The Rational Stance On Gender

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by ibshambat, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    I have heard it said that, when someone changes his mind on an issue, he would correct an extreme stance with an extreme opposite stance and a moderate stance with a moderate opposite stance. That is not always the case.

    Based on my experiences in the country of my birth – Russia – I once had an extreme view. I believed that women were better than men. My experiences in America cured me of that error. I did not correct my stance to that of Eminem. Instead I corrected it to a more rational stance – that anything capable of choice, male or female, is capable of both right choices and wrong choices. Neither gender is better or worse than the other. Both are capable of both.

    There have been any number of people who called me a misogynist. I am nothing of the sort. Eminem is a misogynist, as was Osama Bin Laden. Yet I have been attacked more than was Eminem. That is because we have been dealing with different women. An ideology that favors one gender over the other will encourage all sorts of wrongful behavior on one side while oppressing the other side even in its capacity to produce good results. We see that both with men who think that women are evil and with women who think that men are evil.

    When you have impossible standards, nobody will be able to meet them. This is why ancient Greeks became misogynistic. They were expecting from women impossible things. No human woman could live up to the standard that they were setting. As a result of this, the Greeks started to hate women as such and passed on that attitude to posterity.

    In liberal cultures, men are held to an impossible standard, while women are not held to any standard at all. In Middle East, in the ghetto, and in many right-wing communities, it is the opposite. What we see in both cases is two complementary injustices. In one case, the world's worse women viciously abuse the world's better men. In the other case, the world's worse men viciously abuse the world's better women. Both of these justify their behavior by claiming the other gender to be evil. In fact it is they that are the wrongdoers in both cases.

    If you really believe that women are evil, I see no reason why you should be with a woman at all. And if you believe that men are evil, I see no reason why you should either be with a man or have men in your life period. Instead what we see in both cases is a game. The person gets all sorts of good things from their partner or the people of the other gender with whom they interact. And instead of rewarding them accordingly to the benefit that they are getting from them, they instead act like jerks and justify their behavior by claiming the people that they are exploiting to be evil.

    Neither side is anywhere close to being right. The rational stance is that anything human – male or female – is capable of choice. And anything capable of choice is capable of both right choice and wrong choice.

    This is why it is wrong to take sides in the gender war. The gender war encourages everyone involved to be bastards. This creates a wrong set of incentives within society and makes the world ugly for everyone, both women and men. The gender war is not the solution. The gender war is the problem.

    In both cases, the people who get the worst of it are the ones least responsible for either feminism or misogyny. The feminists take it out on men nearest the liberal centers of learning and culture, who are the least misogynistic among men. And the misogynists take it out on women in Middle East, the ghetto or the right-wing communities who have done the least to cause feminism and are, for the most part, much better people than they are themselves.

    If I get called a misogynist – and Eminem is not called such a thing – something is very wrong with the world. What exactly is wrong with the world, in this case, is two complementary injustices. On one side, women who think that men are by nature destructive exploit and abuse men who have goodwill toward women. On the other side, men who think that women are evil exploit and abuse women who have goodwill toward men. In both cases bastardry gets encouraged and rewarded, and goodwill gets one abused. And that, once again, makes the world worse for everyone.

    One possible solution to this situation is to encourage a greater cross-cultural flux for relationships. Allow men of goodwill to get together with women of goodwill and create good relationships and wholesome family life. And create a real-world incentive upon the offending gender in each situation to change their ways, or else see the other gender leave in large numbers to be with people who are willing to treat them right.

    The gender war is not the solution. The gender war is the problem. The solution is incentivizing goodwill. The solution is for men who are willing to be good to women to get together with women who are willing to be good to men. Solve two injustices at the same time. Create better relationships. Disempower two complementary sets of scoundrels.

    Well don't you want a challenge? Don't you want someone who'll keep you on your toes? That is something that they tell girls in wife-beater cultures. Don't you want a challenge? Don't you want a real man? As they say in Australia, be mean keep them keen. I do not believe that that is the right way to treat someone you say you love. Home should be a place of peace, not a place of challenges. I want someone who will be good to me. I am willing to be good to her in return.

    Neither men nor women are good or evil, and neither is better or worse than the other. Anything capable of choice is capable of both right choice and wrong choice. Gender war, on both sides, encourages everyone to make the worst choices that they can possibly make. The leaders on both sides do not see the results of this. All sorts of innocent people do.

    The gender war being the problem, the solution is this: To encourage and incentivize goodwill. It is for men who are willing to treat women right to get together with women who are willing to treat men right. And this will do far more to solve gender-related problems than anything that either side seeks to do.
     
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  2. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You are too boring yawn.
    ..
    Lol, you are better than sedatives to aid sleep !

    And yes, women are indeed superior to men in everyway..
    Deal with it, lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  3. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ты спишь?
    It's not called "Gender War". It is called "Gender Equality".
     
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  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Other than Caitlyn Jenner I don't think there is any woman whose sperm count is superior or mine.
     
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  5. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Can you say this in fewer words. I find what you say interesting but your posts are soooo long
     
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  6. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    I am encouraging a large cross-cultural flux for intermarriage, so that men in places where men are good to women and women are bad to men get together with women in places where women are good to men and men are bad to women. That way they will create better relationships than they stand to have at home, and the men who are not willing to be good to women and women who are not willing to be good to men have to improve their attitude.
     
  7. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Go to Russia and do it there.
     
  8. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    I've gone to Australia and done it there.
     
  9. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    How?
     
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  10. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    Well, I married an Australian woman, and we had a kid.

    She is not with me any more, but we have maintained a good friendship. While we were at it, there were many folks from the Father's Lobby who kept attacking us both because she left an Australian man to be with me and because she exposed some corrupt practices in courts affecting mostly the women. They expected her to leave me and they expected that I would join them after that; but I took a different route. These people appeared to be of the opinion that if a woman leaves a man he should destroy her. I showed that that was not the case.

    Once again, what she did for women is far greater than what most feminists do, and I supported her in that. So please stop calling me a misogynist.
     
  11. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You were called a massage-on-ist ?
     
  12. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a contradiction here , if she did a lot for women, why is she not a feminist? A feminist is the one who believes in equal rights for women. What has she done far more than the feminist movement? Sounds like perhaps she profited from the movement that you seem to diminish.How many other men has she been with? Sounds like she might have some issues.
     
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  13. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed.
    They both have or had issues..
    Back issues even...
     
  14. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    Please do not make hasty conclusions about people you know nothing about.

    What she found when she saw corruption in family courts was that feminists were doing nothing to address it. They cared mostly about one another as women who were into careers and were not likely to form close relationships with men. Many of these women saw women who preferred to be with men as "breeders" and suchlike and were either not interested in helping them or saw them as a lower form of life.

    I knew from the start that Third Wave feminism was destructive, and the behavior of people like you buttresses that claim. You do nothing at all to help women who actually need it. At which point the task falls to the kind of people you like to demonize.
     
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Equality of gender is not the same thing as being treated with equality.

    Men are different than women and visa versa.

    In a general sense, women are better at some things and men are better at others.

    There are smart, evil, good, and bad in both.
     
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  16. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    That is absolutely correct.
     
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  17. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    [

    Feminists weren’t doing anything about family court? I cannot believe you could be so ill informed not to know what feminists have done in family court. Before the feminist movement men got away with not paying child support or alimony , Husbands could rape their wives, divorce was near Impossible for women etc. wow you have chutzpah to say you’re not a misogynist,,,and an uneducated one as well! And to say something so stupid as I do nothing to help women who need help is just projecting your evil thought onto me. I work with women who need help, I give workshops , I give money etc and it’s men like you who are the roadblocks
    Do you realize how silly you sound when you are indignant that I say things about youthat I know nothing about,? But yet you can draw inane conclusions about me,
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  18. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    The nutty way this issue has been handled historically has been developed by all and needs to be so repaired.
     
  19. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    like what?
     
  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Women have vaginas. That's a plus.
     
  21. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    The fact that many Liberals believe that half Humankind are inferior makes these Liberals greatest evil since WWII. That is why for all his faults President Trump deserves support from every sane man and every decent woman.

    Hopefully there are Liberals and Feminists who believe in equality and would shun supremacists and their male enablers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  22. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I am also from Russian Federation, USSR. I am from St. Petersburg.

    In 1983, our family was one of the few to emigrate and we came to USA.
     
  23. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And now I have coffee all over my monitor.
     
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  24. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Gender equality? How is that different from the equality of the sexes?

    Equality between the male and female genders exists. Equality between real and made up genders do not. Third gender, gender fluidly, and gender non conforming aren't genders.
     
  25. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Since 1996, I have been slandered more times then I can remember -- just for asking for Equality and Fairness.
     

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