The GREAT WALL of America has begun

That is not a plan.

Please follow along.

 

It's a plan. That you don't agree with it, is inconsequential.

 

This is why the Republican party can't govern.

 

Odd..........who is in power?

 

Unfortunately they are finding ways around them. Working under the table is extremely common. Some work directly for individuals doing things such as landscaping. Many work under bogus SSNs. Sometimes one individual will be legitimate that works for a company, but to complete the job they'll get numerous illegals who they'll pay in cash. Illegals drive up unemployment and drive down wages among the least skilled in our society.

 

This is flatly false and defies common sense. You must have done your research with disingenuous pro-open borders web-sites because this is totally contrary to the law of supply and demand.

"If illegal aliens are willing to work for wages that are much lower than those paid to legal workers, companies will either hire illegal immigrants and pay them much less, or companies will go out of business because they can't compete with those that hire cheap illegal immigrant labor. So illegal immigrants tend to determine the wage and benefit costs in those business sectors where they tend to be a large part of the labor market."

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigrants-and-eu-labor-markets/

 

I can provide you with several economic papers arguing that open borders would be better for the economy. I'm not arguing for entirely open borders, but you are quite wrong about the economic impact.

If aliens are willing to work for wages that are lower, then it still depends on demand. If demand for the roles is high enough, it won't impact the wages of the other workers. Your quote ignores that supply and demand are more complex than only accounting for one factor.

 

"According to the Rutgers Study, less than half of all illegal aliens do anything to work/earn money. Of the 40-odd percent who do work/earn money, more than half work in the underground economy, day labor, odd jobs, etc, and work, on average, less than 3 days per week. The remaining workers, which comes to about 22% of illegal aliens, use false, forged, stolen ID and/or Social Security numbers to get "regular" jobs. Stealing children's identities has become particularly popular since it tends to take a long time to uncover the identity theft, and they are using an SSN which, when checked, appears to be valid."

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100603204729AAlzt96

 

Do you have a link to the actual study?

 

Also, as I produced earlier:

"Every empirical study of illegals’ economic impact demonstrates the opposite: Undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs . . .

85% of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (74%) or neutral (11%) impact on the U.S. economy."

 

You can not dit on you asses and duggest that is governance.

Tell me how Republicans improved health care, made congress more functional as the deliberative body it was designed to be, allowed more citizens to vote (or otherwise improved democracy), resolved immigration issues or whatever.

 

There's a new sheriff in town. We'll go with "if you are not going backwards, that's real progress". This country took a dump under the recent 8 years of Obama-acracy
with regard to health care and immigration. We are building the wall. It's a start.

 

No, it isn't. Try again please.

 

Is there a "plan" for murderers? No. It's illegal and when you're caught you go to jail.

 

No single solution will end the problem and the most expensive option is passing legislation and hoping it works.

 

Yes, it is. I linked to a Wharton (Trump's alma mater) article that cited other academic sources. I posted the link a second time recently in post #1160. Here it is again, for a third time.

"Every empirical study of illegals’ economic impact demonstrates the opposite: Undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs . . .

85% of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (74%) or neutral (11%) impact on the U.S. economy."

 

Absolute nonsense. There is a plan for enforcement and prosecution for murder and other crimes.

We have jurisdiction divided. Each jurisdiction has a budget and plan of attack for investigating crime in that region. Those in charge monitor the plan. From time to time they propose adjustments to their legislators or up the change to elected leadership.

What we see doesn't necessarily look like a new plan, because in most cases it progresses as relatively minor adjustments to the plan of record.

But, the plan of record is both documented and extensive, including budget, staffing, focus, rules of operation, division of responsibility, processes of monitoring for proper conduct and effectiveness (for example, citizen advisory or oversight boards), etc.


As I say, there is no plan for this idea of trying to deport 11m residents.

There are several reasons that making such a plan would be very difficult - politically, financially, humanely, etc.. And, I do NOT mean that it would be hard to deport an individual - we know how to do that. What we have no plan for is for the deportation of any meaningful fraction of the 11m.

 

There is no "plan" for murderers. What are you talking about? On any given day, we have about 2 million active warrants out. We don't throw up our hands and say we can't go after these people unless we have a plan; we already have a legal system and judicial system. With illegals, we have all that plus ICE. You've yet to make a believable case as to why a "plan" for enforcing the law is needed. However we both know it's just an excuse to not enforce the law.

 

You say there is no plan and then you mention elements of the plan!

Our plan for reducing murder in the US does include the systems you mention. And, it includes detectives, a budget, oversight committees, etc.

It's needed, because ICE is not staffed, budgeted, equipped or chartered to do what would be necessary to cause a meaningful reduction in the number of undocumented aliens in the USA.

That is why you don't see them doing that today.

I'm not dumping on ICE. They execute the plan they have been given. They should be praised for contributing one part of the effort to stop the increase in the number of undocumented residents.

I'm going to want to see the justification portion of the plan - that is, what actions, what equipment, what laws, what budget and what benefit justifies that level of effort.

We have alternatives for reducing the costs and increasing the benefits of immigration.

If we're going to spend 10s of billions of dollars, we need to know that what we're doing is justified and is, in fact, our best plan.

 

Do you understand why surveying "eminent" econimists is not a scientific approach?

Who decides what an "eminent" economist is? Who decides which "eminent" econimists are left out of the survey?

I've read hundreds of peer reviewed papers and authored over a dozen myself, I would never offer up percentages in such a way, that's how you get laughed out of the scientific community.

But, it is how you convince the uneducated

 

OK I'll just admit I don't understand your point. You keep talking about a plan and, as if there is no such thing as ICE and no one has ever been deported before. I suspect you have in mind all 11 million out by X date. If you want them all gone in say, 2 years, then that would probably requre a plan. But as long as the numbers of illegals are dropping, I'm good.

 

Any project to remove an embedded population of 11m within, say, a couple administrations would have MAJOR hurdles to figure out - hurdles of budget, the law, the economic importance of that population, humanitarian constraints, etc.

11m is a big number.

If we're going to try to deport any significant fraction of that, we need a plan and we need a justification for the budget it would require.

The thing is, some have long wanted to deport all those who are here without documentation. It's been a real issue. Yet, politicians have not been willing or able to come up with a plan.

 

Wrong.

We've pretty consistently deported about 400,000 people every year. Once you prevent illegals from coming, just those deportation numbers will reduce the number of illegals. That means even Obama deported over 3 million people during his presidency. What was his plan? Now, you may think a "plan" is needed to deport 400,000 illegals a year, but if so, then we just continue to do whatever we've been doing, call it a plan and there you go.

 

It is if what you are trying to study is the opinion of those in the field.

It is bizarre that you think scientific journals never use surveys, and also that you didn't address anything else from the article. I can give you some articles if you'd like to look at them. For the sake of brevity, the following two videos provide an excellent summary of the research (although the first video goes into more than just economics):