The Rational Stance On Gender

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by ibshambat, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    What is your message, that I am a misogynist?
    A misogynist would not have written extensive love poetry for several different women.
    A misogynist would not have sacrificed a very nice setup in order to move across the ocean to be with a woman he loved.
    A misogynist would not have incurred danger, financial loss and damage to reputation as part of an effort to expose court corruption affecting women.
    What I say about Third Wave feminism is based in experience - my own and that of many others. I am talking about people like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon. I am talking about women who attack other women because they are nicer and prettier than they are themselves. I am talking about women who say such things as that love is a patriarchial racket or that beauty is a patriarchial institution that destroys women's self-esteem.
    If you do not do such things, then maybe you are better than these women. However I have seen you being very insistent about calling me a misogynist when I'm no such thing. For that reason, so far, your behavior is consistent with the stereotypes that many people have of feminism.
     
  2. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Any misogynist can write beautiful poetry. A bigot could write about racial equality. A misogynist can do a lot of things for the woman he loves
    A misogynist is a man who blames strong women and accuses them of attacking women because they are “nicer or prettier.” Only a misogynist could say something that ridiculous. A misogynist singles out people like Andrea Dworkin as representing women’s rights. It would be like me singling out the KKK and saying they represent Christians .
    My field is prejudice awareness and I am telling you in no uncertain terms, You are filled with gender hatred. I have a feeling you were hurt deeply by this woman and now transfer all this bile on to others
     
  3. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    I do not know what you mean by strong women. Once again, attitude is not the same thing as strength. My grandmother was a genuinely strong woman, and she did not act this way.

    I have evoked hateful responses both in feminists and in actual misogynists. What this tells me is that I am a moderate in a debate that is dominated by hateful extremists on both sides. I most certainly do not have hatred for women as such. There are many women - including genuinely strong and successful women - whom I hold in a very high esteem.

    As for the woman in question, we remain good friends. She is now married to an older liberal man who loves her. As for being hurt, no, that was a long time before that and not by partners in a relationship. I have been fortunate to have had some wonderful relationship partners. And any number of them know everything there is to know about female jealousy.

    Since you say that your field is prejudice awareness, I would recommend that you look at your own prejudices as well. What I have seen is a subset-superset fallacy. Disliking some women does not mean disliking all women. Similarly you are not made a misandrist if you dislike the Ayatollah. I dislike some women. I do not dislike all of them.

    I have the same approach with men.

    I believe that this is the true meaning of equality.
     
  4. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Lumping feminists as people who dislike pretty women and are vicious is so bigoted, and that’s the worst kind of prejudice,,,the one we don’t even see. You see yourself as a moderate and I see you as an extremist
    How did your strong grandmother act?
    My bumper sticker says, “well behaved women seldom make history “
     
  5. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    My grandmother did PhD level work in mathematics, but she was denied a PhD because she was Jewish. She became a mathematics teacher and was very good at it. She also was strongly committed to the family, and she taught me writing and numbers since I was 3. She was a Communist, but that did not keep her from having the virtues that Western conservatives claim to have - hard work, responsibility and pride in family.

    Regarding the bumper sticker, that is also frequently the case for the men. Many men who've made history would be described today as narcissists and sociopaths, yet without their contributions we would have very little of what we have.
     
  6. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    Those who have avoided or overcome brainwashing, obviously. And how do you tell them? They do not agree with your masters but think for themselves.
     
  7. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Where was she denied a PhD?
     
  8. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Again with the naive answers. Perhaps many think you are the brainwashed...how do they tell you? Who are these masters?
     
  9. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    In the Soviet Union.
     
  10. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    What year did She come to this country?
     
  11. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    She came to America in 1991 or 1992. She was quite old at that time and also in an almost catatonic state. They found her the right medication, and she ended up living another close to 20 years.
     
  12. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    Ask yourself, child, who exactly brainwashed me, and how. Thereafter, stop quacking like a drunken duck.
     
  13. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Whoever feeds you your utopia, son ....,the Rodney king philosophy. I know you have all the answers,,,,but in truth, I really do! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  14. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    More like Anachronistic Dystopian Anarchist Luddite farie story fantasies.
     
  15. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    Not being an American, kid, I do not believe in Utopia.
     
  16. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Neither was Thomas More an American , sweetie pie
     
  17. Ned Lud

    Ned Lud Banned

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    No - the lucky bugger at least avoided that! :)
     

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