron Paul is indeed a Neville Chamberlain type. He would be a weak president.

 

So I see you making a claim but, there is no meat to your argument. Welcome to the Political Forums, do you mind actually explaining your thoughts and basing it with logic rather than "He is bad!"?

 

Unless you're a vibrant nationalist, you're obviously an "Anti American".

 

Sure, he hates imperialist genocide, misogyny, wife-beating, pedophoilia, kidnapping, slavery, animal killing, torture, mutilation, rape, robbery. Why would anyone not hate those things ?

PS - have you read his books ? ? > Stealth Jihad and The PolitiCally Incorrect Guide to Islam (AND THE CRUSADES)