Should these persons be in jail and paying tens of thousands in fines and have criminal records?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Bluesguy, Apr 7, 2024.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    name one person she helped that continued to loot and riot with her help

    people supported the peaceful protestors that were arrested, not the looters and rioters
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
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  2. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I respect the verdicts of juries that have assessed the evidence and listened to attempts to refute it. Neither of us is in a position to second guess them.

    More than 1,350 Trump goons have been charged in connection with the Jan. 6 attack, and prosecutors have secured more than 950 convictions.

    I would no more claim that the 950 are innocent than I would claim that the 400 others are guilty.
     
  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You know if you don't have a rebuttal, to cogent arguments against your shallow posts, maybe you should just not reply. But I will give you a second shot to improve. Here's what I wrote. "I support the process whether it leads to conviction or not, and I support the appeals process as well. Its not hiding behind anyone to expect a jury to make this call after a trial, not you and not me. There are rules of evidence on which testimony and evidence is allowed or suppressed. if the rules of discovery were not obeyed, that is a matter for an appelate court to weigh, not me or you. if there is newly discovered exculpatory evidence, that same process exists. Stop pretending you know more than the jury sitting in court day after day, when you what you purport to 'know' is actually different from what the jury is supposed to see and hear. They were given instructions on the specifics of the statutes and access to direct testimony and evidence. You were not there"

    Now, this is the point where you try to find a flaw in what I wrote. Some sort of crack in the logic, the reasoning within the post , or inconsistency in my argument where you look less of a fool, and me more of one than before I wrote it. Maybe look at my post history, and find examples where I did not support a criminal trial result despite any partisan collateral damage the result might leave. See your problem, is that every single post you write comes from a place of blatant partisanship - literally every single one ( I have not checked out the food and beverage thread). Blues, you cannot resist looking at criminal court docket results as an extension of your shallow view of the world, so you demand that I do it too.

    Actually seeing the limitation to our personal knowledge and understanding in courtroom proceedings to which we are not personally privy, is not a dodge, its called 'humility'. I am smarter than you are about all this, but I am not smarter than the criminal justice trial process.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    YES the dodge...............you support the process............I didn't ask about the process I asked about THIS 71 year old great grandmother and should she go to prison and pay tens of thousands in fines. The PROCESS doesn't require that she could get probation. What do YOU as a CITIZEN believe should happen? You can read full well the evidence and what happened that day so stop with that canard. We the citizens decide the laws and how they are applied. So give me your citizens opinion.
     
  5. gringo

    gringo Well-Known Member Donor

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    the defense attorneys of the criminals in the J6 trial will use video of " orderly tours"

    the prosecution will use videos of the damage and destruction and chaos done that day

    I would bet every person charged with a crime that day will be found on video breaking the laws of this country

    sure, some of the criminals may also have videos of themselves acting in a peaceful manner

    kinda like trump walking down the street...then "bam" , he shoots someone

    the part video of him walking does not make him innocent ..it is the shooting part that will convict him
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The juries are made up of US we the citizens and YES we the citizens should be VERY concerned about how our system of justice is being used against fellow citizens especially when it stinks to you know what of political retribution.

    You know the facts here it was a simple case, what do YOU think should she go to prison when she was not charged with a violent act and did not engage in a violent act and we see how the people simply walked through the building.
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Trump's January 6 goons are far from the only dastards who sought to trash American democracy. Some may escape justice from their peers, but not all.


    Screen Shot 2024-04-21 at 2.20.18 PM.png
    Putin's use of Trump as a useful tool cannot be ignored.

     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Stop with the specious demands I don't have to give you names you have been linked to facts deal with them.

     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Dodge noted again and HUGE dodge......why is a simple answer so difficult for you?
     
  10. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    I try to enlighten you without discernible success.

    So many January 6 Trump goons being convicted or confessing, coupled with so many from the Trump regime refusing to endorse the Loser-in-Denial's attempt at recidivism, speaks eloquently.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  11. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Oh , you’re concerned about political retribution ? After a fair trial ? After her being accorded due process ? After being convicted by a jury of her peers ?

    Yes, she should be sentenced and , if sentenced as such , go to jail and/or pay a fine.


    Now why is it that you don’t want the Orange Stain to be subject to the same due process accorded granny ?

    You know what that stinks of, don’t you ?
     
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  12. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    We the citizens very rarely decide the law or how they are applied. State legislatures do, after weeks and weeks of testimony, a couple of worksession and lots of testimony. I as a citizen believe that the court process should be respected with respect to specific cases, like those you mentioned in your OP. Reading 'a one day summary' and a listing of evidence,' simply isn't sufficient to decide whether someone is guilty of breaching that specific criminal statute (which I have not read) that they are charged with , or what penalty they should face, so we should not be second guessing what happened.. That's my whole point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    give a name that the left supported that was a rioter or looter
     
  14. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We do it in juries in elections in ourmcards and letters to iur law makers and enforcers.

    Dodge noted again. This is abiut the proper punishment for her acts which are noted in the links. Should she go to jail for her peaceful protesting?
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You know the facts here it was a simple case, why do YOU think should she go to prison when she was not charged with a violent act and did not engage in a violent act and we see how the people simply walked through the building.
     
  16. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    Asked and answered.

    She was found guilty.
    She will be sentenced by a judge in accordance with the law and sentencing guidelines . If that includes prison time, so be it.

    I really can’t explain it any simpler .
     
  17. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Wake up. The people who decide her 'proper punishment' are the people who attend the sentencing hearing, and hear the testimony therein. That's why they have sentencing hearings after the accused is convicted. Neither you nor I have attended it. Juries do not decide the law, they decide if someone committed a crime. We do not decide the law, or how it is applied. we seek to influence legislators as they decide the law and how it gets applied. .
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your obfuscations noted. You and I ARE those people and this ain't complicated you have the evidence. But then I can understand why you refuse to answer.
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And more obfuscation, I asked YOU what YOU think what should be her sentence and don't play that game that you never comment on ongoing trials and possible outcomes else I will point it out in every Trump thread in which you are involved.
     
  20. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    You can point out whatever comment or post I have ever made.

    Since I don't know the sentencing guidelines, mandatory or discretionary, for granny's crimes, I can't give you the opinion you seek.
    She will be sentenced by a judge in accordance with the law and sentencing guidelines . If that includes prison time, so be it.

    Can't be any clearer.
     
  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    No we are not those people and no we do not have all the relevent evidence, and we may have seen evidence that is supposed to be precluded from consideration.
     

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