Surrendering Control of Wombs to Politicians is a very bad idea.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Natty Bumpo, Apr 19, 2024.

  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you'd rather 9 men in black robes decide it your way But the federal government is heavily involved in medicine science and academia mostly to its detrimemt.
     
  2. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When the authoritarians abrogate a half century of reproductive freedom in the most personal and private of decisions, they are hellbent upon crushing liberty wherever it it exercised.

    Screen Shot 2023-02-10 at 3.51.36 PM.png


     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  3. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What "forced medical treatment"?

    Who are your "progressive authoritarian collectivist ideologues"?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  4. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,695
    Likes Received:
    4,035
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is a different culture. Far fewer fundamentalist Christians and far fewer who think "life begins at conception". I live in Canada and have never met anyone in person with that view, but frequently meet Americans online who hold it.

    I think you may be mistaken on your quote above. I recognize the quote as from a women's rights advocate and not from a government official (but maybe more than one woman said it).

    Canada did used to have legislation against abortion, but it was struck down in the late 80s bu the supreme Court and thrown back to parliament to make a new law. Parliament never made one.

    What I find interesting is that following the fall of Roe v Wade in the US, making a new law enshrining abortion as a right did occur to some leftist politicians, but abortion rights advocate groups actually oppose the idea, fearing it would open the topic, and could end up with a new anti-abortion law.
    See the following article from the CBC if you are interested in learning more:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6503899
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah because insisting that the right to murder babies for fun and profit is a sacrosanct right but the right to decide whether or not to take an unproven shot or what light bulb to use or what sort of toilette to put in your house only the government can make...
     
  6. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The dogmatic insistence that microscopic, mindless amalgams of cells are people is irrational.

    It's the equivalent of insisting that every acorn is an oak tree, and every pile of acorns is a forest.
     
  7. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your hysterical "murder babies for fun and profit" exposes your fanaticism.

    Yes, you are prohibited from killing vermin with a bazooka in your neighborhood, because your neighbors have rights as well. Communal standards exist.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Which has nothing to do with anything I said.
     
  9. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you respect communal standards? Do you resent being required to use 110 volt ac current, or observe the rules on public roadways - speed limits, etc.?

    Do you respect most Americans opposing authoritarians' trashing everyone's reproductive freedom?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  10. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,695
    Likes Received:
    4,035
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By not getting the vaccine, and then insisting on coming into contact with others, you endanger them, or so the argument went. Those others are people, and have rights found to outweigh yours in this case , similar to your right to swing your fist stopping at my nose.

    And in most places I am aware of, people were not tied down and injected by force, but instead restricted where they could go with their virus threat.

    It's more like restricting where people can bring guns. I am surprised we so often saw this compared to the abortion debate and not the gun debate.

    If people had been injected by force (did that happen anywhere?), that would be about bodily autonomy, and would be the weighing it against the safety of other persons. Fetuses are not persons. if they were then abortion would be murder.

    Personally, I think more legal consideration should be given to the unborn in the latter stages of development. I would not oppose a law outlawing abortion near the end of the pregnancy unless the life/health of the mother is in danger. That seems fair to me and it happens so infrequently that I don't see why pro-choice groups won't make that concession.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  11. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    8,695
    Likes Received:
    4,035
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, that is dogmatic and mindless. But it is also dogmatic and mindless to think a baby a second after birth should be given rights and a baby a second before birth should not be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    39,052
    Likes Received:
    15,016
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The government has religious beliefs it is forcing on others through itself? Either a fetus is a human or not. It is the only issue. Obviously it is. No amount of fussing and inconvenience changes that.
     
  13. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    41,977
    Likes Received:
    15,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree. That is why I concur with the majority of Americans who supported Roe v Wade and still do
     
    Jolly Penguin and Bowerbird like this.
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,888
    Likes Received:
    75,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yeah! Bottom line your culture is actually closer to ours than the USA. You appear to have that wide streak of pragmatism mixed with an acute bullshit detection system. But an even more important point is what is NOT happening in Canada…..
    • Women aren’t using abortion as birth control
    • Women aren’t having abortions in the eighth month just to get into a new bathing suit
    • Women aren’t having aboertiosn “out of spite”
    • the rate of abortions is actually lower in Canad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_abortion_rate (although I suspect that is due to access to LARCS)
     
    Jolly Penguin likes this.
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,888
    Likes Received:
    75,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    How often does this come up? And the answer is actually more often than you believe. The big issue is around medical care and interventions. Let’s say a woman is told her baby requires remedial cardiac surgery and it can be done in utero. Whose decision is it to go ahead with that surgery? Baby is born and had Tetralogy of Fallot - does the baby get to decide if it is to undergo surgery for this?
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,888
    Likes Received:
    75,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Wut???
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    93,888
    Likes Received:
    75,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Again - where is that happening?
     
  18. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    21,170
    Likes Received:
    7,793
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Except its irrelevant.
     
  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Every planned parent hood in the country...
     
  20. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes and the Klan thought that was irrelevant of you were and the Nazis thought it was irrlevant if you were a Jew or a Gypsy or a Slav
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is no evidence that the covid shot works as either a vaccine or a cure and the side effects are starting to become too obvious to ignore. When you tell people they have to have a shot that does not provably work in order to feed their family I can truthfully say that damn well happen here. The first shot was not different from a flu shot. After the second I felt like crap for three days. There is no way I am taking a third.

    Everyone in DC has had multiple covid shots yet they all got covid often multiple times. The shot didn't save their lives the constant reduction in the lethality of covid from Omicron forward did.
     
  22. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    21,170
    Likes Received:
    7,793
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which has nothing to do with abortion.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    58,100
    Likes Received:
    17,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But everything to do with your rationality for tolerating it.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    151,952
    Likes Received:
    63,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    then like any other human, if I connect myself to you and am to survive off your blood supply, it's not a crime for you to disconnect me - the real issue is a fetus has never been born, even in the bible they were not considered alive until their first breath
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  25. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2020
    Messages:
    21,170
    Likes Received:
    7,793
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No it doesn't. Its very simple, if the woman doesn't want it inhabiting her body she has every right to have it removed even if this results in its death
     

Share This Page