Russia caught lying again. Finally admits truth about MH17

It does not matter in terms of laws and agreements. Many laws have not changes since that time.

 

"Near complete" is highlighted by black

 

Which explains why Russia is so desperate, they have to make friends with North Korea.

By the way, those labeled in black are the markets of the world. Without us, the world has nothing. We're ALL of China's revenue.

 

Many politicians of the past told same words

I would rather say thay are $ holders

You forgot China that holds almost all consumer electronics manufacturing

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=412317&p=1065089450#post1065089450

 

I will admit just as there are still retired former Old Soviet Communist Leaders who's entire LIVES were dedicated to the COLD WAR....so there were Old and Retired...some still not retired U.S. Military Leaders where both sides mistrusted one another and still do to this day.

But the U.S. really does not see Russia as much of an adversary anymore.

We are just worried that Putin will start something that Russia is not capable of dealing with either Economically, Militarily or Geopolitically.

The breaking of the DEAL.....we buy and destroy Soviet Weapons....Russia agrees to NEVER invade or harrass former Soviet States.....well this REALLY P!$$ED OFF the United States.

Russia on the other hand feels that the U.S. is in the process of CONTAINING RUSSIA....and to an extent Russia is correct but the U.S. is not bending the arms behind the backs of all these Nations that boarder Russia who so desperately want to join NATO as they do not trust Russia and for GOOD REASONS!!

I propose that IMMEDIATELY....a Summit should be attended by both Putin and Obama with the sole purpose of REDEFINING AND SETTING IN STONE A NEW PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES.

Putin really does not want to allow China unfettered access to Siberia.

But it seems highly unlikely Putin would ever agree to a Partnership when the U.S. would demand EXACT AND PRECISE ACCOUNTING!!

THAT....is the hold up and the problem.

The Money Russia and Putin are making currently selling Oiland Gas to China are TRIFLES compared to a Russia with an Economy that not only exports Energy but has a RUSSIAN POPULATION WITH GOOD PAYING JOBS WHICH WILL DEVELOP A SELF SUSTAINING INTERNAL ECONOMY like the U.S. has.

Most Products made in the U.S. are made for the people of the U.S.

Russia needs to develop this as well but it can't without JOBS!!!

How does Russia generate those JOBS?

A Partnership with the U.S. would do it and the Partnership would be beneficial for both Nations.

Within 5 years the Russian Economy with U.S. Help could rise from a paltry $1.98 Trillion to over $7 Trillion.

Russia as inexperienced in a free market economy and needs our experience and assistance and in return Massive U.S. Infrastructure, Super Cold Weather Development Engineering, Oil and Gas Drilling Tech....could increase Russian Oil and Gas Output by well over 10 Times what it currently exports but with a Russian Poulation that has JOBS thus Money.....a large percentage of this Oil and Gas COULD BE PURCHASED BY AVERAGE RUSSIAN'S as the U.S. helps Russia become a CONSUMER ORIENTATED ECONOMY along with being an Energy Exporter.

Plus both the U.S. and especially RUSSIA cannot allow China to grow too fast.

AboveAlpha

 

There did not even exist a problem in the Crimea until Putin sent Spetsnaz into the Crimea and they PAID large sums of Money to Russian Ukrainian's to become SEPERATISTS.

Yes there have been issues in the past but neither side was BOMBING ONE ANOTHER!!!

Plus Putin was extremely embarrassed this whole thing started during the Sochi Winter Olympics.

RUSSIA IS NOT A MILITARY THREAT TO EITH THE UNITED STATES OR EUROPE!!!

Nuclear Weapons are OBSOLETE and there is almost ZERO CHANCE they will be used against either side by either side.

But Putin is not doing things that are in the best interest of Russia!!!

Europe will no longer INVEST in Russian Companies as they GOT BURNED BADLY after Putin seized every single large scale Private Company in Russia!!!

The benefits that Average Russian's would gain from a Russian/American Partnership would be so great and so many this cannot be overstated.

So....Ordinary, Everyday Russian;s have to WAKE UP and ask themselves....do we continue to chear on a Russian Leader because he represents defiance of a Superpower in the United States?

OR.....

Do we decide we would LIKE TO MAKE SOME MONEY FOR A CHANGE WHICH IS SOMETHING THE AMERICAN'S ARE GOOD AT DOING!!??

AboveAlpha

 

Also was DEAL - US agrees to NEVER to attach former Soviet States in NATO. US broke this deal.

 

You don't know the history. And watched the news until last year. Crimea never thought of myself as Ukrainian and separatist movement there was always, since the separation of Ukraine from the USSR. A few links offhand:

1992: Crimea Parliament Votes to Back Independence From Ukraine

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/w...-votes-to-back-independence-from-ukraine.html

1994: Separatist Winning Crimea Presidency

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/31/world/separatist-winning-crimea-presidency.html

A separatist candidate who wants Crimea to leave Ukraine and integrate with Russia won more than 70 percent of the vote today in run-off presidential elections

2008: Crimean peninsula could be the next South Ossetia

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...a-could-be-the-next-south-ossetia-910769.html

And so on...

Were in Crimea and rallies, protests, riots on account of independence from Ukraine and return to Russia. No amount of money will pay for the loyalty and devotion of 90% of the population. As it is happening in Crimea.

And the fact that Russia saved Crimea from Ukrainian bombs, made now the population of the Crimea as the most loyal Russians. People in Crimea just happy that I escaped the fate of the rest of Ukraine, where the lawlessness of gangsters and oligarchs.

 

That was NOT part of the DEAL.

The U.S. told Russia it could not stop any Nation from applying to NATO as the U.S. is but one member of NATO and this would be against the NATO Charter.

If you disagree then FIND ONE WRITTEN OR SIGNED AGREEMENT OR TREATY between the U.S. and Russia that states this!!!

You will not find one BECAUSE NONE EXIST!!

AboveAlpha

 

You know and I know WHY he was removed!

KIEV — Ukraine's parliament voted to remove President Viktor Yanukovych on Saturday, even as the embattled leader remained defiant, calling the country's political crisis a "coup" and saying he has no intention of resigning or leaving the country.

"They are trying to scare me. I have no intention to leave the country. I am not going to resign, I'm the legitimately elected president," Yanukovych said in a televised statement. "What we see today is a coup — I did everything to prevent the bloodshed. We adopted two amnesty laws. We did everything to stabilize the political situation."

"I will do everything to protect my country from breakup, to stop bloodshed," he added.

In the vote, parliament also moved to have early elections on May 25. In a deal brokered Friday to stop the violence, early elections were set for December.

Lawmakers said the move to impeach was necessary. "Yanukovych is not capable of fulfilling his presidential duties," said opposition lawmaker Oleh Lyashko. Lawmakers will also consider banning the president from running in upcoming elections.

Meanwhile, imprisoned opposition leader and former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was released Saturday after spending 2 1/2 years in prison.

Hours after her release, the 53-year-old Tymoshenko spoke to a crowd gathered at Independence Square.

"No one could do what you have done, eliminate a tumor," she said "A dictator is gone and you are the heroes, you are the best of Ukraine. But you may not leave here until you finish the job and we go all the way."

"And now every person in our country must get the kind of life that these people died for," she added, referring to the dozens of protesters killed over the past week by government forces. "I believe in Ukraine."

On Saturday, the Health Ministry said the death toll in clashes between protesters and police had reached 82. Earlier, as many as 100 were reported killed.

Earlier Saturday, the opposition took control of the presidential palace on the outskirts of Ukraine's capital as Yanukovych flew to his base in the east and scores of his top party leaders resigned.

Units from the western city of Lviv, a stronghold of the opposition, took over the palace after making their way to the capital despite halted train service. At the same time, protesters took over key sections of Kiev, including the entire government district of the capital. Some protesters were reportedly stopping cars in search of government officials.

The head of the president's Party of Regions, Volodymyr Rybak — an ally of the president — announced his resignation. Yanukovych said that decision followed an attack on Rybak. The deputy head of parliament, Igor Kaletnik, also resigned.

Meanwhile, parliament moved to take over government power and held a session to appoint new ministers while lawmakers from the Party of Regions continued to resign. Parliament also appointed opposition leader Oleksander Turchynov as speaker.

Analysts said the situation is one of confusion.

"I think there is panic and they are not sure how to proceed next," said Vitaly Chernetsky, president of the American Association for Ukrainian Studies in Cambridge, Mass. "There have been a number of members of the ruling party's coalition in the parliament who have left factions of the ruling party. There is now fractions and tensions, and it is still hard to predict which ways things are going unfortunately because of the severity of the crisis and the bloodshed.

"But Yanuchovych has horrified people strongly enough that even the more hard-line representatives of the ruling regime are now reconsidering their actions."

The Party of Regions initiated a meeting Saturday of deputies of all levels (city councils, regional councils) of the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine in the eastern city of Kharkiv, where Yanukovych flew to.

Protesters say they believe the party intends to initiate a split of Ukraine. Despite a deal reached Friday that granted a number of concessions to the opposition including early elections, many protesters vowed to press on until Yanukovych steps down.

"People absolutely will stand till Yanukovych leaves his position," said 18-year-old protester Anna Sydor. "He is the one responsible for what happened. After all the deaths, I can't see how people could bear him sitting in the president's chair. It's not possible."

"They thought that people would flee the square after they shot at us," she added. "And — surprise — we didn't. Instead, even more people are coming, and they are angry."

Opposition leaders, who were booed and heckled Friday at Independence Square after agreeing to the deal brokered by France, Germany and Poland, seem to realize the street is in no mood for compromise.

"Millions of Ukrainians see only one choice — early presidential and parliamentary elections," announced opposition leader Vitaly Klitschko in a tweet.

The hard-won deal had moved elections up by one year, granted parliament greater powers over the president and agreed to a coalition government including the opposition. Lawmakers on Friday also decriminalized sections of the penal code, paving the way for the release of Tymoshenko and granting amnesty to all protesters.

The protests broke out in November following Yanukovych's unwillingness to sign a trade deal with the European Union and instead accept financial help from Russia. The protests remained largely peaceful until January, when up to five were killed. But the violence escalated earlier this week after the president's forces attacked following a broken truce, leaving dozens dead.

The streets were calm Friday, but more reinforcements from opposition strongholds continued to arrive to assist protesters who say they still have work to do and remain determined that the president should leave office.

A group of 40 police officers who rebelled against the command and arrived from the west of the country stood in the square in full uniform, unarmed. They were greeted with chants "You will be heroes!" and "The police is with people!"

"We are here because we gave the oath to protect the people of Ukraine and we want to really follow the oath," said Major Oleh Kormyliuk, 35. "More officers are coming soon. Here we will be doing what we usually do — maintaining order."

LINK....http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/22/ukraine-protests-kiev-president/5723135/

AboveAlpha...p.s...Even Putin called the man a murderous idiot and after what he did he had very little suport in the Crimea.

 

'Countries' don't have any freedom to choose. These are the corrupt ministers, presidents, sheikhs and other people who are hooked by US officials of the department of state and\or CIA.

 

Russia has been surrounded by enemies since the times that America stayed undiscovered. In 9-10 century Russia was surrounded by vikings (who eventually conquered and enslaved almost all the Europe), Eastern Roman Empire (in the times of its glory), Khazar caganate (a mighty semi-nomad state at southwestern borders of Russia). All these empires were either destroyed or allied or forced to political and economic counteractions.
In 15th century Russia was surrounded by Golden Horde (and the hordes which this empire split into), Rzech Pospolita (an empire of slavs and baltic tribes) and Swedish empire. All these empires were crushed and conquered, although Russia was weaker in every term of any of these.
In 18th century Russia was surrounded by Ottoman Empire, Prussia and we also had an invasion of the civilised europe which bowed to the war genius of Napoleon. The result was the same. Ottoman Empire who stayed as a main threat to christian (those days) europe was destroyed, Napoleon was strategically outplayed, Prussia was several times defeated.
20th century. Soviet Russia is surrounded by the Anti-Comintern Pact fascist states. Japan, Germany with its minions which included every european nation with tiny exclusions. In the second world war those countries got defeated by soviet people. Although the spoils of war were unequally shared between the countries who helped, served and sometimes was a part of fascist plague.
21st century US decided to 'surround' Russia... So be it.

 

Come on.....do you really think the United States want's to invade Russia?

No...we don't.

Not ever.

If we can work out a new DEAL....and become PARTNERS.....THERE IS nothing WE COULD NOT DO TOGETHER.

AboveAlpha

 

Well. I don't think that americans want to live in our land. It is too big and cold to maintain and you don't have that many people to need to settle them. What you want is a war of russians and (in the very best case) other russians. Such as ukrainians. Or georgians. Or at least baltic countries and polish. Any victims of such a war don't bring any loss to US. In the very best case you need a poor and capitulated Russia headed by your corrupt puppet, whose job will be to disarm Russia and to grant political businessmen of US the access to anything that brings profit, which is in our case resources. In particular oil and gas. Then you will probably invade some part of the territory in order to guard the property of your politicians from the 'uncivilised barbarians' - us.

This will not happen until you don't have the management in the White House which starts to think of
1. the world safety
2. US people
3. Decent behaviour in world policy.

With the corrupt killers and thieves like you have now - there cannot be any partnership and any positive results.

 

Killers and Thieves?

You are talking about Spetsnaz paying Russian Speaking Seperatists with Advanced Weapons and paid them to start a war which caused the annexation of part of another Nation.

AboveAlpha

 

These are the words for those whose actions kill and steal someone's property to their pocket.

Southeastern Ukraine is speaking Russian. Historically. Even central Ukraine is speaking ukrainian only in case when they have political conversation with russians.
As for the people of Donbass they don't care about whose land it is from the viewpoint of Uncle Sam. The land where they live is theirs. And if they need to kill a million of americans with the help of my money to protect their land from you - I will give my last penny to them.

 

I can't believe you just posted that.

AboveAlpha

 

Not my problem.

 

If you live in Russia it certainly is a problem.

AboveAlpha

 

I do live in Russia, but I don't care what you believe or not. It's none of my business.

 

I guess... You will not find WRITTEN OR SIGNED AGREEMENT OR TREATY too what you say - between the U.S. and Russia - U.S buy and destroy Soviet Weapons....Russia agrees to NEVER invade or harrass former Soviet State!!
show me this by written AGREEMENT? It was orally, between friends, and about not expansion of NATO too, same...

 

It was an unconstitutional decision. The impeachment procedure was not followed.

 

The U.S. has long no one wants to capture. Nowadays it is no state need. USA is interested in the collapse and chaos in Russia. The best thing for US to be in Russia, became also, as in the Ukraine or the middle East.

 

The Impeachment Process was not fully followed because Yanukovych decided to arrest and imprison or kill any opposition leaders that opposed him.

I am certain you know that at first Putin was pleased that Pro-Russian Yanukovych was elected but when Yanukovych started breaking the rules of the Ukrainian Constitution.....arresting anyone that opposed him as the moment he took office he jailed just about every opposition leader he could find....and finally when even the POLICE TURNED ON Yanukovych.....he fled the Ukraine to Russia.

Putin was said to want Yanukovych's HEAD ON A PLATTER for screwing up so badly an oppertunity for a Pro-Russian President to rule the Ukraine.....and for a while Yanukovych hid from Putin.

Yanukovych's orders to KILL PEACEFUL PROTESTORS was the final straw and at that point it was no longer an issue of IMPEACHMENT but an issue of ARRESTING Yanukovych FOR ORDERING THE KILLINGS AND DEATHS OF SO MANY PEOPLE.

Even Russian Speaking Crimean's with close ties to Russia wanted Yanukovych GONE as by that point he was an embarrasment!!!

AboveAlpha