[Supreme] Court allows Idaho to generally enforce ban on gender-transition care for minors

With over 70% of kids reporting to these gender clinics as being transgender, simply losing those feelings without ANY medical or pharmaceutical treatment, seems absurd to chemically delay puberty. Probably nothing better in the world than experiencing puberty, to clear up any gender confusion in kids. Seems that puberty blockers are nothing other than an attempt to keep kids on a path to medically transitioning and a lifetime of medical care to maintain the transition.
As well

Puberty blockers may cause mental illness
Puberty blockers may actually cause depression and other emotional disturbances related to suicide. In fact, the package insert for Lupron, the number one prescribed puberty blocker in America, lists “emotional instability” as a side effect and warns prescribers to “Monitor for development or worsening of psychiatric symptoms during treatment.” Similarly, discussing an experimental trial of puberty blockers in the U.K., Oxford University Professor Michael Biggs wrote, “There was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on [puberty blockers] children reported greater self-harm, and the girls also experienced more behavioral and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria.”

Puberty blockers may cause permanent physical harm
Temporary use of Lupron has also been associated with and may be the cause of many serious permanent side effects including osteoporosis, mood disorders, seizures, cognitive impairment and, when combined with cross-sex hormones, sterility....

Other health risks are correlated with puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones
Temporary use of puberty blocker Lupron has also been associated with and may be the cause of many serious permanent side effects including osteoporosis, mood disorders, seizures, cognitive impairment and, when combined with cross-sex hormones, sterility. In addition to the harm from Lupron, cross-sex hormones put youth at an increased risk of heart attacks, stroke, diabetes, blood clots and cancers across their lifespan.
Transgender Interventions Harm Children | American College of Pediatricians (acpeds.org)

 

I didn't actually say I supported "delaying puberty". The current regimen of "puberty blockers" is a little bit different from what I would advocate, in my compromise idea.
There has to be some way, I would think, of delaying gender-specific development without delaying puberty and the normal development common to both genders.

General overall puberty-blocking treatment has some side effects that may be irreversible, since the child's body is not fully capable of going through puberty at a later age.

And like I stated, some gender development delays would be easier to correct for later. I would support the ones that could be corrected later.

Just as one example, for an adolescent who never developed a deep voice, it is much easier for them to later go on hormone treatment and develop a deep voice in the future than it would be for a teen who develops a deep voice to try to ever reverse that.

If a teen boy does not want to develop in an as masculine way, what is the harm in that, so long as their development is not so far away from the range of development of normal boys? (Obviously there is a normal range of development in the population, and statistically some boys will develop with less masculine traits then others, but these boys are not considered aberrations)
I don't think advocating for that is too extremist, nor would that be turning them into some sort of unnatural inter-gender "freak".

 

Do you feel the same about statutory rape laws?
If children are too young to give consent to that even with parental consent, why are they not too young to give consent to this?
It's fair question.

 

Dixon there are as you say issues but some clarification and my comments come from what I was trained in at university and pretty much are the most prevalent statements on puberty blockers and can be found issued by most leading gender clinics, i.e., the Mayo clinic and others.

1. It should be pointed out puberty blockers delay the changes of puberty in transgender and gender-diverse youth who have started puberty. So they are NOT given to people until they reach puberty and doctors can tell when puberty has not yet started,

2. What we are talking about are drugs that release into the blood a hormone called gonadotropin. (GnRH) That hormone will when taken over a specific period of time and constantly can and does block testosterone (male) and estrogen (female) hormone development. Let us be clear. No human body is the same so the amount you need to take per person to block male or female hormones from developing varies per individual and doctors may spend considerable time adjusting the proper dose which may have to change. Its not an exact science.

3. Let us also be clear your body has present at birth a penis and scrotum (bag where the testicles are) in a male and a unterus, ovaries and vagina in a felamel. Sometimes testacles do not descend or do not exist and some females have no overies. Its also possible someone can be born with BOTH sets of organs. When they are born with BOTH sets or organs they are called hermaphrodites and they are a separate category. In their case usually one gender set of organs is more pronounced and so the question is do you leave them as is or do you operate and remove the very undeveloped ones or deformed ones. That is a complex issue and it is a case by case prognosis and can we please remove such people from the discussion and leave them alone. Their medical issues require medical intervention one way or the other and they have of course complex issues and I would caution everyone this is a private medical issue and until the child is legal age parents must guide the decisions. Usually doctors at the on set of puberty will have with the patient decided on the course of intervention. Sometimes nothing is done, sometimes surgery and hormones are used. Its none of our business.

4. Not to be confused with the above are people who we say have "gender dysphoria". This means they are born with a set of sexual organs that does not correspond with their sense of gender identity. Please do not confuse that with sexual preference. Homosexuals and lesbians are attracted to the opposite sex as sex partners but they feel no distress born with the sexual organs they have and let us make this also clear-homosexuals and lesbians like heterosexuals are only attracted to consenting adults of the same age and power. If either is attracted to children or asexual teens they may be pedophiles (children) or ****philes (attracted to young asexual teens). Pedophiles and ****philes are attracted to people with less power, have asexual features and can be controlled sexually. Contrary to popular beliefs pedophiles and ****philes are attracted to either gender as long as they are asexual in feature. There are also far more pedophiles or ****philes who identify as straight than gay even when considering the proportional ratio. Next transvestites/drag queens could be gay or straight. The straight transvestites are more likely to hide it so their true numbers are not known. Draq queens are usually gays who do not hide that and when they do dress up its usually for some kind of demonstration at an event, party or because they work as impersonators. Such people are not pedophiles and when they go to schools or libraries the idea that are trying to convert children to being gay is false. They do NOT identify as gay or straight in drag. They are in a fantasy character and it contains no sexual content anymore than a sports mascot is trying to convert children. If in fact any such person engages in sexual content that is an issue but its not because they are in drag but because they choose to act sexually-the costume doesn't trigger it, something in their psyche that pre-existed did and they use the costume to gain access to children. Pedophiles will manipulate any type of situation to get access to children.

I mention all the above because its important to keep all the above topics out of the issue as to how to treat gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria does NOT deal with pedophilia, ****philia, transvestitism or hetero or homosexuality. Try understand ones sexual preference is not determined by the fact they have gender dysphoria. This is why many people get confused when transgenders still remain attracted to the sex they were born with before they changed and others are not.

5.When one reaches puberty, at their own timed stage (everyone is different) their muscle structure starts to change, so might breast size, penis size, facial hair growth and there can be very well known psychological effects because as the male or female hormone develops so does coincidentally the size of the frontal lobe of the brain from the size of a pin head to a very large fruit. As all that happens children and teens become moody (extreme shifts of joy and sadness, high and low energy, sudden growth spurts, large amounts of eating or no eating at all (extremes), skin complexion issues, auto immune issues, and the body clock changes and they stay awake all night but want to sleep all day. Sexual arousal is enhanced not just by sexual images but by stress, anger, exposure to vibrations, smells. So without a doubt we know between 9 and about 20 depending on each individual, there is normally confusion, emotional imbalance, physical issues and this is compounded by children or teens using drugs like dope and alcohol to self medicate the symptoms. As well such teens fight with their parents. This is how their frontal lobe and emotions develop. They use their parents and loved ones as a testing ground to rebel at probably most anything. With one foot still at home and the other in public experimenting and creating new families (other teens in gangs) to create new values, they debate there way to transition. In fact rebellion and challenges are normal. The key here is to watch for young adults who want to hurt themselves or commit suicide or show early signs of mental illness that show up at puberty (not easy to detect).

6. So if you now accept a diagnosis your child has gender dysphoria (sometimes this is projected or the parents impose it on the child, the child is in fact not suffering from gender dysphoria they either are going through a stage that appears to the parents as sexual identity but is acted out as the other gender but is not part of gender dysphoria. Also some children at a very young age know they are gay and that may or may not cause them to feel they can show behaviour of the other gender but they have no gender dysphoria.

7. Because of the above here is what we do not want. If a child is born gay and feels gay the best think we can do is nothing. The same reason if they develop a stage of role playing of any kind. Its only when that behaviour is life threatening, violent or attached to express feelings of overwhelming anxiety, depression because the person feels at complete conflict with themselves. So to start with in medicine we do not just assume the person's conflict is gender dysphoria. Of course a skilled psychiatrist and/or pediatrician and other specialists will dig deep into the conflict. It could very well be something other than gender dysphoria. From my experience these could be signs of a child missing a parent who is not part of their life, sexual molestation, domestic violence or early stages of schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc. No one just jumps to gender dysphoria except believe it or not parents who project this diagnosis on their children.

So me and I am telling you the vast majority of professionals who end up treating this issue do NOT jump to any diagnosis. That is a myth.

8. Finally taking puberty blocks is at best TEMPORARY. Its used to delay puberty giving the child some extra time to deal with identity issues as to their own body. Those identity issues could have been triggered by being molested or beaten or quite frankly the child fears being gay not their set of genitals.

It of course has side effects so its not necessarily the go to automatic choice of doctors. It can help certain young adults and children ease depression or anxiety and learn to understand what gender dysphoria is and take the time to understand physically changing one's gender is painful, takes years and is a constant battle as the hormones taken cause side effects that change and get worse as one ages. Also it means necessarily straight people may stereotype you AND gays who think you hate being gay and changed your sexuality for that reason not to mention all these self professed idiots who have erroneous stereotype beliefs about the issue.

A person who does decide to change gender you must understand will be in pain. The drugs they tale can cause auto immune disorders, vitamin deficiency, trigger certain symptoms such as bone pain, swelling, severe depression or rage, nausea, vertigo, headaches, on and on. We do not know the long term effects either they are being studied. Some studies show some people may develop an increase of symptoms or conditions with heart disease, diabetes and cancer. That is very complex.

I can say some people will not be eligible for such treatment because of pre-existing medical conditions. So its complex and I trust the above adds to what Dixon said. This is serious business.

I do not downplay the seriousness of it but ultimately I argue its a decision between the patient and doctor and parents where the child is under legal age.

Gender dysphoria is complex. Labelling it as a decision based on free choice and not chemical compulsion or physical compulsion not based on free choice I leave to the patients, transgenders and their doctors. I only can attest to the pain I have seen people go through which if anything shows me their willingness to undergo that pain means they are sacrificing. Is that self indulgence as some say, for me I do not think so. I think that pain and suffering is not self indulgence. Its serious **** they undertake.

That said, I also fear certain parents who project on their children things that are not there. Do children change their mind after they start. Yes. So the idea is delay puberty and reduce that likelihood before they go on to reach puberty and make decisions to physically alter their body permanently.

 

Trans culture is a culture of extinction, it should be stopped as suicide prevention measure.

 

Jolly Penquin in the Famiy Courts in Ontario based on our laws in Canada a young adult who turns 16 until legal age of 18 (in some provinces its 19) can make their own medical decisions.

The reality though is each teen is different biologically and some kids at 13 or 14 are fully developed and others just starting and so doctors, i.e., pediatricians, psychiatrists and other specialists will look to the actual physical reality or development of a child and not just the age. So it could be in the case of a fully developed 13 or 14 year old their parents might consent. For a doctor before 16 to not get a parent's consent would trigger a court hearing. I can say from personal experience doctors rarely ignore parents and go to court with minors and when they do its usually because of an issue related to pregnancy, domestic violence, cancer treatment maybe psychiatric treatment for suicide or eating disorder but not this.

I think if you are concerned its probably the decision the consenting parents are making not the child or doctors and quite frankly in the US and Canada when a parent consents to a certain treatment or does not consent to a certain treatment taking them to court is complex and having been in such matters in court I can say Judges are reluctant to ignore a parent's wishes unless its life threatening or the parent has a conflict (they lost custody of their child, beat the child, raped the child).

I think the media sensationalizes this issue and makes it appear there are vast amounts of children without their parent's consent taking puberty blockers. If you research it, its not the norm. Its serious stuff.

I personally know parents who demanded it but the doctors would not do it-they felt the child with the gender dysphoria did not need it.

I do know one example of a girl they did give it to. She was 13 and tried to cut off her own breasts. Her parents were in a constant state of domestic turmoil. She had also repeatedly attempted suicide. When I spoke with her she was unusually bright (high iq tested) still had a high voice but looked male, was very polite and absolutely suicidal over the matter. Children's aid had intervened. I was the court appointed mediator but it went to a Judge. The parents were overwhelmed, the child spoke to the Judge in private and Children's Aid and the parents at the last second brought me into the Judge and asked I discuss the mediation which I was not allowed to do. However the Judge did ask me as a friend of the court to go outside with them which I did. They then went back in and decided for the child undergoing chemical intervention at 13. I am not sure what to tell you. I can only tell you the child was a good person in turmoil.

Me personally I was taught chemical intervention is the last resort only if a person can not accept their body and so before you make that decision you try see if they accept themselves without physical change.

Ok so let us argue this girl was underage and had a mental illness. Yes its called gender dysphoria. You can't lock her in a room until she is 20 and then at that point stop her from a sex change. So? Its not easy.

Me I dealt more with domestic violence and as bad as those cases were they are far easier than those gender dysphoria ones or incest-abortion cases. There is no one size fits all approach.

I think try be as careful as possible before making such decisions. From what I could see parents not doctors were the ones who made questionable decisions. I am not saying all doctors are perfect but they are not emotionally attached so when they listen to patients they are far more objective.

I do know children who wanted to mutilate their genitals but this was because they felt it would stop their parents or others from molesting them. That's a different thing.

 

Words that can only be said by the desperately uninformed

 

That makes no sense. Once someone is of legal age they are free to make the decision and changing your gender does not kill you it alters your female and male hormones. In fact if you prevent specific people from engaging in it they will kill themselves. You won't prevent it, you will cause it.

If you are under the assumption you kill people giving them sex hormones to change their hormonal balance you are wrong. They are making that decision precisely so they can live. To them you don't kill them, you help them achieve a full life.

You clearly impose your beliefs on others. Gender dysphoria has nothing to do with extinction and everything to do with an individual making an adjustment to a condition they feel is impairing their ability to live. Hell I am not telling you to agree with it. I am saying your assuming they are killing themselves is an illogical assumption.

I could use the exact same generalization with you in regards to your lifestyle and decisions you are now making that are going to give you cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. would that be helpful? Are you suicidal and seeking extinction if you drink alcohol, smoke, have unprotected sex, drive too fast? How far do we go with these moral assumptions?

 

Child mutilation is a physical process, it is self-evident so no additional information is necessary. There is basically nothing to be informed of, it is 100% self-explanatory.

 

Yep, if you kill human society you need to treated as a killer.

 

It appears "self explanatory" to you. That is simply your way of saying you have a closed mind on the topic, have made up your mind, and if anyone disagrees with you they are wrong.

Kreo if anyone says human behaviour is self explanatory I have only one thing to say-it never is. All human behaviour has layers of different motives, meanings, contexts. To an uninformed person they see only one immediate layer. Nothing when it comes to humans is obvious. If you think it is its because you choose not to see certain cause and effects behind the behaviour that are far more complex than one black and white size fits all.

Next having witnessed people who have mutilated (more correctly stated as self-harmed) themselves I can tell you that a person undergoing a surgical operation on consent and a person who attacks others or themselves with a sharp object is not the same. If you can't see the difference that is your deliberate choice to ignore the difference.

 

Kreo and with due respect because your comment is serious and not meant to be ignorant but express a wide spread belief about morality I get your point. I know in the Judeo-Christian passages the heterosexual family is defined as the building block of any human society. I think you refer not just to the New Testament but back to Moses. I get that.

You read my comments. I am typical of a modern version of mental health professionals you disagree with.

That does not mean I do not understand your moral concern based on your religious beliefs. I also read and sometimes wonder do certain people have an agenda to impose a lifestyle based on "Satanic" or immoral beliefs.

Honestly I am concerned with just how many people today seem to have jumped on a trend bandwagon that being asexual or bisexual or pansexual is a must have if you are going to be woke. That and a Palestinian flag, and give the be quite sign with your finger or hand over one eye.

I get all that. I completely ignore it Kreo and I will tell you why. Each generation has its idiot trends. This one will pass as have all the others. Every generation finds a way to mark the human body and try alter it for religious and peer group reasons. Tatoos, piercings, plastic surgery, hey it moves in waves as to what part of the body is altered. OK so we have moved on from piercing the vagina and penis with metal to completely changing them. The side effects are a reality and the more transgender people there are the more likely they will explain to the woke ones how its not a joke, its not a trend, its not like piercing your nipple and it actually will decrease in popularity because of the honesty of transgender people explaining what it means.

Yah I know you think I am nuts. Give it another year or so. Medicine expresses the social values of the day. Those values change faster than Trump farts in trials.

By the way trends whether it be genital choice, Trump, Gaza, that is all they are to most attention deficient
Westerners. They move on. No society won't change. No the majority of humans won't stop reproducing because of sex change. In fact Male humans are becoming sterile from estrogen from plastics polluting the planet. If you are concerned then might I suggest you read up on plastic garbage and what it is doing to our sperm.

 

Precisely the opposite. Recent Swedish study found that people who have medically transitioned have a suicide rate 13 times that of the general public.

 

Are points 2-8 going to be irrelevant to my points as well?

 

My reply had nothing to do with the after effects of surgery or mutilation but rather that the children are brainwashed into believing that such things are 'normal'

 

Your comments about being "brainwashed" were in reference to circumcision. Your comment regarding chopping off genitals and gonads is that you-

And parents arent being brainwashed into circumcising their kids. Well, at least for the non Jews, the majority of circumcisions. And I wouldnt label religious requirements as brainwashing. Especially if ancient religious requirements actually have or had a non religious, rational basis for the requirement. Or even without a rational basis, if no harm is done in fulfilling the requirement. I think prohibitions of eating pork are silly, but no harm is done. Im sure the pigs like it and more bacon for me

You should have a problem when operations are performed at Insurance company's and ALL their customers expense because Insurance is required by law to cover them.
AND you should have a problem when Drs brainwash gender confused kids and their parents into believing changing ones sex is "normal". AND brainwashed into believing the surgery is required to prevent the inevitable suicide by the kid if sex change doesnt occur. People AFTER medically transitioning sex are THIRTEEN times more likely to commit suicide. Medically transitioning increases the chance of suicide.

 

Another win for the transgenders. The "Boy Scouts" are dropping "boy" from their name to be more inclusive. Not sure how the Girl Scouts are going to feel about that. How about the masculine scouts and feminine scouts?

 

Is this only for “kids” I.e. what age? And B) does it cover those kids requiring medical interventions for intersex issues (I.e. born with micro penis)

 

I would have zero issues with a medical board overnighting cases as they are far more likely to be fully aware of all the relevant data and research. They would, for example be able to differentiate between psychologically based gender dysphoria and physiologically based issues such as CAIS or the myriad of other genetic/developmental disorders classified under “intersex/DSD”

 

Thing is - what has happened to the right to privacy when it comes to healthcare? I mean every time these laws are passed it seems the right to privacy goes out the window

 

There is no right to privacy.

 

There is for healthcare. As usual, rights are logically derived from context. Privacy is essential because without an expectation of privacy, patients are less comfortable sharing critical but embarrassing details needed for diagnosis and treatment. Without this trust, all of healthcare is undermined.

 

Really? Whar about HIPPA???

without some privacy protection a health provider could hand over your entire medical history to anyone. Imagine your boss finding out you had an STD or erectile dysfunction

 

I called those bastards not letting 5 year olds drink or get tattoos or smoke cigarettes it's all fascism.

What planet are you living on where it would be okay to ruin a child to play patty cake with the stupid gender crap?

Actually telling a kid they're born in the wrong body and they need hormones and surgery to be fixed that's worse than fascism it's extreme bigotry and any doctors practicing this should be put in jail.

 

It isn't healthcare to poison a child with puberty blockers and cross sex hormones and then mutilate and sterilize them with brainless concepts of gender conformity.

People can't change their sex so all you're doing to a person when you give them cross sex hormones and chop bits off of them is you're harming them.

Harming people is not healthcare.