The moral failure of this "American" Government

This is not the first time the US has put the international community ahead of the United States. And it won't be the last. But every time it does so, the Founders weep for what could and should have been. The American Revolution was against Great Britain's hegemony and oppressive policies against the colonies. Looking at the American colonies as little more than slave labor to pay for British military costs(among other offenses.)

In 1776, we responded with 'give me liberty or give me death'. In 2023, we respond with 'how far do we bend'. Today, the US is expected to spearhead the 'rules-based INTL order'(that conveniently supports European security), and in the past 48 hours this President has invoked Article 5 of NATO, which in my view represents the sickle of death hanging over the necks of Americans.

Article 5 is the same provision within the League of Nations, that caused the US Congress to veto the Versallies Treaty. Because back then, the idea of being some 'armed officer' to a conflict was sickening. It should still be sickening today.

As long as Article 5 exists, the US will never be free of conflict. And as long as the US is never free of conflict, the US will never be fully able to realize her potential.

We need a strong, viable and independent Europe. We need a Europe that can be a mature and stable partner to the US, and one that doesn't bring war to our doorstep.

Its long been accused that this particular side is 'helping Putin'. If it were, I would not be advocating for this for Europe. The last thing Putin wants is a militarily viable and independent Europe.

And its the best thing Europe needs to grow up. Daddy(the US) is growing old, he can't bankroll the expenses anymore. It's time, young Padawan. Time to venture without our help. Time to show the world that you can be trusted, that you can get this done.

That regardless of how SHTF, you won't be looking over here. You can do it yourself. I believe in you, and it's vital that you believe in yourselves.

For truly strong allies, they need to handle their **** and we have to let them. That is the difference between me and Biden.

 

The American Revolution was against the inevitable banning of slavery sparked by the James Somerset case in London.
Slave owners like George Washington saw the writing on the wall that threatened their lavish lifestyle built on evil and engineered (with the help of France) the American revolution.

 

The 1619 alternative history belongs in the alternative history forum. In actual history, the Colonists tried appealing to the British government and each time, the British rejected our pleas.

 

1619 what is that all about?

What do you know about the James Somerset case and the implications of the judgements in Crown territory?
George Washington was a notorious slave ‘owner’ wasn’t he?

 

Additionally the James Somerset case happened in 1772,
The first ‘Continental Congress’ was in 1774.

 

Well, after the Trump episode, you can rest assured that Europe got the message. The largest countries are ramping up fast their defense budget.

And regarding aid to Ukraine, Europe has now surpassed the US in dollar terms, more specifically from the Baltic and Northern European countries.

But US aid to Ukraine is still currently needed, unless you really want Europe to risk being under Putin's rule. Meanwhile, the US should continue telling Europe that it needs to make sure it becomes independant from the US aid in the future.

Regarding Article 5, you have to consider that it is a longtime US commitment and that it's supposed to work both ways; remember China is a long term threat.

And don't make this a partisan issue; Biden is not "bringing war to our doorstep"; on the contrary, providing Ukraine with the weapons it needs allows it to weaken every day the russian army and the russian economy at NO HUMAN COST FOR THE US*, while the US aid money is mostly being spent on US military industry for a very minor share of our own defense budget.

*Many peoplre in Europe are pointing out how largely the US is benefiting from the Ukraine war, particularly due to the economic sanctions that have severed the majority of russian oil and gas imports to european countries, largely replacing them by imports from the US; these represent billions of dollars, btw.

 

We benefit from the war because of their own incompetence in not diversifying their oil portfolio pre-war? That's not a 'benefit from the war', unlike the GOP I wasn't overly focused if Europe was gonna buy US Oil or not. That was their decision to make and honestly, I would prefer that domestic oil right about now(given high gas prices and the US Strategic oil reserves situation.

Europe "risks being under Putin's rule" but that's not our problem. It's a European problem and it will always be a European problem. There is only one thing that would change the calculus: A direct threat to the US Mainland.

Save that, they're out of luck.

 

I could debate on topic you wrote , but I realized a simple math is where we need to start . 2023 is not 1776.

The world has changed in 247 years. What Founding father thought about US foreign policy no longer apply in 2023.

I know it is hard for you to accept , but welcome to 21st century please.

 

The world has changed, in 1776 a 'collective threat to European Security' would have met a European response(even though they are largely responsible for said threats). In 2023, they pass this responsibility off to us. So today, it's Russia and tomorrow it'll be some other conflict to enforce the INTL rules based order.

WWI, WWII, Russo-Ukraine. I've had enough, it's time they become guardians of their own future.

 

The United States entered World War Two because the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and because it was Germany who declared war on America.
America did not go to war with Germany as a favour to anybody but themselves.
It was great that by doing so it helped Britain and other countries trying to fight Fascism in Europe, but it wasn't being helpful that finally forced America into the second world war, but the actions of Germany.

 

That is revisionist fiction.

Slavery had nothing to do with the causes of the revolutionary war.

The somerset case was coincidental only and unimportant in the colonies

 

Europe didn’t pass the responsibility to defend them to USA. Stop spreading false facts.

US has military hardware and power and Europe has soft power. Both go hand in hand in a war. America uses military power and Europe utilizes economic and diplomatic power.

They teach Aesop’s story in Kindergarten “The Bundle of Sticks”. May be you should read the story before criticizing “Article 5”.

The Short Story "Three Sons and a Bundle of Sticks" — Steemit

 

I am afraid you are wrong.

https://www.ouramericanrevolution.org/index.cfm/page/view/m0149

From a 1984 article by Patricia Bradley

To examine colonial American press coverage of the British court decision to free American slave James Somerset, a studywas conducted to clarify why the decision worked as a victory for British abolitionists but was usually cited even in post-Revolution America in the passage of increasingly oppressive slave legislation. Twenty-three of the thirty-two regularly publishing newspapers of 1772 were selected for survey. The extent of coverage was ascertainedby determining the number of insertions each paper devoted to the story during the trial period and by counting the total number of words given to the story in these insertions. Because of the colonialeditors' tradition of transcribing verbatim British press accounts, completeness of coverage was determined in large part by word count. On a colony by colony basis, it was found that readers in the areas surveyed could be as well informed as readers of most British papers.For example, the "Boston Gazette" provided only 42 words on the story, while its rival, "The Massachusetts Gazette and Boston News-Letter," devoted some 2,700 words to it, including trial coverage and opinion papers. Since the patriotic press saw its duty as inflaming rather than informing the public, the findings suggest that coverage of the Somerset trial manipulated colonial fear of racial equality as a way of providing yet another reason colonists should seek separation from Great Britain.

Nothing to do with the causes of the revolutionary war? Yeah right.

Did George Washington keep slaves and was savvy enough to keep them enslaved?

Read this:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...loopholes-avoid-freeing-his-slaves-180954283/

Washington was a sharp operator and would have been well aware of the writing on the wall because of the James Somerset case.

 

Great squirrel into oblivion historical blathering. Why do posters do this to well meaning and intentioned threads? This is the kind of BS that folks in China push to undermine the national identity of a nation they so fear. This isn't history, this is fantasy snuff cult stuff.

 

The height of American power was that period after WWII where the US was most involved in the rest to the world.

Your ideas of isolationism is what will lead to our downfall. The idea that we can just ignore the rest of the world is silly. Their future is OUR future. If we don't help protect against the rise of authoritarianism then we are the ones who will suffer.

Of course in doing that we have to defend ourselves from our internal rise of authoritarianism in the form of Trumpism.

 

Putin can't even take Ukraine, but he's supposed to be able to roll troops to Paris? How dumb do you think we are? Ukraine is also holding an American hostage, and has been since May, even tortured him for publishing views Zelensky disagrees with. What is another $61B going to accomplish that the $100B didn't. And why should we spend to secure Ukraine's border when sex traffickers, terrorists, fentanyl and illegal labor are pouring over ours?

And "because Ukraine bought the Biden's" is not an acceptable answer.

But I'll play along. Where are you willing to cut $61B so that we can send it to Ukraine?

 

yes nothing

You got this bullshit from the 1619 project as previously noted by others and it is proven revisionist tripe.

Washington was a sharp operator but his motives had nothing to do with protecting slavery from some vague distant threat.

Your entire argument is association not cause and effect. A media story about a case in england is not adequate to spark the war.

You and the left wing woke retards who came up with this idea ignore the fact that the leaders who engineered the revolution explained openly why they commited treason and they never mentioned slavery

This makes your entire claim and the 1618 a lame conspiracy gtheory without a shred of supporting evidence

 

Oh I see they have their talking points all memorized, and we now all know where this leads, to academics and Ivy League Students celebrating the mass rape and murder of defenseless Jews, in their homes, in Israel.

 

This is propaganda from bitter spoiled royals who want their thrones back. 'Freedom created slavery, thats why you need a King again' is the underlying message between the lines here. And frankly its not even all that sophisticated. You can go find someone to rule over you if you want, leave the rest of us out of it. But hey, enjoy eating the free bugs!

 

I must have touched a nerve.

I am afraid I have no idea why you have mentioned the years 1618 and 1619.

'Left wing woke retards' indeed.

Nothing like a bit of random personal abuse to spice things up, you will have to forgive me for resisting returning personal abuse to you but sticking to actual evidence. Much more evidence than a 'shred'.

As for woke, well if you look at the origin of the word, and it's popularisation by Huddie Leadbetter in response to the Scotsboro Boys case, you will see the word simply means being alert to racism and racist attacks, so for that reason may I thank you for labelling me 'woke'? I would go so far as to say those who are anti-woke are in favour of racism like these Americans appear to be.

 

I actually believe Americans fighting for self determination against the British Royals was a good thing to do.
However it is dressed up as some righteous glorious moral crusade, when the answer is much more prosaic, it was about rich Americans keeping their wealth.
As for no taxation without representation, remind me when all men and women in the United States had equal voting rights?

What do you mean by 'free bugs'? It is an Americanism I don't understand.

 

Let me ask you one question: Has the world done anything, even remotely CLOSE for the United States, that the US has done for the world? You know and I know the answer to that is "no". We also both know the US wouldn't ask anything of 'the world'(people will cite the military bases, but again we're basically a Merc state for the Europeans, so it's not a favor.

So this is a one sided relationship, with ZERO benefits to the US and all of the drawbacks to the US. There's no reason for us to continue such an abusive state of affairs.

The height of US power by the way was the combination of an industrial power combined with the lack of industry of the rest of the world. A situation that also doesn't exist today in large part due to the INTL Community and rules based order.

So we're economically screwed as well. But is this any surprise when there are those who care more about Ukraine than the US?


Biden, and by extension those who support Biden believe in his crusade against 'authoritarianism'. But he cannot at the present moment govern over his own democracy, let alone fight against the 'authoritarian' forces. His incompetence knows no bounds, and threatens us with a European theater of war.

 

It was a 'righteous crusade' for autonomy for the vast bulk of them, who didnt own slaves and did all the fighting. That they did so with the support of slaveowners was a necessary evil, and one that was always going to be 'the next hurdle' after victory.

'Represenation' translated to what we call today 'the social contract' or 'consent of the governed.' It wasnt about 'equality' because thats an unachievable goal. Some will always prosper more than others due to differences in individual competence and, unfortunately, due also to luck. The only alternative is a totally centralized and collectivized economy based on authoritative nationalization and redistribution, which isnt meaningfully different from feudalism. And under feudalism, the 'regulatory' (ruling) class gets first pick and everyone else gets what's left. What will be left for us after we save the planet from carbon and cow farts and make everyone equally poor, is bugs.

 

Without the aid of France we lose the revolutionary war.

 

WRONG

You do not have more than a shred

Your took your claim from the revisionist fiction invented by the 1619 project whether you mentioned it or not

Their entire conjecture and YOURS is empty of any evidence whatsoever.

The word woke does not mean being alert to racism it means an ideology devoted to inventing any possible spin or fiction to label everything and anything as racist