The debt is proof of our wealth

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by GodTom, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    False.
    Which is convenient, as they typically don't achieve it...
     
    Baff likes this.
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You forgot to account for why worker owned enterprises have higher productivity levels. I'm sure you forgot!
     
  3. GodTom

    GodTom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    48
    How is an economic downturn every 8 years and stagnant wage growth something to be proud of?
     
  4. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Debt money creates positive feedback in both the expansion and contraction phases, and is therefore inherently unstable. The mechanism is straightforward. Debt money is created by bank lending for asset purchases. The increased supply of money for asset purchases increases demand and thus asset prices. The increase in asset prices makes asset purchases more attractive, increasing demand for loans to buy assets. This positive feedback continues until loans cannot be serviced, at which point lending declines to less than loan repayments. This contracts the money supply, reducing asset prices. Falling asset prices reduces demand for loans for asset purchases still further, leading to additional money contraction as loan repayments erase money that is not replaced by new loans. This continues until assets can yield enough income to service loans, at which point it becomes attractive to borrow for asset purchases again.
    If by "core" you mean "mainstream" or even "acceptable to the editors of peer-reviewed economics journals," then you will search in vain, as they don't even recognize what debt money is, or the differences between the different kinds of money.
     
  5. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If they did, we would all be working for worker-owned enterprises, wouldn't we?
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't be naive! The empirical evidence shows higher productivity levels. Profiteering is a different issue, which of course naturally generates inefficiency in capitalism
     
  7. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Provide one paper that supports your position. Just one.
     
  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just explained to you that such papers can't be published because they do not support the joint socialist-neoclassical narrative that removes the concept of justice from economics.
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, despite economics being composed of multiple schools of thought, you can't refer one economist that agrees with your rant? Its a shame that I saw that coming.
     
  10. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, really? Measured how?
    How do the inefficient capitalist firms compete with the more productive worker-owned firms, hmmmmm?
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How do you think? Its a simple empirical problem. You really hate economics don't you?

    Monopoly power is inefficient, by definition. Guess how they continue? Economic rent. Crikey, for someone that blubbers over land you should know that!
     
  12. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So was pre-Keplerian astronomy.
    Can you reference any astronomy papers before Kepler that agree with Kepler's Laws? Does that mean Kepler was wrong?
    It's a shame I saw your reliance on academic gatekeepers coming.
     
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I laughed at this effort. You can't refer to any economics and any economist. And you blame others for that? Super!
     
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I hate lies and the lying liars who tell them.
    So now capitalist producers of commodities somehow collect rents, but landowners don't...?

    It's a shame that I saw that coming....
     
  15. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,954
    Likes Received:
    3,176
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I blame those who refuse to countenance anything that hasn't already been said before. You might be one of them.
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Get back to me when you're credible. Even conspiracy theorists try harder than you!
     
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're not even managing Georgism here! There's no content.
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,645
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your personal assumptions and individual conclusion are pretty meaningless. They sure don't reflect reality in this case.
     
  19. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we consider a libNazi govt killing millions to steal their land as genocidal. Why waste our time? Private property is universal and natural. Besides, if a libcommie govt owned all the land their monopoly would cause an instant and huge depression. Why not get one other person anywhere on earth as insane as you on your side before you bother us again with what by any standard is insanity?
     
  20. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And when you speak to me like that I become even less interested in helping you with your problems.
    Re inventing the wheel? That's not progress.

    That's time wasting. And I have very little patience with time wasters.

    You have no problem. You wish to run a hippy business. Carry on. No one is stopping you. No one has ever been stopping you.

    Who cares about your little business. It's got nothing to do with me and the problems I have to solve in my life, have nothing to do with you either.
    Jog on.
     
    Ndividual likes this.
  21. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To the end of boring yourself.
     
  22. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    well yes we live in a largely free Republican economy where he is 100% free to run a hippy co-op business
    . But that is not what he wants, he wants a libcommie govt to force every business, at gunpoint, to operate as a libcommie business. Why? Because as a lib commie he is naturally violent and deeply believes in violence against others when they don't accept his deadly egomanical ideas.
     
  23. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another WSDE thread?
    Could you provide us with a couple of examples of "equivalent" WSDE and capitalist businesses showing the WSDE to be more productive and more profitable than its capitalist competitor?
    Oh, and not simply due to the environment in which they are located and do business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  24. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not all businesses could be run as WSDEs, but businesses where there is little difference between the value of work done by each employee and expertise required might tend to survive.
     
  25. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,960
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Isn't a WSDE private owned too? Corporations are owned by those who provided the investment to create them, and later those who have bought shares from the original investors and/or shares sold by the corporation to expand.
    I own shares in a number of Corporations, but none of a WSDE, so I find public traded corporations much more beneficial to me than a WSDE.
     

Share This Page