Study of 1038 pedophiles shows no link with adult homosexuality

Go read it again yourself. I'll copy it from post #1 and highlight the critical words for your convenience:

The 1038 men who melested boys reported a range of adult sexual preference. Contrary to popular beleif, only 8% reported they were exclusively homosexual in their adult preferences. The majority of the men who molested boys (51%) described themselves as exclusively heterosexual in their adult partner preferences. An additional 19 percent reported they were predominately hetersexual, while yet another 9 percent said they were equally heterosexual and homosexual in their adult sex life. As with other characteristics, the group of 1038 men who molest boys followed the general pattern of the U.S. male population in regard to their adult sexual preferences.



So as I wrote, of the pedophiles, 21% were homosexual or predominantly homosexual.

I looked up the percentage of the population (men) that are gay, most studies put it in the 2-5% range, the highest I saw was near 10%. No matter what number you pick, homosexuals are over represented in the pedophile population.

Most of this thread is a a tap dance trying to dodge/spin/twist the obvious conclusion from the numbers.

 

I still find this pre-occupation with whether homosexuals are over represented when in fact the vast majority of pedophile victims are girls- sexually assaulted by men.

Here is the clear breakdown of how it works:
Men molesting girls
Men molesting boys
and then far, far behind....
Women molesting boys or girls.

You are so obsessed with whether male homosexuals are 'over-represented' when what is clear is that MEN are over-represented. MEN are almost always the pedophiles.

The one clear link is that MEN are most likely to be pedophiles- regardless of their adult sexual preferences.

 

More dodging. Read post #1, the subject of this thread is not pedophiles in general, but male homosexuality and incidence of pedophilia.

Still doesn't change the numbers, male homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than male heterosexuals.

 

I haven't challenged that claim since you brought it up. My focus has been purely on the survey of pedophiles vs the various population statistics brought to me as alternatives to the Kinsey statistics. None of which are any better for direct comparison.

 

I am not referencing the Kinsey study. I'm referencing the study on pedophiles that used the Kinsey scale. I apologize for not having made that clear. Kinda a problem when you have 50 different definitions of "gay" floating around, isn't it? >.<

 

I very clearly showed you where that 8% came from, and that it came from the EXACT SAME PLACE THAT THE 1.7% CAME FROM. The same source. The same website. The same people published BOTH of those numbers. They clearly stated what 1.7% represented (those who identify as gay) and 8% represented (those who had same sex relations).

You certainly have a different idea on what it means to say you're "gay", and I don't disagree with your definition. What I disagree with is that the studies you're looking at use the same definitions. You can argue that the surveys are using the wrong definition, but that doesn't change the fact that they used them nevertheless.

And no, your math is not correct. If it's correct, then I really need to go and retake my statistics for economics class and advice the other people that I've shown it to to do the same.

 

Thus far I've seen at least 6 different methods of calculating the "homosexual" population put forward

- Gay = only those who have sex with same sex adults, excluding pedophiles as its own separate orientation.
- Gay = those who have had gay sex in the last 5 years
- Gay = those who specifically identified themselves as gay, without any criteria for when or if they have had sex.
- Gay = those who had sex with men, without any specification to when that sex happens or if they'd do it again.
- Gay = some addition of percentages on where someone rated their sexuality on a scale from 0-6
- Gay = some addition of percentages on where a psychiatrist rated someones sexuality on a scale of 0-6

And we wonder why this looks like a "tap dance'? That's at least 6 different methods for measuring homosexuality that have been thrown around. Nobody can agree on a definition of "gay", and naturally any difference in methodology for calculating the percentage of gay people in the population will sit at odds with the study of pedophilia in question. No definition is "wrong", they're just different. Nevertheless that makes them difficult, if not impossible to compare. Asking someone if they identify as gay is very different from asking the how they rate their sexuality, which is very different from rating it for them, which is very different from who actually has gay sex.

 

Not my figure. I'm just using the figure that others have been using to debate the issue, rather than introducing something new to the equation, which would almost certainly distract us from the issue at hand.

Point being, to understand your error, it doesn't actually matter what the percent is - it matters that it expresses a ratio - telling us what fraction of the total is gay.

What part of 80 is not 1038 are you not getting? 80 is not 100% of 1038. 8% is 8%. The 'fact' that it's 8% (or whatever percent you choose), and that this percentage is the same in the study findings, do not make it 100%. It's still 8%.

Let's say that 8% of all apples harvested are found to have worms in them. Now let's say that when we look at Granny Smith apples, we also find that 8% of those harvested apples have worms in them. Does that mean that 100% of Granny Smith apples have worms in them? According to your "math", it would. But clearly it does not. 8% is still 8%. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about gay people, pedophiles or apples. 8% is not 100%. Finding the same percentage in a broad group as compared to the rate it occurs in a subset of the group does not make the fraction found in either one 100%. All it tells us is that the rate is the same for both the broad group and the subset - meaning that the fraction of people or apples with some trait is not disproportionately represented in the subset.

You are as wrong as you can possibly be, and I cannot fathom how you think 8% becomes 100%.

 

Putting it in big letters doesn't improve your argument, which is based around an equivocation.

Homosexual is not the same thing as gay. Homosexuality has very broad application. Gay would be a subset of homosexuality, since not all homosexual behavior or preference relates to being gay, and not all homosexual behavior or preference has the same driver as being gay. Pedophiles are oriented on children, regardless of what preferences they may show in an adult relationship, when they have one at all. Gay adults are not oriented on children.

Just because your black & white ideology makes you see all things homosexual as the same doesn't mean they are.

 

I suggest you look back at your sources. Some of those things you're citing as "gay" don't bear that specific label in the source. Don't assume that homosexual = gay. It doesn't, as there are many applications for the word 'homosexual', and it's a mistake to replace it with 'gay'.

 

Agrees, my source I particular didn't identify people as gay or homosexual, nor did they draw a link between the two. It just rated their sexual preference for adults on a scale of 0-6. My point is that everyone else has been finding one of various definitions for "gay" and assuming it meant the same thing.

Not only are they different things, but the questions themselves are different enough as to prompt different results. As anyone who does surveys knows, you have to be very careful how you ask a question - even a question that asks the same thing can get different results depending on how it's asked. This is particularly a problem for comparing stats for "gay identity" vs "sexuality ratings"

 

quite simple

if you take any cross section of America you should find 1.7% who engage in gay sex

this study did not take a cross section of America but instead took pedophiles. They found 8% who engage in gay sex.

 

8% PLUS "An additional 19 percent reported they were predominately hetersexual, while yet another 9 percent said they were equally heterosexual and homosexual in their adult sex life." Thats 36% of male pedophiles with a attraction towards men.

 

a staggering number indeed but however they have sex, pedophiles are sick mf's

 

Why include the predominately heterosexual men? I don't see that as being particularly relevant. I would assume that the vast majority of those would go by the label of "straight", or maybe "open minded"... So you can't look at that number relative to the small percentage of self-identified gay people in society.

Furthermore pedophiles in therapy or psycho-analysis situations (not sure how those statistics were obtained) are probably far more likely to report these things in a professional situation after a line of questioning than people simply responding to an off-the-cuff survey. I suspect a lot of people wear the "straight" label who are either in fact bisexual, open minded, or even gay (if they haven't come out). Some gay people don't come out untill later in life and wear the heteoaexual label for social reasons. I believe the number is a tad more proportional than those statistics would have you believe.

 

Case in point:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

 

Not what they found. Substituting "gay" for "homosexual" is a mistake.

It doesn't tell you anything about the narrower subset of people who are gay, since gay people aren't oriented on children. Homosexual pedophiles are oriented on children of the same sex, but that isn't the same thing as being gay.

Of course, I realize you're incapable of appreciating the difference since you insist on mistakenly defining "gay" as sexual behavior.

Regardless, even if we were to humor you, this still wouldn't indicate that 100% of "gay" people are pedophiles. 8% is not 100%, no matter how you slice it. Finding an equal or greater percentage of some group in a population subset than occurs in the general population doesn't mean that the defining characteristic of that subset applies to 100% of the fraction found in the general population. It only tells you how the population for that group found in the subset compares to the population for that group in the general population. Such a comparison will only tell you that the population found in the subset is either proportionate (same percentage found in subset as in general population) or disproportionate (lesser or greater percentage found in the subset as compared to the general population).

8% isn't 100%. If you still think it is, then you need to retake a basic math course.

 

Because YOUR study included them. Buit I understand why you would prefer that they not be included.

 

Soooooo Those men with feelings or attraction to men make up 8.6% of the men, and yet, this group makes up 36% of the child molesters in your study.

 

Again, you can't really take one study and overlay it on another because of the differences in methodology used to gather the demographics.

That said: Some fraction of the population experiences same-sex attraction. Of that fraction, another fraction are attracted to adults/age peers of the same sex (gay), while another fraction experiences some degree of significant attraction to adults/age peers of either sex (bisexual), while yet another fraction are attracted primarily to children, but also express a preference for the same sex in adult male relationships.

 

LOLOLOLOL The article that is the topic of the thread does exactly that. Takes a study in the 21s century, and compares it to studies done in the 1950s, to draw its conclusions.

I think you meant you can't really take one study and overlay it on another, if it reflects badly upon gays.

 

It's not fair to add up a bunch of percentiles including those who are "predominantly heterosexual" as well as those who are "predominantly homosexual" in their adult attractions, and compare that figure to the number of self-reported gay people in society - especially considering the massive variance in the results of the surveys conducted on sexual orientation. They show that people are reluctant to report on same-sex sexual activity in casual surveys, and the number may be a lot higher when you factor in people who haven't come out and people who identify as heterosexual even though they have bisexual tendencies.

I'm not denying that there are perhaps more pedophiles orientated towards boys, but I don't believe the figures are as disproportionate relative to the number of gay people in society as you would have us believe. I also think pedophilia is its own orientation with a completely different nature to normal, adult-focused sexual orientation.

 

No, I stand by my statement as it applies to both.

 

You know what, this may have already been mentioned... But if the OP's study only concerned boys who've been abused, OF COURSE the proportion of "gay" people will be higher. If you include ALL children who have suffered sexual abuse - normally girls by a 2 to 1 ratio - then the percentage of gay people is drastically reduced.

 

And, going by the approximately 2 to 1 ratio with girls to boys who have been abused, if you add together the "exclusively homosexual" (8%) with the "equally homosexual and heterosexual" figure (9%), you get 17%.. Divide that by three to correspond with the girl to boy rate and you get 5.67%. Obviously you would need to factor in the "equally homosexual and heterosexual" men who abuse girls (who in some cases may be the same people who have abused boys) - but the figure is then nevertheless significantly less than if you only consider male victims of child abuse.