Should prostitution be legal?

Why should that form of Commerce be any form of problem for Any capitalist under our form of Capitalism?

 

Why do you support the legalization of prostitution?

 

Because I support freedom. Don't you?

 

So you favor alcohol prohibition then? Illegal prostitution leads to the spread of diseases. As displayed by counties in Nevada with legal prostitution, such diseases do not spread.

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Guns have the potential to cause harm. So do all weapons. Do we outlaw those because of their "potential"? No. Prostitution is no different.

 

Did I say I favored alcohol prohibition? No. You can use alcohol abuse/addiction as an example of how self-harm can effect society, though, just as you can drugs. My argument is about self-harm having negative effects on society, which it can tend to do. I'm not advocating for the outlawing of these things, but it's important to know the entire truth about your stance on the issues. Sure, you should be allowed to sell your body, should you want to - it's your body, just be aware that this type of behavior can have negative effects on society.

The porn industry (which is legal), itself, has led to the spread of HIV/AIDs. This has been reported on extensively over the last year. I fail to see how legalized prostitution would be any different.

People with guns have the potential to cause harm - not the guns themselves. These are developed for the purpose of defense, so they should cause harm when used. It's illogical to compare the two. Guns allow us to protect ourselves... it has nothing to do with capitalism and your freedom to do as you will with your body.

 

If you don't favor alcohol prohibition, then your point about potential negative effects is irrelevant to whether or not something should be legal. Guns have more than one purpose--they are also developed for the purpose of offense. It is absurd to suggest otherwise. I also reject your contention that the porn industry has lead to any significant spread of HIV/AIDS. Please show me some extensive reports. And finally, what has been reported extensively is that legal prostitution has not led to the spread of HIV/AIDS in Nevada, whereas illegal prostitution has. If you are concerned with negative effects, then, making prostitution illegal has far greater negative effects than legalizing it.

Even if your "potential negative effects on society" argument is valid, then we would have to conclude that legalized prostitution is necessary because with it illegal the effects are worse.

 

Do you even realize that you're arguing with someone over semantics, regarding this poll? I voted Yes.

In regards to the civilized population, guns are developed for defensive purposes. It is illegal to murder someone. Unless you're talking about hunting or war, your argument is a silly one.

You reject my contention regarding the porn industry? lol Why don't you people ever do the research yourselves?

Porn:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/07/string-of-hiv-infections-brings-porn-industry-to-a-standstill/
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/10/221006125/hiv-outbreak-spotlights-adult-film-industrys-testing-system

Transactional Sex Industry:
http://home.gwu.edu/~roudenko/HIV-Nigeria.pdf
http://www.ijstd.org/article.asp?is...me=28;issue=2;spage=69;epage=75;aulast=Thappa
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/06/19/china.aids.prostitutes/

Would legalizing prostitution reduce the chances of spreading disease? Maybe. Are the brothels going to require condoms or test everyone that comes in for HIV/Aids, or are they only going to test the prostitute? Even then, condoms aren't always effective. How confident are you that they're always going to test, when they should test? How many potential customers will each prostitute have per day? How long does it take to find out if someone has HIV? Immediately after having sex or does it take some time for the virus to be detected?

Sure, go legalize it... I'm not going to partake and neither, do I think, will my family members. You should know, however, that there are risks involved. If you don't admit that, you're lying to yourself or unwilling to see the truth, in which case, why should we even entertain the idea of legalizing prostitution, if you're not going to take it seriously?

 

This argument has nothing to do with semantics. We aren't discussing the meaning of words in any way.

It doesn't matter how guns are developed. It matters how they are used. And plenty of people use them to break the law and kill someone. Thus such guns pose a risk to society in some respects. Does that mean they should be banned? No. I was simply drawing a parallel to prostitution.

"You people?" What people is that? Read your own article. How many diagnoses in the entire porn industry? Four. And that is enough to get the industry to stop and take precautions. Furthermore, do you know the reason why? They were not using condoms. Do you even realize the type of STD testing porn stars go through on a regular basis? Now suppose the same industry were illegal. Do you think people would take the same precautions? I doubt it. Just like illegal drugs, abortion, and prostitution, everything is riskier in terms of health consequences. Seems to me like with the porn industry legal, there is less harm done. You are only proving my point.

So to counter my point that legalizing and regulating prostitution is better than prohibiting it, you give me three examples of countries where prostitution is illegal or unregulated and how terrible the results are...you do realize that all three of those sources completely support my argument, do you not? And you then criticize me for not doing my research..

Yes, as your sources compared to Nevada and countries where prostitution is legal and regulated show.

Why are you asking me all of these questions? The answers are already known in the case of Nevada. There is absolutely no HIV/AIDS problem with legal prostitutes in Nevada. In the same state, however, illegal prostitutes do have these problems. I don't think the evidence could be any clearer.

Neither am I. But the risks to myself are totally irrelevant to whether or not something should be legal--and nobody denies there are risks to any of these activities. The whole point you were arguing was that there may be risks to society, not just oneself. And I thoroughly debunked that, as society faces less risk when prostitution is legalized.

 

Because the right insists on the Iron Age moral of work or die, and I am hoping to be able to make honest women of them in modern times.

 

I wasn't arguing the "how" guns are made... I was arguing the "why." Plenty of people use them to break the law, while many more people use them legally to defend themselves. You can't draw a parallel to prostitution, because it's like comparing drinking alcohol to running a race. Neither thing has anything to do with the other. Prostitution is a sexual transaction. Guns are physical devices that can be used to defend oneself and hunt game.

Yeah, "you people" on the internet, that love to spout claims and arguments without providing any sources, but demanding them from others. Sound familiar?

Yes... four diagnoses in the porn industry (that have been reported). How many more people were infected, as a result of those 4 having sex outside of filming porn? We don't know, do we? Or maybe you're reading something I'm not. Did it say "no other citizens have contracted the disease by these 4 performers," anywhere in the two articles? I didn't see it, but maybe you have a third eye.

That being said, condoms can help stop the spread of disease, but it's not 100% certain. Things happen. Condoms aren't a sure thing.

You really expect regulation will solve 100% of the issues? We just went through pornography, where 4 people in the last year (just the last year) had tested positive for HIV and weren't following the rules/regulations that were in place for the industry. What's your guarantee that all brothels and prostitutes will adhere to the regulations at all times? You can't guarantee that, just as you can't guarantee that prostitutes won't have sex with people outside of the industry, contracting and spreading diseases.

These sources are demonstrable of how prostitution can be harmful to society. Regulation may stave off some harmful effects, but not all.

Because I'm curious about your guarantee for everything being safe, since you're so sure it will be. Nevada is one of the lowest populated states in the union. Of the 2.7 million people they have in the state, only 166,000 live in the counties where prostitution is legal. I wouldn't count Nevada as a big success story, since the testing population is so small. In other words, 2.534 million people (of 2.7) do not live in cities/counties where prostitution is legal. What's going to happen when it's legal for 313 million Americans?

No, you didn't "thoroughly debunk" anything. You made an argument that suggested it would be "less risky" than illegal prostitution, but legalizing it for the entire United States, populated with over 313 million people is most certainly raising the risk for a majority of the population, from the current potential risk right now.

 

I think it is wrong, but it should be legal so that it would not be underground where criminals and gangsters control the trade. Also, in the end people hve a right to do what they want with their own bodies

 

I meant to say why. Of course a parallel can be drawn. You suggested that prostitution poses a risk to society. I pointed out that guns too can pose a risk to society. Yet neither of us would ban guns because of that risk, and thus neither of us should consider banning prostitution either (which you have said is your position anyway, so I am not sure why you brought up societal risk in the first place).

That's right. The article said no such thing about whether disease was spread outside the porn industry by these 4 people. You are the one reading something that isn't there by assuming more people were infected outside the porn industry. If that were the case, or a significant risk, the article would have mentioned it. You are the one who seems to have the third eye. Unless used improperly or broken, condoms are excellent at preventing diseases such as HIV/AIDS.

Of course sometimes people will break the rules. That is true for anything. That is like saying we shouldn't have guns because some people might break the rules and use them for murder. The undeniable fact is that in countries were prostitution is legal and regulated, it is far more safe than countries where the opposite is true.

I was never claiming legalized prostitution will be perfect, and I don't need to. I am claiming that it is the best option with the least risk compared to the other options.

First of all, you don't have to live in one of those Nevada countries to get a prostitute. People from across the state and the country visiting those counties can do so, and they do in fact do so. Furthermore, prostitution exists where it is illegal across the United States. You seem to have this false notion that illegal prostitution=no prostitution, and thus no risks, and legal prostitution necessarily has more risks. That is entirely false. A simple google search can tell you about prostitution's existence across America. Just as marijuana is smoked across the US, so too is prostitution practiced, despite both being illegal.

What you must prove to me is that illegal prostitution is safer than legal prostitution. You have failed to do that.

No it isn't! Refer to my above comments. It seems you are ignorant of the reality that prostitution is alive and well in all 50 states. And in those states where it is illegal, the harm is much greater than those counties in Nevada. Here is an article about what is going on in LA:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/san-fernando-valley-prostitution_n_4055238.html

Illegal prostitution increases the likelihood of human trafficking and sex slavery of minors. With legal prostitution, these practices would no longer be profitable, for why go to some illegal prostitute when there are plenty of legal and safer option? Free markets are always safer than black markets.

 

Because I'm not so daft to believe a risk doesn't exist. Even if I support the legalization of certain things, I feel it's important to understand the underlying risks of having them legalized.

lol... I'm looking outside the box. One of the more deviant things the news media can do, is to ignore or not cover a story... or leave bits and pieces out. It does this all the time. How are we supposed to know others weren't infected as a result of these 4 individuals working in the industry? How do you know their privacy isn't a concern, so they're not reporting it? Or, maybe at the time of these writings, they didn't know they were infected.

Why do you suppose AIDs/HIV isn't as prevalent in the United States (.3% of the population), as it is in other countries, like South Africa (12%), despite us not having legalized prostitution? Or, for that matter, why does South Korea have such a low rate of .002% with prostitution illegal? Meanwhile, .2% of Mexico's population has HIV/Aids, where prostitution is legal and regulated.

Where it works seems to be Australia, which has a .09% population with HIV/Aids. Prostitution appears to be legal in the entire country, with Western Australia outlawing brothels and not regulating, but Eastern allowing brothels and regulating it. M'thinks it has more to do with the morals/ethics of the people.

Ok, I agree.

I'm not delusional. I understand that illegal prostitution exists throughout this country. I just don't believe it's as prevalent as it would be if it were legal. I'd bet that more people would be willing to engage in transactional sex if it were legal than people do now.

I never said it was. I just said that prostitution can be harmful to society.

And you're just ignoring my argument that legalizing it just opens the door for more people to think it's ok to do it, thus the risk could potentially go up for disease transfer rates. Maybe it won't. Maybe our legalized prostitution will be better regulated than most other countries.

 

You are missing my point. I never denied any risks. There is greater risk when prostitution is illegal. I would say the same with guns.

Reporting that there are infections outside of the industry as a result of porn stars being infected does not violate privacy in any way. The fact is we do not know whether or not there have been more infections, so it is wrong to assume there have been when such a small number of porn stars are effected, and absolutely no evidence suggests that more have been infected.

Better sex education HIV prevention (such as condoms). There are other factors at play. The question is simple: does making prostitution illegal, all else remaining the same, pose a greater risk than allowing it and regulating it like everything else? I say yes.

You are now trying to change the argument to "what causes the spread of HIV/AIDS." Nice try, but that is not the topic of discussion. The topic at hand is what is more likely to pose a greater risk of spreading AIDS (all else remaining equal, of course): illegal or legal prostitution? You have done nothing to suggest legal prostitution poses a greater risk.

Then what is your argument?

Really? I'm not so sure that is the case. It would just be more out in the open. For example, 20% of Americans have admitted to having sex with a prositute, despite it being illegal. Only 15% of Australians (where prostitution is legal) have admitted to such.
http://prostitution.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004119

If people are not inclined to want prostitutes, making it legal will not suddenly change their morals. I'm not suddenly going to go to prostitutes if it were to be legal in my city tomorrow, and I bet you would say the same.

Guns can be used to kill people. Does that mean they are harmful to society? No. The individuals who made that choice and who have that mindset are the ones causing the harm. The same is true for abusers of alcohol, and the same would be true for those who abuse prostitution.

I'm not ignoring that argument. It simply isn't true. In Las Vegas, with illegal prostitution, there are more cases of HIV and STD transmissions than in the parts of Nevada were it is legal. Your argument has been shown false in virtually every country that has legalized and regulated prostitution.

 

Capitalism can be harmful to society; should we outlaw it?

 

Not for freedom's own sake I don't. Freedom is a means to an end, not an end in itself, don't forget that. Don't base your arguments on 'freedom', because that's as valid as basing it on 'equality', 'fairness', 'solidarity' or 'justice' or any other popular concept. Whenever one forgets that the true end is the welfare of all, and that the aforementioned concepts are but means to achieve that end, one is going down the path of silly positions and ultimately indefensible and absurd positions, like letting people have nukes "because it's freedom" or not allowed private property "to be more equal" or "let's put people in gulags in the name of this arbitrary principle". Point is, never forget the true end.

Now, it just so happens that I believe legalising prostitution will work towards the good of all. But I'm not basing any of my arguments of freedom, because freedom in itself doesn't really matter.

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But compared to the other systems it is the best.

A no then.

 

What makes you say that? It isn't capitalism that makes people want to come here, but our form of socialism as enumerated in our supreme law of the land.

 

Has it ever occured to you that it's a mix? Although much, much more towards capitalism than socialism.

 

How about white slavery and forced prostitution. Legalize it?

 

I think someone who has to pay for sex is one sad sum(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). Since I don't like sadness, I think prostitution should remain illegal.

 

That's great news for all those that will suffer and die of diseases in the sex industry because there won't be health checks, and it's great news for all those who have terrible work conditions but can't get the help other occupations get because their job is illegal.

What it comes down to is essentially that you cannot get rid of it. Think about that. You cannot get rid of it, it will always be there and always has. All you can do is choose how to best deal with it. Wheter you think it's moral or not is probably the most irrelevant thing ever. The only thing that ought to matter to any sane person is the public good. How to get the best result in terms of public good when it comes to the sex industry? Legalise, regulate, tax.

 

Nope; capitalism is only an economic paradigm, socialism is capitalism plus government.

 

It depends; right now, I don't mind blaming the right for insisting on an Iron Age work ethic but ignoring the timeless immorality of the abomination of hypocrisy regarding our laws concerning employment at will.

We could be solving simple poverty in our republic and offering a choice of a form of minimum wage simply for being unemployed.

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Why do you believe that? From one perspective, I can usually find nice girls who are willing to claim only bad girls let me miss my turn for free, when I don't have enough money.

 

How can you argue freedom does not mean anything? Freedom is what makes life amazing , freedom is about choice, its about seeking your own path to hapiness rather than being forced against your will by people who think they know what is best for you

 

Socialism is not capitalism plus government. An odd misconception that government is inherently socialist.

Exactly, freedom makes life amazing. Id est, it serves the public good. But there are cases in which more freedom runs contrary to the public good, and it's then that it's important to remember that freedom is just a means to an end.