The Classic Strawman: But 47% Don't Pay Taxes!

Now, let me 'add' some other perspective to the graph you shared.

 

Mother Jones? Really?

Anyway the rise of the 1% just shows that most of the increase in productivity is due to the top 1%, which makes sense in the information/technology age, and that everyone is also getting richer.

Instead of trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, realize that we are getting richer and our lives are getting better.

 

Get over it.

So you say. (Your opinion.) It shows at least, that the total game is rigged.

You hang out and embrace that "fantasy" (you and your goose), while I and millions of others push for a BETTER way/system. (Time to TAME that freakin' goose of yours.)

 

Umm.. becuase the top 1% came up with innovative and technologically advanced products and ways to make money without requiring a manufacturing base in America.

If I set up a supply chain, and invest in all the product and don't require a single American worker to do so.. then I shouldn't be punished for being smarter than you, the American worker.

I don't need you, and that is your problem, quit trying to make your problems mine. I don't need to share your problems.

Government cannot just legislate companies to need the fat, lazy American manufacturing worker again.

 

So what is your brilliant suggestion? Everyone should simply just become doctors, lawyers, and hedge fund managers? Its downright pathetic at how much of a corporate drone you are.

 

Time to repair/adjust the system. People believing the kinds of things YOU promote... is what got this nation in the trouble we're in today.

 

A better system than making your own living is taking it from someone else?

Yeah, that will work out just swell.

You and your millions are wrong and stand in the way of human liberty and progress.

 

I'm not calling for that; though you imagine that I do. So be it.

I don't think it is "swell" that you cannot see the real problems.

If "liberty" means allowing the wealthiest and the smartest to game the system and manipulate the middle class... then hell yes, I'll find ways to stand in the way.

 

The problem being that we are all getting richer and enjoying a higher standard of living?

 

Give me a break...Its totally absurd how you buy into the right wing trash that "companies are hurting" when direct concrete evidence is shown that corporations are profiting the most in history.

Yes I know, how dare people want higher pay..That would of course tap into those poor struggling corporate profits.

 

That is just your opinion and to that I say "opinions are like asses, everyone has one"

 

Well keep your ass clean then, because it's going to get looked-at THIS national election cycle (and beyond).

 

First of all, people have higher pay today than they did in the past.

Secondly, everyone wants to make more money. There are two ways to do it. One is to produce more value. The other is to steal. You guys just want to use the government to steal, to force people to give you more money.

You are immoral theiving looters.

 

Even if Obama wins, the next 4 years won't be any different from the last 2. And god help us if people elect dems after another 4 years of this nonsense. We will have issues bigger than any election could change, like a retarded and useless electorate to deal with.

 

The "rich" only need such "legal protections" because liberal leftists, because it just so happens to suit their own little socialist goals, to create class envy and class warfare where none existed.

Will not quit abusing the authority and power of government, attempting to legislatively, and rather unconstitutionally at that, steal the money of these so called "rich".

Because these hypocritical liberals, who not only turn a blind eye to certain "rich" liberals paying zero in taxation when it's convenient for them to ignore such behavior.

Or when said liberals who don't pay their fair share in taxation, suddenly become a topic which is politically inconvenient for the liberals.

But preach about how they should be paying more all the while breaking current tax laws in order to not pay anything at all.

Not only wish to try and divide Americans along economic lines. In the hope that by doing so, they can get their boy Obammy re-elected.

But also because these nasty liberal socialists errr I mean "modern progressives" infesting our government and it's institutions can go right on spending our nation into bankruptcy, the way they have bee doing.



Oh we didn't want that pointed out either did we liberals.

 

Get off of it! There are a range of other problems which you seem to want to ignore, and dangle that interpretation of yours as if it answers the big picture. It doesn't.

But not everyone is "greedy" and "manipulative". Many people want to make a decent living and have a good job; health care also. Not everyone seeks to be filthy rich, and the real odds against becoming truly wealthy, are tremendously high. Fine if one aspires to be successful, but expecting to be "rich" is a pipe dream for most people. Lust for wealth RUINS many human beings. Not to get 'biblical', but a few years of living shows an astute person that is true.

Did you notice that productivity of Americans did go UP, but pay generally remained flat since 1979? Oh yes... we need to revise the very system we all live under. The goal of Americans should never have been to keep the wealthy, wealthy (and make them wealthier). We've had enough of that (especially after 200.

Time for a change.

Getting into the works and changing the system is no more stealing, than it was when the wealthy and SLY got in and arranged to receive exponentially great advantages over the middle class for themselves (in our laws of commerce and in the tax codes). People can play razzle-dazzle with technical details... but a person with good common sense realizes the system is DELIBERATELY stacked against them. Time for the American people to make a move, and change things.

No. I want the government there to provide a counterbalance to CORPORATIONS; so that they DO NOT continue to take any and every 'advantage' of hard working people they WISH to.

What, do YOU think that corporations somehow have feelings for or really CARE about YOU? If that why you resist the reasonable call for proper government regulation of things?

You are just calling names. If that somehow satisfies you... so be it.

 

The other problems are inventions of the poverty pimps that brainwash the left for votes. All of our income has increased. It's a fact and it's simple truth negates your entire class warfare worldview.

But did it? Notice that the income of the top 1% was mentioned but not the productivity of the top 1%. The graph is intentionally misleading. The working rich, who earn an income, are the ones who due to technology are responsible for the lion's share of the increase in productivity.

And did pay remain flat? Real income is up 25% since then. That's not flat by my definition. Stating that a 25% increase in real income is flat sounds like you need to turn your brain on. Of course, I'm using a real graph with sourced information to determine that not something pulled off of mother jones.

Forcing someone to give you something is called theft. If you want more money, learn a new skill. You can go be a plumber and earn 6 figures by the time you make journeyman status in some parts. The problem is you, not the system.

 

Did you miss the part where the conversation is about the rich paying more "INCOME TAX"??

You have facts to support the idea that 47% of the population are broke??"
2. The Effective Rate thing. They use the 47% don't pay taxes as if it applies to the Middle Class. it doesn't. Ask yourself this question: Do youpay taxes? About what percent do you pay? If it's more than 18%, you're paying more than millionaires or most business-owners. [/quote]

That is a lie and you know it. Most millionaires pay taxes on income not capital gains. Capital gains is around 17% . Then you tell another lie with no proof - that most business owners pay less than 18%

Two of Obama's best friends pay little or no taxes, GE and Buffet. So talk to your president and ask him to make GE pay their taxes instead of holding GE up as one of the good guys.

Why not?? If my boss holds my pay and let's in grow in the company then in the end I will come out ahead. Or if I make bad decision - like wasting my time talking to idiots - the company will not make as much as it might have and the money I leave in the company could be lost. Any time I risk my money any gain I realize should be taxed at a rate that encourages me to take chances with my capital.

Laws that were written by dems years and years ago and not touched when they held the House, the Senate and the White house. Obama could have done whatever he wanted and he chose to spend over a year doing his health care disaster.

[quoteSo yes. Our tax system is unfair. It offers loopholes to "everyone" - that only the rich can afford to use. This is the only country I've ever lived in, where people will actually say "Oh those poor rich people, THEY are the ones needing protecting!" .
Now they're talking about eliminating the deduction for mortgage interest. Does anyone NOT see the long-term consequence of such follishness? Some day historians will look at this period at our history and say "That's when the Middle Class that used to exist in America, voted themselves out of existence."[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should take your ass back to one of the other countries that you love so much. BY...

 

You're just calling names, pointing fingers and stereotyping; I won't be taking you seriously today.

Middle class people are literally having their wealth ripped-off, and you make excuses for a system that has been deliberately stacked against them. Really, it is both infuriating and sickening.

 

47% don't pay income taxes?

Good, now we can work on making it so the other 53% don't have to pay income taxes either.

 

Where'd you get this idea?

Hold it. You understand the writeoffs, but you still said what you said initially?

Non sequitur.

 

Well, you can look at real numbers or you can believe progressive propaganda and lies. The data says you are full of crap. The middle class is getting richer.

If you are too dense to understand that, I'm going to keep making fun of you.

 

Take a look at the following data. Note that real income is not the same as real wealth, because it doesn't take into account assets minus debts (your real wealth at the current moment is your net worth). Increased indebtedness has helped to offset much of that increase in real income for the bottom 83% of American households. Even without that caveat, it becomes obvious who is benefiting more from the past 30 years, and also note the middle quintile did worse than the fourth quintile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/inequality/index.html (see spreadsheet for all races in current dollars)
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/inequality/tablea3.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/inequality/middleclass.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/inequality/tablea2.html
http://www.economicgreenfield.com/2011/09/14/u-s-real-mean-household-income-growth-chart-1967-2010/
http://goldstockstoday.com/2011/12/by-the-numbers-a-closer-look-at-the-real-wealth-of-us-households/
http://theunderstatement.com/post/3999331289/us-wealth-distribution-visualized

Try reading all this and get back to us, jhffmn.

 

You're acting as a 'propagandist', and generally don't realize it. I'm no expert on economics, but I know that most experts I've paid attention to, disagree with you.

The REAL income of the majority of Americans has GONE DOWN.

 

That should be easy to prove, shouldn't it?

Prove it.