The United States is and must remain free from any influence.

Every nation has a story to tell, a creed it lives up to. This motto is the bane and bone of a country's existence, and when that motto is broken, that is when a country is truly dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum

This in my view is our true national anthem, it calls to the spirit of every American and the belief in the American Experience. The July 4th holiday is called 'Independence Day', because that is what we fought for. It was a battle, not merely against Great Britain, but a battle that continues to this day, against those who try to influence the United States to their own bidding and selfish interests.

Today, that is Europe once again.(Yes, another anti-EU post.). Europe, for the third time in 100 years is asking America to commit to her defense. She is doing so, bringing absolutely nothing to the US for the trouble.

We're expected to do it, out of the kindness of our hearts. If an American dies, no one cares. But if a European dies, perish the thought!

The interesting thing is, is as late as 2013 I was actually staunchly pro-EU and pro-Europe

So what changed in 9 years to make me anti-EU? What did the European Union do to unravel decades of alliance, and make it so that even those radical racists would now today, turn their collective thumbs at the EU? What is the cause of this massive diplomatic setback for Europe?

Well, we should actually start the story at President Obama, and his Defense Secretary Gates. Who warned the EU of the collective spending agreement, and the need to actually uphold it. The EU wanted no part of this.

Then Trump came and was more abrupt about it, and with no options at the time, the EU decided to actually uphold their promise, albeit within years and possibly over a decade.
This is passively a small win, though not one that was necessarily gratifying.

One look at this is a maddening boiling situation, but what was even worse is that while the Europeans could enjoy their high quality of life, we had to fund their defense.

They had free college, free health care and higher standards of living. We had nothing but a high priced military and for what?

So surely, we'd get equitable and free trade from Europe after all right? I mean, we're funding their defense and arming at their expense so it should only be fair right?

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html

The issue here is simple, the more of a 'merchant' economy we are, we cannot expand internationally into these markets. Which makes us even more of a merchant and the more we rely on imported goods to make up production line costs.

Now imagine doing that for EVERY world power in existence? And finally, the bane of the existence of every unrepentant beggar: A lack of any decency and modesty.

More, more and more is the grand name of the EU long game. They want us to commit more to the European Cause and it is only when they think we might not that they THEN decide to have the epiphany that maybe they should care about their own cause.

This lack of modesty, the lack of will of even making it remotely bearable for Americans is simply because they rightly deduce that under present conditions they won't have to.

This behavior, over 9 years but really over the history of the modern era as we know it is unacceptable, a betrayal of the alliance and a betrayal of our values.

And I have to put romantic love aside, and do/argue what is best for the country: The EU, at present is unreliable to the US and has failed to make reasonable concessions that would make mutual agreement easy to pursue.

Until these extensive issues are remedied, I do not see the value in militarily defending Europe.

 

Can't really disagree with you. This definitely hasn't been an equal partnership. Europe is reaping all the benefits while barely contributing.

But, in all honesty, I can't put all the blame on Europe. We have people who think we should be the worlds police. That in order to stay "top dog" then we MUST be a global power where others must bow to our wishes, all so we can get good trade deals across the world... oh and democracy of course. Can't forget pushing that on everyone also! Never mind that us pushing Democracy on others have started wars and disrupted entire regions of stable governments.

Like I've said before, if I was President I would withdraw our troops from every country in the world and leaving only enough out in other countries to staff embassies. With the exception of S. Korea. Though I would push them to start defending their own country and eventually pull out of there also, and warn N. Korea that if they were to ever invade S. Korea then the biggest bombs we have short of a nuke would be released on their capitol in its entirety. Then the next biggest city if they don't withdraw from their invasion immediately thereafter. Then the next, and the next, and the next. And not once would a soldier have to touch boots to ground. Then I'd put out a warning to the rest of the world. F with the US or any of its allies and we're not going over there to fight ourselves, we'll just carpet bomb your country until you leave our allies alone. Funny thing about intercontinental missiles....they don't HAVE to carry nuclear payloads. They can carry other things that are destructive also.

 

Outsourcing all our IT jobs to India is a national security risk

we are giving another country much control over our own

 

Yet another isolationist thread? Ok, I'll bite since it is something so much on your mind. It might be worth pointing out that your post is a little bit unclear and lacking in specificity and comes across as a bit of a rant. So it's hard to coherently reply to it.

From where I'm standing the EU has not been pulling its weight in terms of monetary % commitments to military. I think Trump did well to point that out. They seem to have stepped up recently.

I guess it's hard to tell if the US was attacked would Europe and your other allies come to your aid? I'm guessing they would. Australia just formed an alliance with the UK and US which will see a lot of money in your pockets for nuclear submarines. Also if anything goes wrong in the south China Sea we will be there. Australian allies and allies from all around the always support you when you start a war, even when we disagree with the war. Maybe you disagreed with those wars too. But the point is we were there.

I think the beef that some Americans have is that they have lost the edge with cutting good deals to the US advantage.

 

This is terribly unclear. What on earth do you mean. Be SPECIFIC

Again this is very unclear. I don't think a balance sheet says much. Perhaps the US is not being competitive? any evidence that they are being shut out? Any analysis of what's going on? Is it really part of a conspiracy or has the US handed over its production to cheaper labour around the world due to your free market corporatization? You claim that this is the result of some deliberate policy of the European union and not being fair. Prove it!

See comments above.

 

Not isolationist at all. Just tired of being the worlds police. We can still get good trades without being the worlds police. In fact our imperialist ways has become a detriment to trade deals, as you note, we don't have an edge with cutting good deals to the US advantage. And its not near as much about "getting good trades" as much as its about how we have declined in almost every measure in quality of life because we're too busy being the worlds police rather than focusing on what's best for our citizens.

Maybe "declined" isn't the right word. Perhaps it'd be better to say that we haven't advanced in those measures like our European counterparts have been able to thanks to them relying on us almost entirely for their defense.

 

Nobody forces the US to be the world police. Nobody forces the US to be a superpower. Nobody forces the US to spend as much on military as the next 20 biggest spenders combined. But, find ONE politician from the Trump party who would be okay with cutting military spending, just ONE. No, when Trump had the WH and all of Congress, despite all the isolationist talk, he happily increased military spending further:


Now, under Obama, military spending actually decreased, but then, he was labeled as "weak" by the usual pundits.

 

Yes .. Obama was a major war monger like the rest .. but, the "Weak" label is because he was not neocon enough !! .. "More War Good" -- "Less War Bad"

I thought Obama did a fine job of directing US assets and resources towards the Military Industrial complex Lobby desires.. did a fine job catering to the Pharma lobby desires as well while on the topic of "Influence" -- of course Biden hit the Pharma ball out of the park during the Covid Crisis .. a crisis in Essential Liberty and of the Constitutional Republic and founding principles .. as opposed to the Capital Protest .. not a Section 3 insurrection by any stretch of the 3rd world Kangaroo tail.

Russia on the other hand .. has almost no influence .. contrary to the Prog Blue Cancel Crew lie that took our Gov't out of action for 4 years. In fact one might call Russia's influence as negative influence .. which is a strange concept but, these are strange Orwellian times .. doublespeak and lies.

 

As President Biden said, NATO will defend every inch of NATO

End of the story.

 

Your premise that the United States IS free from any influence is false. Your post does not defend this premise but just takes it as a given to argue.... I'm not sure what... but it seems to have to do with the rest of the world doing what WE want them to do.

It leads you to make absurd statements such as...

To believe that we fought against Hitler to protect Europe is beyond absurd. We fought against Hitler to protect OURSELVES. I don't even know how to qualify the belief that if Hitler had taken over Europe and Russia, he would have stopped there. We went into war to protect OURSELVES.

We send money to Ukraine because, if we don't, we'll have to send our KIDS to fight in Europe because, if we don't, we'll have to fight against Putin HERE.

Amazing that even at this point you believe that the ocean will spare us from expansionist dictators. It won't!

That is beyond naive. NONE of the wars in Europe we have participated in have been "out of the kindness of our heart". What kind of "kindness" is it to protect us by saying "we put the money, and you put the dead"?

I don't think you are understanding how the world works.

 

Ok...and? You said nothing that I don't already know about. Yet I still said what I said. I'll give kudos to Obama for reducing spending, curse him for starting all the wars he did. And for Trump I'll give him kudos for not starting any new wars, and curse him for increasing military spending.

And yes, I know no one is "forcing" the US into all these wars. Still doesn't change what I said. I even defended Europe in post #2 when I said "But, in all honesty, I can't put all the blame on Europe. We have people who think we should be the worlds police."

The US has been involved in one war or another for almost its entire history. If you look at our entire history you could maybe find 20 years in total in which we weren't in some war or another. And we need to stop. LINK: List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia

 

Personally, I don't see the need for defending Europe and many other countries anymore.

The problem, as I see it, is too many Americans - most particularly in leadership positions - are stuck in the past. In the immediate aftermath of WWII, we could rationalize a need to defend Europe and many other countries. Much of the industrialized world lay in ruins, and many of our friends and allies overseas were incapable of defending themselves against the likes of an aggressive Soviet Union. With that in mind, we had an interest in playing a lead role in the defense of those countries until they could rebuild their countries, economies and militaries. In the meantime, we enjoyed the benefits that came with this arrangement - the Golden Age of the 1950s and early 60s - when we were the economic engine of the Free World and enjoyed little competition in the global economy. Not only did we enjoy a brief period of unprecedented prosperity, this prosperity enabled us to enact the massive social welfare programs (War on Poverty, Great Society, etc.) that laid the foundation of America's welfare state. Money was aplenty, and thus there was plenty to spread around.

That was 60-70 years ago. Times have changed, but many people's minds haven't. They still think and act like it's still the 1950s and 60s. They still think and act like our friends and former WWII adversaries haven't rebuilt their countries and economies. They still think and act like it's the Golden Age when we had little to no competition from the industrialized and developing nations around the world, that we're flush with cash and can afford to spend it with no restraint. Now, we're (reading the National Debt Clock) over $34 trillion in debt and have a crushing $212.2 trillion in unfunded liabilities. In addition to that, our federal government and welfare state are larger and more expensive than ever. America's Golden Age ended decades ago, but many people still think and act, i.e., spend, like it never ended and never will.

Bottom line, many Americans are living in a fantasy world that no longer exists. It's way past time they woke up and faced reality, and the reality is this: we are no longer living in the Golden Age of the 1950s and 60s. We no longer need to play an outsized role in the defense of other nations - they have rebuilt their countries and economies and they have the human and material means to defend themselves. We no longer need to expend our own blood and treasure for them. It's time they stepped up and assumed their proper places and roles in the emerging multipolar world and power dynamics of the 21st Century. Conversely, it's time we stepped down from our post WWII/Cold War Era role as one of the world's superpowers and reassumed a more limited place and role in the new multipolar world, such as those that existed prior to the internationalist Roosevelt and Wilson Administrations that put us on the path we are now standing on. We also have to break the outdated mindset and bad spending habits we have developed here at home and get our economic and financial house in order, and hopefully focusing on our own problems in America instead of everybody's problems around the world will help us do that.

The current situation is unsustainable, and quite frankly there's no longer any reason why is should be sustained. Of we look to History we will find many an empire and nation that overextended itself, didn't have the good sense to remedy that problem while they had the chance, and wound up collapsing. We don't have to repeat their mistakes, but if we're going to avoid repeating them we must act NOW. If we act now perhaps it won't be too late for us.

It's going to be a process, and it's not going to be easy or painless, but the first step is going to require changing the way we think, and the first step in changing how we think is getting people to acknowledge that we have a problem. Once we face and acknowledge the problem we can set our minds on fixing it.

Baby steps.

Kudos to you on this thread.

 

The debt is going to become quite an issue this year. Debt notes sold 10 years ago, at much cheaper borrowing rates, come due this year, and will need to be rolled over at much higher rates.

Same with 5 year and 3 year notes previous sold that come due, plus we'll add over a $Trillion in new debt, this year. Bottom line, someone is going to need to purchase $10T in debt this year, to fund the $9T of past debt notes coming due and the new debt being added.

A Record $10 Trillion In US Treasuries Coming To Market In 2024

'Someone will need to buy more than $10 trillion in US government bonds in 2024. That is more than one-third of US government debt outstanding. And more than one-third of US GDP...'

https://archive.ph/hyHlt

 

Well said..

 

Nah, the USDD will solve all that! Just add all the zero's needed to balance/finance the U.S. scamconomy

 

Sure! Need more time? Make the minutes in the hour smaller so that you have more minutes!

 

No you're getting with the program

 

We used to have a president that realized that and you used to even claim that you supported that president.

 

4 years and Trump did nothing to stop foreign outsourcing to India

 

....

 

Not 100% true.

"President Donald J. Trump and his Administration are protecting American workers by reforming requirements governing the H-1B visa program."
White House archives

 

We don’t need to defend Europe because they aren’t under attack and no one threatens them.

And besides, NATO should have been dissolved after the fall of the USSR and we should have made friends with Russia, rather than made them enemies for the benefit of the MIC.

 

that boat has passed, foreign outsourcing is not the issue

 

smh

And then there's this wonderful bit of news:

US debt interest payments surge past $1 trillion yearly pace, worsening concerns about massive borrowing

Let that sink in a moment - that's $1 trillion a year on the interest alone.

 

You want Free healthcare , free education like Europe? I am so , so happy that a libertarian wants European style socialized medicine, socialized education. You are right those do make “higher standard of living”. Welcome to liberal side. we welcome any one convert from conservatism to liberalism.

Let’s do it, Let’s put higher tax like Europe do and make American life better.