Russia’s newest Su-30 multirole jets and Su-24 bombers practiced attack runs on NATO

Re: Hitler

After Germany surrendered, all of the German flag officers and most of the field commanders were debriefed by the allies. One question everyone being debriefed was asked, "Why do you think Germany lost the war" ?

They all mentioned Hitler, a corporal who micromanaged the war. But what was mentioned almost as much was that Germany failed to fight a total war until it was to late and the war was already lost. Germany didn't go on a total war footing until late 1942/43. Where as the USSR, UK and the USA went on a total war footing from day one of hostilities.

Total war being that the civilian population had to be 100% engaged in the war effort. The civilian population has to make great sacrifices at home. The German people from 1938 to 1942 always wanted their bratwurst, beer, cigarettes, chocolate, petro for their Mercedes or Peoples Car, new shoes, etc.

In America, on January of 1942 those tires on your car had to last you until the end of the war. You could only purchase so many gallons of gas per week, I think it was five gallons and a few more if you worked in the defense industry. You had a stamp book and could only purchase so much meat, butter, cooking oil, etc. per month. Even the clothing you wore was regulated, the zoot suit became illegal because it used to much material. It would lead to the Zoot Suit Riots in L.A. during WW ll.

A REFLECTION ON THE CAUSES OF THE GERMAN DEFEAT
by GENERALOBERST LOTHAR RENDULIC

Summary.
Germany lost the last war for purely military reasons.
I. Blunders of the High Command, especially Adolf Hitler.
1. Excessive self-confidence of Adolf Hitler.
2. Overrating of importance of holding territory. (Wrong impressions gained from World War I.)
3. Increasing mistrust of Generals.
4. Wrong ideas on air warfare. (Wrong development of the Air Force, too few fighters!)
5. Commanding officers of the Waffen-SS units mostly insufficiently trained and net prepared for their tasks.
II. Wrong Employment of Manpower. No total Mobilization. Wrong Distribution of available Manpower.
1. Disregard of the Army (neglecting the fact that the Army has to bear the main burden of all fighting).
2. Excessive manpower used in all administrative and economic civilian offices and in the whole apparatus of the N.S.D.A.P. (especially the miscellaneous organizations of Himmler, Reich Labor Service and others).
3. Four completely separated components of the Armed Forces with special agencies for supply, etc.
4. Insufficient replacements for the Army in spite of the heavy losses. Preference given to the Air Force and the Waffen-SS, not only in quantity but also in quality.

It starts here -> http://www.allworldwars.com/A-Reflection-on-the-Causes-of-the-German-Defeat-by-Rendulic.html

 

Yorr an Historian aren’t you APACHRAT
I’ll be careful mixing WORDS with U

Lluv my Adveraries - They are my best friends
it's only them that have a worthwhile Challenge

they make you THINK
they are not One liners.U good

.
.

 

You mean the stuff used to knock out the USS frigate? Putin is already firing shots wherever he thinks he can get away with it, and the best you can do is invent some conspiracy about Washington manufacturing a shift in the Ukraine back to the West LOL.
If only you walked your talk, I bet you'd change your talk real fast.

 

Allright - I know ( I'm going to get burned for this )
......................... probably thrown off the Force
......................... probably Deleteted
......................... probably Banned


BUT axilturban is pretty good too
He just got 3 lines in

Butt he's still measurint the SIZE of his]
Military- HARD_ware


..
.

 

Oh come now.
Don't forget Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov was in Siberia,
far, far away from Stalin and his purges. No doubt a competent General.
I always like the idea it was his Siberian troop who arrived in Moscow to take on frozen Germans.
Those Siberians must have thought, "what harsh Winter"
And of course their mechanized divisions had lubricants that lubricated and fuels that ignited at such cold temperatures.
The Nazis on the other hand were still equipped for a Summer campaign.
Stalin had a few competent Soviet commanders he finally allowed to "command".


Moi


r > g

No ​

 

I am proving you are wrong with three links. I have the quotes in red and italics, so from now on stop shooting you're mouth off about things you know nothing about. I have had you on ignore for a long time but somehow you can't take the hint. People like you never do. Instead you just keep on responding to my posts.

Well unlike you, I know Russian history. I know it was Churchill who told Roosevelt that the people in Saint Petersburg were starving because of the German blockade and I know that's why he started the lend lease program. The ships would land in Iran or Vladisvostok and the Russians would jump in the trucks and head north. They would cross the frozen Lake Ladoga in the winter, and relieve the people.

Anyway here's the link:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385548/posts

"...90 percent of lend-lease cargo was not military..."

"...Russians would just jump into the trucks which came to the Iranian border and head North,” the professor said..."


As for people starving under German occupation:

"...In the occupied regions Nazi Germany had a policy of forced confiscation of food that resulted in the famine deaths of an estimated 6% of the population, 4.1 million persons..."

"...entire factories were moved east of the Ural Mountains to put them out of reach of the Germans...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_combat_vehicle_production_during_World_W

 

Putin smart enough.

P/S:
But you have to remember - Alaska, California and New York. Accept the inevitable.

 

I'll tell you one episode of the Korean War.
October 30, 1951, when the US Air Force tried to bomb the Korean airfield in NAMSA. And when flying fortress suffered very heavy losses, and raid ended in nothing.
On the American side in the raid was attended by about 200 fighters cover different types and 21 B-29 bombers. They were opposed by 56 MiG-15, which were located Myaogou and Antung. Directly in a dogfight attended 44 fighters, while another 12 were held in reserve to cover the aerodrome in case of breaking through to him the enemy.
American planes were intercepted on the way to NAMSA. The fate of the air battle was a foregone conclusion. 22 pairs of Soviet fighters in a rapid dive through the system of American fighter cover at a speed of 1000 km / h bombers attacked, opened fire with their 132 guns.
His first attack "MiG-15" was devastating. Many B-29s were shot down. Some aircraft managed to escape to the sea. To airfield NAMSA October 30 did not fall a single bomb.
Americans lost in battle 12 B-29 and several F- 84, many American planes were damaged, while the Soviet side lost only one MiG-15.

 

You are absolutely right. No one trusts the US politicians.

P/S:
Dear Jeannette, today [March 8] in Russia celebrate Women's Day. All Russian men congratulate women and give them presents. I want to congratulate you and all American women with International Women's Day. Good luck and happiness for you.

 

I believe you 'history' is off a little. Your raid is dated in October 30 1951 but all B29 raids had been suspended on 27 Oct after a total of 5 B29's were shot down over the entire month to that date and the aircraft were getting new radars. By th end of he war the total B29 losses were 34 in over 20,000 sorties wile those aircraft managed 16 MIG15 kills.

Actually, I cannot find any record of any B29 raids between 27 Oct and early November 1951. After Nov 1951 raids were done at night using radar.

 

Those who fought against the Russian soldiers of a different opinion. Read blog Otto Skorzeny ... or saying Bismarck. Or diaries of German soldiers of the Second World War.
For Example. Napoleon said: "Give me a hundred Cossacks, and I will conquer the whole world with them".

Joseph Goebbels: "The fortitude - courage is inspired by spirituality. Tenacity, on which the Bolsheviks defended in their pillboxes in Sevastopol, akin to a certain animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to regard it as the result of the Bolshevik beliefs or upbringing. Russian always been so and will likely always remain so "

"Russian soldiers insufficiently kill - it must also fell to the ground." These words of Frederick II (pronounced after the Battle of Zorndorf)

Ludwig von Kleist, Field Marshal, World War II: "Russian from the outset showed himself as a first-class warriors, and our success in the first months of the war were due simply the best preparation. Having gained combat experience, they have become first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional tenacity, had amazing endurance ... "

Gunther Blumentritt, General, Chief of Staff of the 4th Army, World War II: "Russian soldiers prefer melee. His ability to endure without flinching deprivation causes a real admiration. "

He: "The behavior of Russian troops even in the first battle was in striking contrast with the behavior of Poles and Western allies in the defeat. Even surrounded, Russian continued heavy fighting. They are always trying to break through to the east ... Our blockade Russian rarely successful. "

I think these people do not agree with the assessment of 3.6. Is not it?

 

You're right. It was October 23. Wrote from memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-15

 

Thank you! I want you to know that if the majority of American women knew what was really going on, and weren't deceived by the press, they would never allow Washington's criminality to go on.

 

Repeating the lie about the airliner, without any authenticated facts having been provided, discredits everything you write. I don't think its ignorance, so your agenda becomes very obvious.

 

Russians soldiers have always been known for their bravery. I don't know where these people are coming from with their stupidities. Seems they just want to say whatever they can to annoy others.

 

I know it. I also know that most Americans are kind and open people. But, unfortunately, American politicians today - bloodthirsty beasts. And to my regret, the first victim of the crazy politicians - is the American people.

 

Incidentally, President Lincoln was on friendly terms with the Russian Tsar Alexander 2. They conducted extensive personal correspondence.

 

I was referring to the Soviet soldier of WW ll, not before or after the "Great Patriot War."

Condoleezza Rice wrote an excellent paper on what Joseph Stalin did to the Soviet army before the war and it's comparable to what Obama has been doing to our military today.

Stalin purged the Soviet army's officer corps of it best generals and field commanders and replaced then with yes men.

Obama has been doing the same thing.

Stalin then embedded the military with political officers.

Obama has his diversity officers who are nothing more than political officers who are suppose to over see the social engineering of our military.

During and after the war German infantry men were asked what they thought of the Russian soldier ? They said they were stupid. That Soviet soldiers would hold a position knowing it couldn't be defended and allowed themselves to be either captured or killed when they could have fallen back, regrouped and take up a new defensive position.

The Soviet soldier feared that if they were to fall back and take up a new position they would be shot by their political officers.

 

Here is what writes Joseph Goebbels. (you will agree that this is the best source of information about Stalin and Russian. At least, it can not be suspected of sympathizing)
(Die Tagebücher von Joseph Goebbels. Sämtliche Fragmente. 1987. München)


March 5, 1945 g .: "The Fuhrer again sharply criticized the General Staff ... The Fuehrer is right in saying ... that Stalin timely spent reform [Cleaning the commanders of the Red Army] and therefore is now has benefits. If such a reform would be imposed on us today our defeats, for success it was too late "

March 16, 1945 g .: "General Staff gives me a book with biographical data and portraits of Soviet generals and marshals. From this book, it is easy to gather a variety of information about what mistakes we have made in the past years. These marshals and generals, on average only young, almost none of them older than 50 years. They are very energetic people ... and their faces can read that they have good folk starter ... I have to do unpleasant conclusion that the leaders of the Soviet Union came from a good popular strata than our own .. . I tell the Fuhrer about vested in me to see the book of the General Staff of the Soviet marshals and generals, adding that I had the impression that we are generally unable to compete with such leaders. Fuhrer fully shares my opinion. Our generals too old outlived its usefulness ... that speaks of the immense superiority of the Soviet generals. "

I wrote to you - read the memoirs of those who fought against Russian troops in reality, not papers moronic politicians. But if you're too lazy to do it. Remember - who took Berlin.

"Those damned Russian fought like devils ..." (Sanger F. "No fear, no hope ..." P.67)
"Russian proven themselves skilled hardy and fearless soldiers, smashing to smithereens our old prejudices about racial superiority" (G. Metelman through hell ... page 288, 294)

This is a lie. "Defensive squads" were placed (sometimes) behind the main forces for capture spies, saboteurs and deserters. To prevent panic. His example returns the fleeing soldiers into battle.
June 27, 1941 The third control Commissariat of Defense of the USSR publishes directive number 35523 on the work of the NKVD in time of war. In it, in particular, has been provided: Organization of mobile defensive squads with the objectives of:
a) The arrest of deserters;
b) arrest all suspicious elements penetrated the front line;
c) preliminary investigation, produced by operational officers of the Third controls (1-2 days) with subsequent transfer of material together with the detainees to the jurisdiction.

Condoleezza Rice - lying.


P/S:
Photo -Bonus for you.

 

looks like Putin has been doing LSD again.

 

You are aware that Joseph Goebbels was the Reich Minister of Propaganda.

You are aware that Hitler was a socialist just like Joseph Stalin, both surrounded themselves with yes men.

 

First, you only posted two links genus.

Second. What was the point of your first point and link? "90% of the lend lease was none military". Yes. I never said anything to the contrary. And so what? Did you not read your own source moron ? It did you just randomly type on google searches and saw a sentence that you thought would support your bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and then just posted it here? You realize his next sentence specifically supports MY ORIGINAL CLAIM! I stated fact that the Russians won because they were able to out produce the Germans specifically in vehicles. And that this was largely due to the vast quantity of supplies and vehicles, vehicle parts, and metals that the US PROVIDED. Your own (*)(*)(*)(*)ing source makes this exact same claim and in the very next sentence that you tried to flunt to us as evidence of your ignorance he even days this. Congratulations (insert something insulting since It would be banned by the mods otherwise)

Third. The starvation. Yes. Germany force starvation in occupied territories. No one disclaimed this. It however DOES NOT change the fact that Russia had a scorch earth policy as they retreated east. It was because of this policy that the Germans in turn went with the force starvation policy because there wasn't enough good to feed both the German soldiers and the occupied citizens. In the end, Russia is responsible for those deaths. Deal with it.

Forth. SOME FACTORIES. but the vast majority were left behind. And were only moved AFTER they were invaded. Not before like they should have done. Stalin trusted his best friend and ally hitler to much.

 

For what possible reason or purpose would an American say...F-22, F-35, F-18 Superhornet, F-15C,E,,,etc..F-16........why would such American Fightter Aircraft ever...EVER.....want to screw around making airial displayes when they would use their much more advanced avionics, fire control systems and air to air missiles NEVER MIND THE STEALTH CAPABILITIES OF THE F-22 AND F-35.....why would they be screwing around making mid air spins when they COULD BE DETROYING RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT WHOLESALE!!???

An Improved F-15C is perfectly capable of destroying a Su-30 never mind an F-22 Raptor which could by itself take on 12 Su-30's BY ITSELF and destroy ALL TWELVE!!!

We....the United States....are NOT EVEN BUILDING OR DESIGNING MANNED FIGHTER AIRCRAT ANYMORE!!!

As example.....the X-47B.....a Robotic Fighter/Attack Aircraft that we have already both landed and taken off from U.S. Nuclear Carriers.

And the X-47B......IS AN OLD DESIGN!!!!

When an aircraft which is either a Fighter or Attack or Combination of both F/A....like the F-22 and F-35....is designed to be a FULLY ROBOTIC SELF AUTONOMOUS FIGHTER/ATTACK AIRCRAFT....without the enormous amount of added weight necessary TO KEEP A HUMAN PILOT ALIVE.....as well not have built in MANUEVERING GOVERNORS to prevent a Pilot form PASSING OUT OR DYING as the United States has been able for multiple decades capable of making fighter aircraft that can manuever and fly in ways THAT WILL KILL A HUMAN PILOT.........well....


THIS IS WHY THE F-22'S WILL NOT BE BUILT IN LARGE NUMBERS!!!

The USAF F/A-22 Raptor when operating in full STEALTH MODE....is UNDEFEATABLE.

The Eurofighter or Typhoon which is a much more capable 4th Generation Aircraft that the Russian Su-30 went up against American F-22's in Red Flag Alaska....after the first week the German Typhoon Team almost went home.

The problem was that when a brace...ie....2.....F-22 Raptors went up in mock battle against the German Typhoons and when the F-22's were operating in COMPLETE STEALTH MODE...the F-22's would swoop in undetected and detroy the German Typhoons just as fast as te German Typoons detected the F-22 Missle Launch...but by that time it was too late.

So a brace...ie...2...F-22 Raptors went up against 4 Typhoons.....then 6...then 8.....then 10....then 12....but the RESULTS WERE ALL THE SAME!!!!

The Eurofighter or Typhoon IS A GREAT AIRCRAFT!!!

But it is Gen. 4.

The F-22 Raptor is Gen. 5 as the USAF SKIPPED AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF AIRCRAFT DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE!!!

The F-35....although it has some issues that are currently being fixed.....has a more advanced Avionics and Fire Control System than the F-22.....and the SURVIVABILITY of the F-35 is IT'S GREATEST ASSET FOR NATIONS THAT CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY HUGE NUMBERS OF AIRCRAFT!!!

You know what caused the German Typhoon Pilots and Team not to go home after the first week?

The German's conceided that when the F-22 was operating as it would in WAR TIME CONDITIONS....thus is FULL STEALTH MODE.....and because the F-22 has a highly advanced form of ENGINE EXHAUST COOLING METHOD.....which makes the F-22 ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TRACK WITH IR-SYSTEMS AND CLOSE TO IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT DOWN WITH A HEAT SEAKER OR IR-LIGHT DETECTING MISSILE.....what happened was this....

The USAF allowed the Typhoons to DETECT THE F-22's.....and a few methods were tried...one by leaving an open radio beacon active on all F-22's so the German Typhoons could track them...and another method that is been kept classified by which Typhoons were allowed to track the F-22's.

Because of this and because in Alaskan Red Flag.....THE PURPOSE IS NOT TO BEAT UP ON THE OTHER TEAM!!! IT IS TO EXPERIENCE SIMULATED COMBAT AND AS WELL EXPERIENCE HAVING F-22'S AND GERMAN TYPHOONS WORKING TOGETHER AGAINST A COMMON ENEMY!!!

The problem was.....when the F-22 fly's in TOTAL STEALTH MODE.....it cannot be shot down!!!

The Eurofighter Typhoonis a better all around Fighter Aircraft than the Su-30.....but yet a brace of F-22's is fully capabe of destroying 12 or more Typhoons EASILY.....and a brace of F-22's would be able to shoot down 12 or more Su-30's even easier than that.

Here is the thing.....the F-35's are designed both as STOL....Short Takeoff and Landing...and designed as VTOL....Vertical Takeoff and Landing.....thus designed for battlefield landing and takeoffs for ammo and missle resuply as well as designed for Carrier Takeoff.

The F-35 is a SUPER SURVIVABLE AIRCRAFT as with it;s STEALTH CAPABILITY.....for a Nation like Australia that does not have the money to buy huge numbers of Fighter/Attack Aircraft....thus a smaller number of Aussie F-35's could with the help of converted USAF. B-1B Bombers carrying over 300 Highly Advanced and Long Range Air to Air Misiles.....say.....12 Aussie F-35's.....and 350 Incoming Chinese J-10's......

.......after the Aussie F-35's using their INTEGRATED FORE CONTROL SYSTEMS used up most of their own personal Air to Air Missiles......could use their Highly Advanced Avionics and Fire Control Systems to effectively LAUNCH AIR TO AIR MISSILES FROM THE AMERICAN B-1B BOMBER CAPABLE OF FLYING AT SUPERSONIC VELOCITIES THUS ABLE TO CIRCLE AND PLACE IT'S SELF IN POSSITIONS FAVORABLE FOR THE AUSSIE F-35'S TO CONTINUE TO FIRE THE AIR TO AIR MISSILES CARRIED BY THE B-1B!!!

This 12 Aussie F-35's and ONE...1...USAF B-1B AA Missile Carrier are capable of shooting down and detroying 350 Chinese J-10 Fighter/Attack Aircraft.

In a REAL WAR.....More than just one B-1B would be flying and the Aussies would be backed by the MASSIVE U.S PACIFIC FLEETS AND THEIR CARRIERS AND SUPERHORNETS!!

But that is TODAY.

By TOMMORROW.....we will have replaced Manned Aircraft.....as the X-47B has shown us a Fighter/Attack Aircraft that does not need to dedicate vast amounts of it's systems TO KEEP A HUMAN PILOT ALIVE.....can move in ways so sudden and so quick in angular velocity that no manned Piloted Aircraft could come CLOSE to competing with it.

USAF and USN and USM Corps......ROBOTIC SELF AUTONOMOUS STEALTH FIGHTER/ATTACK AIRCRAFT will be able to fly and keep on station for 12 to 48 hours or more.

They cannot be HACKED...because they will be SELF AUTONOMOUS.

No Human Pilot thus no ejection seat or system thus no 02 thus no canopy thus no sticks or paddles or bottons thus less weight thus more speed and manuverability thus smaller AIRCRAFT capable of carrying more air to air and mud moving weapons thus less fuel goes a LONG WAY!!!

While you Russian's are talking about the greatness of the Su-30....and I really have no IDEA what possible good thing you can say about the Su-24......WE....will be getting ready for Tommorrow....as we already OWN TODAY!!

AboveAlpha

 

I do not possess fancy title of "Destroyer of illusions"... but here is my penny.
1) You can stop mentioning word "stealth" in context related to aircraft - that's a myth. It "works" only against someone, who's only AA defence is a giant cartoon slingshot.
2) F22 is an overpriced vulnerable to rain bucket of bolts. I doubt that it can take down anything at all, even at abstract ideal conditions, since Russians achieved superiority at both AAM and SAM missiles during last decade. Also check the first line. Corruption, indeed, is strong in this one.
3) F-35 is basically still a weaponless prototype - in other words, also an overpriced flying bucket of bolts.
4) I'll skip your delusional fantasies about transformers and invincible plastic planes...
5) I say, if aircraft has digital components or any kind of software running, don't have Faraday cage around it and few dozens meters of concrete - it can be hacked. As I'm aware Russians excel at remote hacking (drones for example) or jamming and such...
Aircraft is the weakest link in US military now.

 

Google....X-47B...it has already demonstrated it can take off and land on and from U.S. Carriers.

It can run in Robotic Self Autonomous Mode thus it CANNOT BE HACKED!!

We are not building eith the F-22's or the F-35's in great numbers because the aircraft which are STEALTH and without Pilot...and are Self Autonomous...are the future of Fighter/Attack and Heavy Bomber Aircraft.

They are here NOW....and we can manufacture them in massive numbers cheaply.

Still...although without a doubt Russian Ground to Air Missle Systems are Highly Advanced....they can be taken out with HARM MISSILES fired by Wild Weasel Wings.

As well we can burn out most of the Russian AA Missile Guidence Systems.

The problems with Russian Air Defense is not that they are not capable of designing and manufacturing great AA Systems....it is just they cannot aford to develop NOWHERE NEAR ENOUGH OF THEM!!!

It''s like the T-90 Tank....Great Tank.....how many do the Russian's have?

Let's count......One....Two.....three.....FOUR!!! YES!!! FOUR BATTLE CAPABLE AND READY T-90 RUSSIAN TANKS!!! THE COUNT LOVES IT!!!

Todays post was bought to you by the NUMBER 4 AND THE LETTER F....as in Putin is F@#%ED!

AboveAlpha