The moral failure of this "American" Government

I think what @philosophical is trying to say, when he went to Westminister is that if we stayed in the British Empire and not rebelled then slavery would have ended much sooner than it did here when we were independent. Slavery technically ended by an Act of Parliament in 1834, which would have included the American Colonies if we never won our independence. Furthermore, he is taking "all men are created equal" as literally meaning racial equality from the DCI. These two factors in our history, looked upon by different perspectives, is what the poster is referring to when he said:

 

How does supporting Ukraine to help them keep the Russians from taking ALL of Ukraine weaken our economic and military position?

 

You simply regurgitate a Moscow script that tries to convince the US to become neutered and isolationist so as to avoid containing Russian foreign policy interests. Its lame, its stale, its been done ad infinitum.

Its a script isolationists used many times in the past including to stay out of WW1, WW2.

Your script is classic Putin script.

Изоляционистские сценарии КГБ, которые вы сегодня перерабатываете, так же убоги, как и тогда, когда они были впервые

Referring to wanting the US to isolate and turn inwards has nothing to do with you putting America first-in fact the exact opposite-it would put Russian interests first and the US rendered inoperable from containing Russia.

Lame assed script.

 

In case you do not know how Russian spambotting works the key is to emerse pro Stalin/Putin foreign policy concepts into diatribes posed as an American claiming to be a patriot and putting his nation first. In fact it does nothing of the sort. It proposes Europe turn on the US and ally with Russia. The words are of course embedded. You can though easily find them and the key to them is they stick out like a sore thumb not related in any context to the pretense of justifying America first-its all about trying to get the US out of Nato because as long as the US remains in NATO, Putin can't coerce Europe under his sphere of control.

The references to either Russia or China in regards to the Pacific is a classic give way of Russian spam. Russia not America feels threatened by China. The US militarily is not threatened by China, Russia is. China and Russia have thousands of miles of conflicted borders.

The US knows and we all know at this time China is in competition with the West to control the South Pacific and in that regard is a threat to all kinds of nations who trade with the US and Europe and so in that sense Putin has had to become a puppet of China in the South Pacific to get help in Ukraine but resents this. OOOOPSY how that resentment oozed out. No one in the West sees China and Russia unallied in the South Pacific only a Russian script would.

 

Genuine question, are you okay? You're the first and ONLY person, I have ever seen in the decade or so of participating on this forum of accusing me of being some 'Russian spam bot' or an 'agent of Putin'. This,years after the conclusion of that debacle of an 'investigation' by the federal government, and DOJ investigators.

The Russiagate thing never happened, so much so that if anyone reads between the lines, the investigators infer motive "Putin wanted Trump to win", without so much as a singular point of evidence to that fact. Go look back at Rosenstein's indictments, practically screaming the not-so-secret part out loud about the failure of the investigation.

In addition to still believing in the conspiracy that has no legs(and concocting a conspiracy of even LESS legs of accusing me of being a Russian 'spam bot'), you also show your grotesque ignorance in foreign policy. Ignorance is only bliss, when you don't spew it for others to see.

But let's put some finality on the 'spam bot' nonsense. Do you know what an ISP is? It's called an Internet Service Provider and the data that comes with that, reveals the user's general location. While I would never give you that info, the moderator team certainly does have that information. So the mod team could act, if in fact I were a 'Russian Spam bot' or an 'agent of Putin'.

@Lee S Sorry to disturb you, but you're online at the time of me making this post. Am I a 'spam bot'? Lol. It's beyond silly to ask, but I think it's the only way this conspiracy theorist is satisfied.

That out of the way, educating you on foreign policy will be even simpler. "China isn't a threat to the US". Now if I were someone who thinks like you, I'd call you a Xi bot or something but no, I just think you're clueless. The irony of this statement is that it comes less than 24 hours after THIS happened:

https://thehill.com/opinion/cyberse...frastructure-have-arrived-america-isnt-ready/

So yes, China IS a national security threat to the US, and has been since China A: Systematically abused human rights, B: Withdrew from the free and open markets while exploiting the same, and C: Increasing espionage and other cyber crimes against the US Government.

And as I mentioned before, the rise of a significant power in Asia that is not aligned with the US threatens the Pacific Coast. All the moreso with tacit approval of North Korean nuclear saber rattling. All of these factors makes China an existential threat in that region of the world. Nor can we entirely rule out if biowarfare actually occurred.

Yes, Russia and China share a border and a complicated history, that is pretty much open knowledge. What is open knowledge is that both Russia and China antagonize the US, and both position themselves accordingly. The Russian-Chinese relationship has no baring on the Chinese-US situation, or the Russian-US one.

And if you spent time actually reading what you cherrypicked, I pointed out that the Europeans playing footsies with the US, has already occurred! I am not 'proposing something', it has already happened. The Europeans are in their little hissy fit with Russia over the same territory they've fought over the last 100 or so years. But as I elaborated, China is not going to defend European Security or be a willing participant in the European side of the conflict.

So the EU threw us some bed crumbs and tried to appease us. Said appeasement has worked for Biden, but it hasn't worked for me and other Americans. I need more than bed crumbs from the European Union that it is serious about its own national security.

And from the EU side, it is apparent that they want security for the cheapest possible price and god forbid if they actually have to do it themselves. To be fair, I don't blame them in the sense that we basically gave them their 'rules-based order' for free! I wouldn't want to give up freebies either, and if I did, I'd want a low of a price as possible.

The EU behavior has been set by decades of incompetent behavior by our own government. By allowing the EU to be a freeloader for more than half a century, it has made it impossible to adjust the relationship to anything reasonable.

Also, it's not a 'Pro Stalin' sentiment, it's a fact. By attacking the USSR, NS Germany played itself, but also to a greater extent Europe as it provided the excuse for the liquidation that today, makes the Russian Federation the largest country by land mass.

If that attack doesn't occur, Europe largely stabilizes, and we don't activate our own war production capabilities. These are observable facts that have nothing to do with Joseph Stalin, Putin, Communism or Russia.

This has gone on(with various different bits) since 1914(WWI). Nothing has changed. Except the US as an industrial super power had become Europe's guarantor in the CENTURY long conflict.

The only accurate thing you point out, is in our history many Americans have tried in vain to keep from being Europe's safety net. A position that we've only had in the same time period. You can't find any other example of the US stretching its army for another.

We did not fight alongside France in ANY of the war of coalitions. Not a single one of them. The only time, was the folly that was Vietnam and every Boomer knows full well how that pathetic war went. Fighting for French Colonialism is yet another example of how misguided neocon foreign policy was and is.

But, it's 2024 now and there's two generations of younger adults. Those born in the 90's, the 2000's and in a few years the 2010's. They are sick and tired of a failed foreign policy that not only has not secured peace in our time, but has failed to economically secure these United States.

So everything you said, is an excuse for the European Union that has nothing to offer the US. And before you even think about saying it: Neither does Russia. This is indeed an opportunity for a great reset. Which countries will engage in good faith diplomacy with the US, and which ones won't? Which ones will engage in fairness and which ones will act in an entitlement that was owed to decision makers who in the next few years and decades, won't be making decisions anymore.

 

You can throw a fit all you want the things you believe are stupid and wrong.

 

Well this thread or any other thread about what US should do with Europe / NATO became just some wishful thinking by libertarian and MAGA.

Congress just passed bill, which will prohibit US leaving NATO without two-thirds of the US Senate support.


Protect NATO from Donald Trump? The U.S. Congress just passed that into law | CBC News

Trump-proof NATO? The United States Congress is on it. American lawmakers have moved to prevent any U.S. president from unilaterally withdrawing from the international alliance.

The potentially historic move came in an annual defence-spending bill that just passed the Congress on Thursday, in a largely bipartisan final vote of 310-118.

One tiny section of the massive $886 billion US National Defense Authorization Act includes a string of rules for a NATO withdrawal.

It says no president shall suspend, terminate, denounce or withdraw from NATO without either an act of Congress or the approval of two-thirds of the U.S. Senate.

It also says a president must notify Congress 180 days before undertaking a withdrawal plan, among other conditions spelled out in the bill.

The legislation had already passed the Senate; it was approved Thursday in a final vote in the House of Representatives and is now expected to become law with President Joe Biden's signature.

I never thought I would thank Senator Rubio for anything , but he just saved American alliance with NATO. Now I really don’t care what MAGA thinks about NATO.

 

Well, the US has offered the Natives automatic citizenship as well as autonomy, and the Natives have accepted both options. By all accounts, the US-Native relationship has been resolved amicably.

The only reason Liberals pretend to care about the natives, is like everything else: Living in the past.

There hasn't been a new selling point to the Democrats since 1933, and they govern like it too.

 

This is BLATANTLY unconstitutional. Just as Congress can only declare war, only the executive branch may engage in diplomacy and sign treaties(though those treaties are to be voted on by the Senate.)

This bill(and similar bills like it), turn the US Presidency into a puppet state. At the whims and control of Congress. I think even Biden will veto it. Not because he's against NATO, but even he's not that stupid.

This will forever damage the Presidency.

 

Aren’t those who go on about making America great again also referencing the past too?

 

Congress turned the US into a puppet state sometime back. AUMF, USA Patriot, and other legislative garbage.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but by every metric the 50's-60's had the greatest economic growth in the US and although it was spurred by the .com bubble, so too did the 90's. What did those eras have in common? We nation built at home, domestic quality of life improved and generally low taxes(which Liberals give a false face to, but it's only until you realize big fat government needs its bills paid that the Liberals gave away all pretense)

But at least, by the past, we don't focus so much on the past as it was, but rather what parts worked and replicating those parts. We are not looking for social revision of past conflicts. Again, the Democrats hadn't changed their campaign since 1933.

 

I am not a legal scholar so I will let the expert decide what is constitutional and what is not. 87 senators voted for this bill, so even if Biden veto the bill it will still pass.

But I will come back after Biden sign the bill just to brag about it. I am just happy, seriously happy to see finally we will protect US membership to NATO.

 

“US-Native relationship has been resolved amicably.”

Are we discussing Planet Earth or some other universe?

 

The War Mongers put themselves and their profits first.

 

Kinda like the pharmaceutical industry....

 

Yes. Another group that has some profiteering rat bastards plucking the American Taxpayer like it's their own personal Thanksgiving Turkey.