Russia retaliates after pilot is killed in rebel-held Syria. (Comments on YouTube)

you do realise I think your comments are empty

 

1. I am saying that because the opposition of 'attacker-defender' doesn't work in a modern world. These things are always interpreted and never come as an undisputable anywhere except for propaganda.
2. Russia needs to understand what kind of weapon was used to shoot down the plane and who is staying behind it. The body of the pilot was returned. I don't see it as a revenge of any kind. People in the thread might disagree and being driven by emotions tell something that makes someone think that this is a revenge. But in fact Russia is performing a very rational and cold-blooded operation in Syria. So far Russia is winning which makes its opponents really mad. The game of Mattis is completely broken. Their plan was to overthrow Assad and invite ISIS to replace him. The bombing of ISIS has already been evaluated as 'inefficient' long before Russia intervened. Then the US would always push any decision with Syrian resources or territory (buying warlords or killing them if needed). And they will also have a tough bargain with the EU making them pay for 'protection'. A few dozens of terrorist attacks on European cities and the Europeans would riot themselves to make them pay any money...
The plan has crashed. The US started with 'moderate rebels' soon finding that they are ISIS itself. Then they tried to overthrow Erdogan to use Turkey. Now they are with kurds who proved themselves as a power in the region. Lately even Israel started to be used. But at the moment even if these sides win they are not able to control Syria and replace ISIS. They can just extend war time for another year making peace negotiations more difficult.

 

You don't read. Which doesn't depend on quantity of symbols. Your reading represents looking for a nice wording which you understand and which suits the very basic understading of propaganda. If I agreed with any and said smth like: 'You are right. These Russians are killing everything moving 1000 km around the place where their attack plane was shot down by peaceful farmers...', then you would find the comment 'full'. Ah yeah. I would also need a smile or two . That would make a 'complete' comment.

 

Everything in your post is aimed at framing the US in the worst possible way... to me most of this is irrelevant... we are where we are, and it really doesn't matter to me how we got here. Whether Obama himself ran naked through the streets of Damascus and started a revolution or whatever argument is thrown out there to implicate America in some shape or form...I really don't care. I'll repeat myself... I DON'T CARE.

The only thing I care about is now... what is happening now, because the rest is all smoke and fog. It is a fact that bombing increased dramatically after the Russian plane was shot down. So please don't try and tell me revenge doesn't factor in this equation.

Russia steps up air raids on Syria's Idlib province after jet shot down
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ib-province-after-jet-shot-down-idUSKBN1FO0VT

Also... everything is not about Russia and also not America. If we're talking Syria then really the conversation should be more about Israel, Iran, Assad and Turkey who I believe are going to be dictating what happens next.
I think there's serious risk of a war breaking out between Israel and Hezbollah, Netanyahu should take as much responsibility for this as Hezbollah should. Hamas have been moving closer to Iran, after a chill their relationship for not supporting Assad in the early days of the Syrian rebellion... so we could see Hamas joining Hezbollah as the situation in Gaza is at boiling point. (As you know Trump has cut off their funding, desperate situation in Gaza)

The direction of the Syrian war is not in America's hands (who are wisely staying out of the way in the north east) nor is it in Russia's, who are trying to bring peace to the region, I think it's futile... especially between Hezbollah and Israel. The dark horse is Turkey and I think every effort should be made to stop their offensive in Afrin, because if it continues we may soon see a conflict in the north and the south.. Assad's newly recovered kingdom chewed up and spat out by the 3 powers in the region... Iran, Israel and Turkey.
Despite all of this it would work very well in America's favour who would only have to hold their position and keep Turkey at bay in the north east/Assad on the westbank of the Euphrates. Russia on the other hand will have peacekeeper duties... and we all know how much peacekeeper duties suck...

 

You don't care about the beginning of the war which made millions of people to lose their way of living with tens of thousands to lose lives. But you do care about brave defenders who shot down Russian attack plane. I doubt that anyone can care about things you care... including you.

I told you what will happen. The war will continue. Turks will continue to wipe kurds from Syrian territory bordering Turkey. Israel will continue air strikes until they come to conclusion that they don't get any result and the cost of the planes lost is too costly. The US will try to yell in propaganda media about the crimes of Putin coming at the max voice in the middle of March. Russia will discover the traces of the SAM used for attack and will perform air attack on those in Syria who are involved into this ill show. Minimum in a year - max in two years the war will be over and Syria will start to move gradually from civil war to democratic society.
There cannot be and is no proof that Russia is terrorizing citizens after the attack.

Partly true. These sides depend on The USA and Russia and won't do any move before they agree it at least with one of them. They all act to their interests, but their activity is not 'dictating' the events.

If Israel starts the full scale war they will risk serious losses of the army (Russia will engage its anti-air SAMs and probably even the fighters. So far Israel already lost some planes performing attacks from outside Syrian airspace. The more they engage - the more losses they are going to have with a 100% risk of worsening the war in Gaza.

The peace comes to Syria only after the negotiations between the parties are complete and compromise is found. Israel's interest is safety and Hezbollah together with Hamas are not interested in full scale war in such situation. They won't be ready for a powerful strike against Israel for another 5-10 years. If the US withdrew its military bases and aircraft from Syrian territory Assad would wipe out those who are not willing to negotiate quite quickly. Perhaps after leaving of the US they won't even wait to be wiped out starting to talk sense days before the last American soldier is out.

They won't stop before kurds give up their ideas of making a sovereign state in Syria or Iraq. The war is already there and it will eventually grow. The question about it is only the losses of Turkish army. If the losses stay acceptable - the kurds will be forced to give up. If the losses make Erdogan to look for compromise the instability would continue for decades with a risk of huge revolt in the territory of Turkey itself. There's nothing dark in motivation of Erdogan.

If it happens it creates nothing but some time and space for the US military to come up with another combatants against Assad. Everyone involved understands that and they won't stop unless they meet with unappropriate losses. Even if it happens it won't change the cistuation for Syria or the USA to any of their desired results.

If Russian army doesn't control ISIS where it is now - they will soon come to Russian Caucases. In this case Russia will use Syria as a polygon aiding Assad's army and\or police from the skies. The better it gets - the less interests will be found by Russia. If Iran, Syria, Turkey, KSA and Israel find a compromise for them and there is no ISIS or the US around Russia will get useless to them. But since they are not able to make an agreement between them - Russia will play in the region the role which US failed to play.

 

See here's your problem... your focus on the drama, 3/4's of the paragraph ^^^ is about the how the US will yell and carry on and defending Russia. It's all theatrics... the things that really matter happens behind all the drama. I'm not interested in the drama

That's what they tell you, and if you're buying it you're naive. Russia had no clue about the attack on the Americans 5-8km east of the Euphrates a week or so ago... and if they pretend not to be aware they deserve to be called clueless - example of Assad not asking permission. The recent Israeli attack also asked no one's permission and if you think the Turks are going to ask for permission you're having a really sweet dream. Iran may coordinate but if it served their interest they will also not inform Russia. You are blind with your own importance.

Yes because Israel is known for stopping when things get hard I believe Netanyahu wants to engage Hezbollah and it makes perfect sense... why wait till they've built many weapons and missile factories and have dug themselves into Syria where it will be much harder to extract them in a few years. Now is the time...

Israel's interest is safety but that doesn't mean peace... it actually means engage.

You are counting on the Americans leaving.. don't hold your breath, they have already said their stay in north eastern Syria is open ended.

Nothing dark in motivation of Erdogan there are Syrian rebels fighting alongside Turks, Israel is also using Syrian rebels in the south. You think his only interest is the Kurds but he knows Assad will want revenge for starting a rebellion... it is well known Erdogan supported the rebels before and during the war, he is a big threat for Assad, and Assad to him and Erdogan will undermine him every opportunity he can get.

I think Russia's desire to fill the role the US failed to play has the potential to be Russia's achilles heel...

Again here's your weakness... "Russia will be the power US failed to be" your peace efforts crumbled... but you're going to be the power US failed to be lol. You're better off waiting with all the chest beating and keeping your eye on the situation... it's far from over.

 

My understanding is Russia knew about the Syrian attack and agreed with America that it would not participate in it.

Had it done so, America likely would not have responded.

If Russia finds the SAMS shot at it's plane to be American in origin, they will arm their proxies accordingly. Count on it.
Don't imagine that the shoot down of that Israeli plane was a timely coincidence either.



Isreal is known for getting stopped... by Hezbollah.

 

Is that your version or do you have a source you can link to, because several news sources quote Mattis as saying

and then this bullshit story

they were out on reconnaissance 500 of them with tanks lol then just decided to launch an attack

Also so much for claiming everyone checks with Russia first before they act Russia do not control the situation on the ground

 

I'll try and find you whatever source I got that from.
Some new report I expect.

 

Nah sorry I can't find it. Maybe I made it up.

I found Russia saying they were not notified of the Syrian attack by the Syrians which does rather contradict my assertion, and I found the Pentagram saying they notified Russia before retaliating.

What I also found was that last year Russians were all over that zone.
Deir Al Zour.
Their Spetnatz fought on the ground there, they fired cruise missiles at it and they were involved in mine clearance.
They were also accused of airstrikes on civilians there which they denied.

Russians and Kurds (YPG) had been allies in that assault.


Force reconnaissance. Reconnaissence in force.
You go in hard until the enemy stops you. This tests their defences and the depth of their defences.
Typically conducted by your very hardest units. Not a few observers, but a battle group.

 

Take away one sentence without changing the sense of the paragraph, which contains only the 'drama'. If you succeed I will agree and try to skip what you think to be theatrics.

None of these countries alone or even altogether can win the war with the US or Russia. Of course they are making moves on their own attacking Russians or Americans. This is a war. Even the soldiers of one army did attack their own soldiers. "Friendly fire" is a constant reason for losses. And in this case Americans don't inform anyone but Russians about some of their moves. These attacks cannot be the illustration for Russia or the US being unimportant in the war in the territory of Syria. Of course all the sovereign nations make actions to their interests. They are not under control and I never said they are. However some moves of the locals can be initiated by americans or Russians.

At the moment there is the logics of war. And the threat of importing big war to Israel is more than ever. I understand that Israel and Hezbollah are deadly enemies. But ISIS-like regime is not any better and actually is worse. Thus Israel in the very best case would waste its army having a narrow win leaving its population defenseless against the guys who like cutting heads off. They do understand it.

It's up to them to decide whether to strike or to talk. IMHO the situation is unique to talk. With minimum compromise Israel can set up peaceful relationship with the neighbours and come out of the trap of living in a constant existential threat.

They left from everywhere else and are locked now between Turkey and Iraq having an opportunity to damage both countries which are actually American... allies.

This CAN happen, but I wouldn't really count on it. If Assad lost Erdogan would have gotten his share, but at the moment Assad is winning and Erdogan won't take a risk of replacing ISIS as a foe of Assad. Assad in his turn is not that strong to plan a bigger war before a narrow and devastating victory against the previous one. The people grew tired of the war.

It certainly will. all of out weaknesses are continuations of our strengths.

Russian initiatives have the results. The peace gradually returns to areas where the cease fire agreement happened. Moreover with Chinese, Indian, Iranian and Russian investments the economy started to restore. The peace in Syria is getting closer to areas which passed the initiatives of Russia. And American-controlled? ISIS-controlled? People eventually will go to the side to let their kids living in peace.

 

None of those countries (Israel and Turkey) are thinking ito winning or losing "Syria's war" they are thinking ito their own best interest and they will do what they need to do regardless of what the US and Russia say, even if it meant destabilising Syrian for however long it takes.

 

Agreed. The only state actor who puts Syria's problems first, is Assad's regime.
But it's weak. A weak country. A weak regime in a weak country.

 

Assad only cares about himself

 

No. Assad cares about Syria.
If he only cared about himself he would have fled to safety in exile.

You don't care about Syria, he does.
Syria is your countries enemy, not his.

 

What you have a direct line to him

Assad doesn't give a **** about his country, if he did he would have tried to negotiate or made some concessions before the **** hit the fan, they don't call him the butcher of Damascus for no reason

 

Nothing and no one you love is in Syria.
Everything and everyone he loves is in Syria.

He loves Syria, you are at war with Syria. So you hate it's leader.
Call him names. Despise him.

Your nations self interest is to destroy Syria and his self interest is to preserve it.

 

Why are you comparing me to Assad... have you lost the plot completely?

 

Why not?
You claim to know how better to rule Syria than Assad. That him not doing as you think he should have was an act of hatred towards Syria.
You seem to think you love Syria more than he does and know more about it than he does.

I think you haven't a clue.
And if you stop to think about it I'm sure you will agree.

 

When I travelled through Asia... I saw a person walk in the airport... they looked like they don't care about Syria.

why not compare him to someone closer to home... like (and I'm just taking a wild stab at it here) say someone actually in Syria... then you can narrow it down a little... perhaps Syrian rebel leaders... as opposed to.... a random person on the internet

 

Because I am not discussing it with someone closer to home. I am discussing it with you.
It's you I am learning about here. Not Syria.

I am learning your perspective on Syria.
And also other peoples.
I am comparing your and their perspectives to each others perspectives and my own perspective.

I learn lots about you guys and bugger all about Syria from this thread. No Syrians are contributing to it.

 

I don't give a **** about Syria (apart from empathy with the refugees)... I'm on the other side of the planet. Am I interested in what is happening there... yes I am because the conflict have wider repercussions that could influence the whole world.

What do you care about my perspective anyway... if you don't like my perspective you can just put me on ignore... there's no life or death situation here we're on a forum...

 

I have no reason to put you on ignore. I come here to talk to you. To exchange ideas with you. To learn about you and your culture and to pass the time.

I tend to ignore people who I find boring or argumentative.
Disagreeable...that's the nature of debating. We primarily respond to that with which we disagree.

 

Does your opinion always have to resort to pouting and requesting someone put you on ignore if they debunk every premise your argument brings to a discussion?

Why would someone put you on ignore just for not agreeing with your perspective? No they are going to challenge it. Your perspective here was challenged and defeated. If we all put posters on ignore because we didn't agree with their perspective on X issue but perhaps not Y and maybe agree on Z... I am pretty certain based upon the number of issues we discuss... Well we would only be debating ourselves. All other posters would be on ignore! Hah

 

You do realise Baff had a problem with my opinion and I suggested if I bother him HE should place ME on ignore so he wouldn't have to read my posts.

yes when someone is rude or they are only interested in making personal comments or insults (like yourself) I do put them on ignore... this is the only way to come to this site and have any type of civilised exchange..

so off you go... bye lol