The Creation of the Federal Reserve System

Probably not, but I wouldn't give the government my gold anyway, they don't deserve it.

What does that prove anyway? If the government doesn't take gold it has no value? I'll let the market decide what has value and what doesn't. The government is useless and unnecessary.

 

You stated that all fiat money has failed, which your implying that the gold standard has succeeded. So what can you pay your taxes with or what can you buy a taco with? Whatever is the answer is what has succeeded.

 

Not really. Gold and silver have been a form of currency for millennia. The US dollar as a fiat currency has only been in existence for 40 years. It will fail, all fiat money systems fail, without exception.

 

All societies fail. The reason you guys think that gold is better than fiat is because gold still exists as a resource that people want to exchange for all over the world. That is a stupid argument. If a system no longer uses the gold standard than the gold standard has failed, that is the bottom line. There is not a country in the world that uses the gold standard, because the gold standard has failed.

It's as simple as that. The day you can go to the store and purchase your food with gold pieces will be the day that you can say the gold standard succeeded.

But as of now, you guys are just tin foil hat wearing nut jobs.

 

Societies don't fail, governments fail, as do their paper money. Governments only exist through force, as do their fiat money. The reason the gold standard no longer exists is because governments have eliminated it through force.
If it were up to the market to decide, the gold standard would be the coin of the realm.

 

Does the gold standard exist?

 

Of course I do. What difference does it make what form the money takes on?

It's not a "fact". "Essentially" the same is a subjective manner of putting things. It's really irrelevent. So I disagree with your opinion that they are not "essentially" the same.

 

No, it's not allowed. What's your point? The coercive nature of the state and their fiat money system is somehow superior than a market chosen commodity based currency?

Just because the gold standard is illegal doesn't make it a failure, it's just that the state would lose too much influence over the citizenry.

 

I still fail to see your point. After the Fed was established, the treasury could only print as much money as the Federal Reserve told it to. It was and still is illegal to do otherwise.

 

Since when do you care about the Constitution?
There is zero authorization for a central bank in the Constitution.

Who's the one espousing political propaganda again? Government does not create economic productivity; only the free market does.

 

Indeed. It is much like the illusion that the government controls the FRB, when the actual control lies with the most influential member banks lobbying and pressuring the President and Congress to make the correct appointments to the FRB.

 

Why do you think "conspiracy theorists" think that Wilson was unhappy about signing the Fed Reserve Act? Of course he wasn't. He was thrilled that passed through Congress. He was part of the propaganda machine that saddled up public opinion into supporting the Federal Reserve Act.

 

You do realize that the Fed has the power to monetize foreign debt too, don't you? It's effectively the central bank of the entire world. The only difference is that the entire world isn't forced to accept the Federal Reserve Note through legal tender laws.

 

Hopelessly ignorant. Without the Fed, Congress couldn't spend nearly as much money as they do. They'd have to raise taxes to pay for everything they're paying for now.

The Fed does not make money. There is no profit. It is not a corporation. It is not a private entity. It's a non-profit independent government agency.

 

No it doesn't

 

you're the one that introduced the term 'essentially' into the argument

my assertion has always been that the aldrich plan is different than the federal reserve, it's a fact, like it or not g edward griffin was wrong, you are too

i know it because i'm well informed on this subject

 

The Fed has absolutely no worries about how much money exists. They have no dependance on the Fed whatsoever. You are simply making up your conspiracies again.

Sure it does. It makes tons of money. The Fed made $81 billion in profit last year.

 

Every society that has used a true gold standard has failed because it started clipping its coins, or simply moved over to fractional reserve currency, which always degenerates into pure fiat eventually. All fiat currencies fail because they are not real money. They are only forced on people as money by the state.

For some reason you are incapable of comprehending the fact that the only reason people don't use gold as money is because of legal tender laws requiring people to accept fiat currency. Fiat currency is not a natural product of the market. It is a product of the state using its false currency as a means to extract wealth out of its subjects without raising taxes.

In some sense, you are correct about this. The gold standard fails because people who have it eventually allow it to be abused by the state, degenerating it into a fractional reserve standard, and eventually into a pure fiat standard. Don't worry, we will most likely see the failure of the Federal Reserve Note in the coming years.

You're outnumbered. Did you ever stop to think that you're the insane one?

 

The Five Stages of Acceptance:

 

Name one country out of 196 countries that still have the gold standard. Exactly... all societies have failed. Just because gold still exists doesn't mean the monetary system didn't fail.

A medium of exchange is not supposed to be a natural product of the market. It is supposed to represent the markets productivity.

So 196 countries in the world and not one uses the gold standard yet you still say that it is a superior system. This is border line psychotic talk.

I'm outnumbered on the internet. I've been to college and around intelligent people my whole life... and not one of them has ever talked about the gold standard other than we used to use it back when we road horses and died from chicken pox.

 

Resorting to pictures now... cute

 

Of course it's different. Nobody said it wasn't different. Being "Essentially" the same and being "exactly" the same are two different things. Don't believe me? Get a dictionary. In my opinion they are essentially the same. We already have established what the differences are between the two bills, and I have explained to you why there is still barely any difference between the two. You are just too stubborn to admit that the banking lobby controls the Fed. Or maybe you're just in denial. Or maybe you're just hopelessly utopic.

Your self-righteous ego alone is not good enough for you to win a debate.

 

You're extremely misinformed. One of the stated objectives of the Fed is price stability. That is the reason the Fed has a monopoly over the Federal Reserve Note.

It's becoming convenient for you to throw around the word "conspiracy" and "tinfoil hat" everytime somebody presents factual information that shatters your worldview. Be careful, you're diluting the terms.

Where does the government get the money it spends if it doesn't get it through taxing?

The Fed does not keep that "profit". It remits it back to the treasury.

 

I meant Congress, my bad

You haven't presented any facts other than your subjective opinion on how gold is magical. There is no data you use whatsoever. You are the one saying that all the most powerful countries in the world do not know what they are doing and they would be better off relying on a stupid metal found in the ground. This is beyond dumb... I mean this is the conversation they were having almost 150 years ago. And smart people realized how dumb it was to rely on how much gold you find in the ground to produce.

No where, it creates it. Which is the key piece that makes almost all peoples arguments against the Govt incorrect. The Govt does NOT need China or you to fund their spending. WE need the Govt to spend in order for us to be able to purchase their debt. You have absolutely zero understanding of how our current economic system works.

Correct

 

that has nothing to do with it, i'm presenting referenced material with a link

"One of the best resources on the Federal Reserve is The Creature of Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. In his book, Griffin tells of a secret meeting held at Jekyll Island in Georgia. It was here that secretive men set to paper the ideas for the Federal Reserve and began animating this monster.

Essentially what came out of that meeting on Jekyll Island in 1910 was an agreement amongst the most powerful bankers to create a cartel wherein they would ensure not only their success in America but could profit to the maximum extent of their imaginations. They were very careful to make sure that no one knew they were meeting. They avoided being seen together at dinner, didn’t sit together on the train, and used false names or only first names to protect their dark secret. Frank Vanderlip later admitted, “If it were to be exposed publicly that our particular group had got together and written a banking bill, that bill would have no chance whatever of passage by Congress” (Quoted in Edwards, 11). Their secret was kept; the bill passed in the House and the Senate and Woodrow Wilson signed it into law. Later, President Wilson realized his mistake and lamented,

* “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.""

http://www.americantusk.com/what-every-american-should-know-about-the-federal-reserve.html

* it a lie, a complete fabrication


here's another shyster web site that uses the same false information you do:


"If you want to understand the scam of the Federal Reserve system, you won't get a better inside look than G. Edward Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island" – a modern-day classic work on the smoke, mirrors, pulleys, cogs and wheels that create the grand illusion Americans call money.

Rep. Ron Paul calls it a "superb analysis.""

"In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson approved the Federal Reserve Act. A few years later, he reflected:
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.""

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=266457