the fetus is like the modern-day slave

Are there any other reasons that pro lifers might want to "punish women for sex"?

Also, do you have any other proof that pro lifers really don't want to make abortion illegal because "they care about saving the lives of innocent babies", but that they really want to punish women for sex?

 

How can you a pagan address what someone who is a believer feels and knows according to their beliefs? How do I want to punish women for having sex outside marriage? How in America does this happen? We are a socialistic, humanistic....godless society that embraces everything your position holds precious...and deviant. You can be a woman who lives with a man, has sex with a woman...causal sex with a football team for that matter...make a porno...be gay....bash Christians and religion and ITS ACCEPTED. Even the ACLU defends pedophelia...and terrorists. Today a woman can get away with killing her child, claiming battered womans syndrome to get out of anything. Today a woman can screw physically and financially any man she comes in contact with....she holds all the cards in society.

I might believe that someone is sinning because of my beliefs but I certainly do not force my beliefs on others. It is the other way around today. The godless humanistic worldview is forced on me. My speech and religious freedom is censored...and it is the goal of many to oust God from everything.

The fact is....your position is hypocritical...you are forcing women to adhere to your beliefs regarding late term abortion. YOUR POSITION IS ANTI-WOMAN, ANTI-CHOICE.

 

Sam for them this total issue is about sex...not LIVES. It is about power...the power to kill. AND SEX CAN KILL. It can infect someone with a virus that kills them...it can lead to killing a child.

THEY DON'T CARE. The power trumps the life started in the womb. The position gets off on this...

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Sam for them this total issue is about sex...not LIVES. It is about power...the power to kill. AND SEX CAN KILL. It can infect someone with a virus that kills them...it can lead to killing a child.

THEY DON'T CARE. The power trumps the life started in the womb. The position gets off on this...

 

It's all a part of keeping women under control. It's maintaining a patriarchal society where women are controlled. It benefits insecure men if women are "under" their direction, and it benefits some women who have learned to manipulate the system to their benefit.

It is proof that most pro-lifers don't want to extend government benefits to save the lives of innocent children by universal health care, or any other benefits. It is proof that most pro-lifers resist programs that would reduce abortion such as free birth control which has been proven effective, comprehensive sex ed, etc. A law alone doesn't reduce abortion, they will continue in about the same numbers without other programs, but a law alone seems to be all pro-lifers want.

 

Ya, no anti-woman statements in THAT post! LOL!!!!

 

Yes, I am.

 

Many pro-lifers are men, men who do not want women to have that much control. Haven't you seen many pro-life men on these forums suggest that women should have the permission of the potential father to abort? That certainly suggests it's about control rather an overwhelming concern for fetal life.

Many pro-lifers are women who are past their reproductive years and resent younger women having control that they did not have. Many pro-lifers are women who have never experienced pregnancy/childbirth and so do not understand the physical, emotional, and financial problems that make pregnancy/childbirth seem like punishment.

 

Who is forcing you to have an abortion? Who is forcing you to marry a woman? Who is forcing you to do any of the things you view as morally wrong? How are you being censored? Do you think it is censorship when the government refuses to force others to abide by your moral beliefs?

You are just as free as the rest of us to live your own life the way you want to and it's none of your business how we live our lives or what we do with our own bodies medically. I know it bothers you not having control over others but one thing is for sure, you still have total control over your own life. Ireland is a totally Catholic country and it's a beautiful place, if you want to live somewhere where people are quite literally forced to abide by your moral beliefs under a theocracy then you might consider moving there, but don't think for one moment that while you live in a FREE country that you will ever get to force others to live their lives by your moral code.

 

Don't think either one of us will get an answer.....

 

Tell me this....our nation has never recognized same sex marriage. Why do you think it has never been until the last few years acceptable to some people across the United States and the world? Why?

Why was sodomy once illegal?

Why was abortion illegal at one time? And if we were always secular...then why no same sex marriage? Same sex marriage is only legally recognised nationwide in twelve countries around the world. The first country was Denmark in 1989. So for all of history....there was never same sex marriages..or open relationships. Why? That is amazing....196 countries in the world and only twelve believe in same sex marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_legislation_around_the_world

Why do we even lave laws? I believe laws are there to keep some sort of morality in place. They protect people. Without laws it would be utter chaos. That is the reason our Founders came up with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

You talk about what the government does...that if I want it to reflect my views...that is wrong. Don't you want our laws to reflect what you believe?
The fact is...the country reflects the morals of the people for the most part. One hundred years ago...abortion and same sex marriage and sodomy...and living together before marriage...and out of wedlock mothering was unheard of and considered immoral. The reason...biblical morality.

It is the peoples business how people live their lives. It always has been. Sharia law...might be acceptable in the Middle East...but would you afford your neighbor those rights? No. Well maybe you would I don't know your radically liberal.

As for religious rights..they as we speak are being stripped from us. I could give 100 examples of Christians that were denied the right to religious free speech. Christianity one day will be illegal.

 

And we didn't.....

 

Because people are realizing that religion is one of the primary roots of control and thankfully the time of religious control freaks is coming to an end.

 

Tell me how Christianity has controlled your life. Or Islam can control...Buddah....Judaism...how have any of these forced you into doing something you don't want to do?
In fact you are on this forum...spewing whatever you want...you can bash anything and not fear anything. You have complete freedom...to do whatever you want.

Freaks you call us? Thats so tolerant of you really. LOL Do you have a deep seated...fear of people of faith? LMAO

Funny that the people who scream the loudest are the most intolerant. And those are the humanists...the ones who don't believe in God.

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Who is forcing someone ....denying them an abortion?

With the exception of Pasi...everyone else here who is pro-abortion. They are the ones who are anti-women, anti-choice...and its all based on bias and personal opinion.

 

You claim you always answer questions so why can't you answer the questions bolded above???



"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi

 

"""""""""""Silence is golden and when someone continuously does not answer...that answers the question. """""""""""

 

I will gladly answer your questions when you answer mine first.

 

The only morality laws are supposed to enforce is that of order in society. Some immoral actions cause disorder in society and therefore those actions are illegal. Other immoral actions do not affect society as a whole and so they are left to the individuals' consciences. The Constitution and BofR limit the actions of government. Because of the Constitution and BofR, we have individual rights that government cannot interfere with.

You need to read a little more history. The same immoral actions that plague us today have been around for always.

If your neighbor chooses to follow Sharia law in his own home and life, how does that interfere with your freedom of religion? Freedom of religion either exists for everyone or no one at all.

If you want religious freedom for yourself, you have to grant it to everyone. If you want to keep your right to religious freedom in this country, you have to recognize that everyone else has the same right to religious freedom.....and that means not having government property used in a coercive manner by any one religion.

 

What is funny is that you change my response to suit, tell me where I specify Christianity, I don't I said religion, or are you asserting that only Christianity is a religion.
Religion has tried for centuries to control people, that is all it does by means of the "golden" promise of being allowed into heaven while all others will burn in hell... the classic blackmail of offering something as long as you do as you are told, a reward that can never be confirmed as even existing.

 

So? WHERE are your 100 examples of Christians denied rights to religious free speech????


And now to the even more mind boggling, ridiculous part:

Churchmouse, """"One hundred years ago...abortion and same sex marriage and sodomy...and living together before marriage...and out of wedlock mothering was unheard of and considered immoral. The reason...biblical morality.""""""


(Warning :This is my "Why Don't Anti-Choicers Ever Have Any Knowledge of History" speech )


ALL those things have been around since humans have been around.

They have NEVER been "unheard of".

They have NOT always been considered immoral by all humans.

They have not always been illegal.


Now, PLEASE go read a BOOK on history......real history....Education is a good thing, nothing to fear. Total ignorance of humanity and it's history renders opinions on it invalid.

 

MEN have always made life and death decisions for others even when these others in question are utterly defenseless and vulnerable and cannot give their consent.

War, as only one example, comes immediately to mind.

Why aren't you screaming about laws to stop men from doing EXACTLY what you accuse women of doing?

 

And why aren't you screaming about laws to allow all women free choice concerning their bodies? Why?

 

Here, you claim you ALWAYS answer questions but you must've missed these
one day will be illegal.
So? WHERE are your 100 examples of Christians denied rights to religious free speech????


And now to the even more mind boggling, ridiculous part:

Churchmouse, """"One hundred years ago...abortion and same sex marriage and sodomy...and living together before marriage...and out of wedlock mothering was unheard of and considered immoral. The reason...biblical morality.""""""


(Warning :This is my "Why Don't Anti-Choicers Ever Have Any Knowledge of History" speech )


ALL those things have been around since humans have been around.

They have NEVER been "unheard of".

They have NOT always been considered immoral by all humans.

They have not always been illegal.


Now, PLEASE go read a BOOK on history......real history....Education is a good thing, nothing to fear. Total ignorance of humanity and it's history renders opinions on it invalid.



"""I like your Christ, it's your Christians I do not like, they are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi

 

YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION. WHY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD WAS SAME SEX MARRIAGE NOT THE NORM? WHY IN THE UNITED STATES AT LEAST...SODOMY IMMORAL, ABORTION IMMORAL, NO SAME SEX MARRIAGE...AND YOU WOULD SAY WE WERE NEVER A NATION OF CHRISTIAN VALUES...THAT WE HAVE BEEN SECULAR. SO WHY? ANSWER THE QUESTION.

As for free speech and Christianity. Lets put it this way...when the government controls information....no one is free. If the government can control freedom of speech, we will lose freedom of religion. You want cases...would be happy to point a few out.

More examples from US and around the world...sure.

John Reyes and 150 other college students...held a peaceful pro-life demonstration in front of a high school in Virginia. The school called the police on them. He was later indicted for trespassing and got jail time, which was suspended.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pr...-outside-school-and-held-in-jail-for-24-hours

NO PRAYER...

Verbal prayer offered in a school...is unconstitutional, even if that prayer is voluntary and denominationally neutral.
Engel v. Viatel, 1962
Abinton v. Schempp, 1963
Commissioner of Education v. School Committee of Leyden, 1971

If a student prays over his lunch, it is unconstitutional for him to pray out loud.
Reed v, Van Hoven

When a student addresses an assembly of his peers, he becomes a government representative, it is therefore unconstitutional for that student to engage in prayer.
harris v. Joint School District, 1994

A city council meeting can pray, as long as they don't say the name of Jesus.
Rubin v. City of Burbank, 1999.

NO Bible

In Nebraska a student was prohibited from reading is Bible silently during his free time, or even to open his Bible at school.
Gierke b. Blotzer, 1989

It is unconstitutional for a classroom library to contain books that deal with Christianity, or for a teacher to be seen with a personal copy of the Bible at school.
Roberts v. Madigan 1990

NO CHRISTMAS

A Frederick County, Maryland, school employee was prohibited from handing out Christmas cards on a public school campus.

Red poinsettias were banned from the Ramsey Court House in St. Paul, Minnesota, because they offended one person who believes the flowers to be a symbol of Christianity.

In Worthington Ohio students were prohibited from bringing in Christmas cookies with the colors read and green or in the shapes of flowers or bells.

NO CROSSES

It is unconstitutional for a public cemetery to have a planter in the shape of a cross, for if someone were to view that cross, it could cause emotional distress...and thus constitute an "injury in fact."
Warsaw v. Tehachapi 1990

In June 2004, the LA County Supervisors voted three to two to remove a tiny cross from the official country seal rather than face a potential lawsuit from the ACLU. the cross had been there for 47 years.

MORE......

A receptionist for Jeb Bush's office came under fire for posting at her personal desk a greeting card showing a flag with a cross on it. A lawsuit was filed and though the purpose of the card was to honor those who lost their lives on 9-11...state senator Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D)declared, "To me it's offensive and hurtful."
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012...nally_ignorant_and_politically_tone_deaf.html

"Capital flag under fire over cross" Palm Beach Post, July 23, 2004



In Seattle, a King County official sent out a memo asking county employees not to say “Merry Christmas” and to be “religion neutral.”

In Frederick County, Maryland, a school employee was prohibited from handing out Christmas cards on a public school campus.

Red poinsettias were banned from the Ramsey Court House in St. Paul, Minnesota because they offended one person who believes the flowers are a symbol of Christianity.

A Pennsylvania fourth-grader was stopped from giving Christmas cards to classmates.

Two Minnesota middle-schoolers got in trouble for wearing red and green scarves in a Christmas skit and for ending the skit with a Merry Christmas wish for the audience.
http://www.keepbelieving.com/sermon/2001-12-23-Follow-the-Christmas-Star/

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Google censors Christian ads....and has been known to ban anything opposing homosexuality. They consider any opposition hate speech.

They allow everything you can mention that deals with pornography however.

Today our courts are the best friends of the anti-Christian movement. I heard it once said that...the number one problem in America, would be them men and women in black robes. ....OUT JUDGES.

YOU WANT MORE EXAMPLES?

 

(LOL! I'm right again...when the goddies want to bring god to the abortion table THEY feel perfectly free to do so while out the other side of their mouths (posts) they condemn others for doing it.)



Youtube? Pfffft!

And most of the others, as I glanced through, are because goddies were trying out their stuff in PUBLIC venues.


I doubt any goddy has ever been stopped from praying EXCEPT in public places that belong to EVERYONE..

Or going into a building on Sunday to prove how "holy" they are.

Or reading their Buybulls....or anything else....they must have LOTS of FREEDOM because some of them keep declaring the US is a theocracy, a "christian" nation.



I like youChrist, it's your christians I do not like, they are so UNLIKE your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi