The Violence of the Capitalism. How to fight it?

kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

I have found an interesting article about the violence of this system, the capitalist system. Therefore I've decided to translate it from Spanish to English. The original text is found in the communitary website of the Spanish newspaper "El PAÍS". The original is called: "La Violencia del capitalismo. ¿Cómo combatirla?

I think that this text is useful to justify my position about many things, and explains why I say that the system itself applies the violence and the aggression against the people, and even from this does not save itself the Libertarianism.

The violence of capitalism. How to fight it?
Written by : sarkan on November 22, 2012

I beg the reader 's pardon for intruding on the land of violence, which, as I say in advance, is beyond my knowledge . However, I want to bring it up to share some ideas. As always, my intention is to reflect on the proposed topic, never pontificating and lecturing, and if anyone is encouraged to be opened an interesting debate .

We live times really hard, in which liberalism, neoliberalism rather, is unmasked and shown how it always has been : Dictatorship of the capital. Ulrich Beck, in an article called Freedom or Capitalism . The uncertain future of work published in El País 24.11.2011, explains perfectly as " in the future we will have to face the opposition of ' freedom or capitalism ' " ( click here ) . That future may already have arrived. But no dictatorship is sustained "for any reason", all dictatorships are consistently maintained through the exercise of violence . I will try to explain what is the violence exercised by the system . If the violence is practised by the system, no one will be responsible of that violence. What Ulrich Beck explains on risk, with violence happens, too: It works, to say so, in the absence of oneself. One acts fisically without morally and politically acting. The generalized other (system ) acts on one through one : this is the moral of a civilization of slaves, as if one was socially and personally under a natural fate, under the "law of gravity" of the system(see Risk Society ) . This post is written from the perspective of the Spanish state, but I think it would apply with the necessary corrections to any Western state .

1. - Definition of violence.

I try to find some writing that exposes a definition of violence, find a document called " Violent Worlds " ( click here ), which is defined as follows: " The action that is a factor prevail through the direct use of physical force or any other means which indirectly refers to it . " ( P. 2)

It served me as a starting point, but it is incomplete . For the purpose that concerns me, trying to decipher the violence of the capitalist system, I used the fact that speaks of " action that tries to make a prevailing factor " in this case capital accumulation by a few (the economic and financial elite) and the exploitation-pillaging of everyone else . But I find it incomplete by making only use of physical force or other means that references it. It is not " just" physical force which uses capitalism, neither the resource of it, but rather exerts psychological violence through fear to various consequences if people does not act in a certain way that are not precisely direct physic violence. The fear of unemployment, fear to the end of free healthcare, the fear of losing the savings of a lifetime, the fear of losing housing, fear of terrorist attacks ... THE FEAR . This fear is certainly a subtle but brutal violence, the sufferer does not act freely but also is forced to live in a permanent state of tension, stress . What causes this system is terrorism . Terrorism seeks to provoke people a state of constant fear . From this point of view, the capitalist system has been a complete success .

But violence is not limited to fear, has other more tangible manifestations : violence is be left without healthcare to a group of people (in Spain has begun by immigrants undocumented); is violence cut on healthcare and privatize it when this will cut life expectancy, is violence leave children without proper education, that in Spain there is a large deficit in reading comprehension, a fact reported in Pisa, which means create people that cannot freely take decisions in the future; is violence encouraging a system in which all us are economically linked to banks, to keep our savings, or indebted for life to gain access to housing, to collect wages, pensions, social benefits, to make any payment; is violence when is not given justice to victims of tricks the benefit of swindlers, belonging to financial institutions, by government order, in the words of General Attorney, and nevertheless the condemned leaders of financial institutions were pardoned and most were not even judged, etc.

As if this were not enough, there is also physical violence . The state has a monopoly on violence, and started attending the exercise of physical violence indiscriminately against all those who dare to take to the streets to protest against the earlier mentioned forms of violence . But it is not the only type of violence that the state performs illegitimate, we also have : a) tortures and abuses of detainees like immigrants and members of the terrorist group ETA, when, in addition, the state or even investigate such abuses, proven in many cases, so it has won an order for the ECHR, b ) violence exercised when the victims, the most disadvantaged in society, are evicted from their house, banks requested the eviction and police goes for you if you do not want to voluntarily leave the evicted house, these do use of violence, c ) physical violence is exercised when taxes are coercively collected to deliver massive amounts to financial institutions, while poverty and social exclusion increases, with scenes of children going to eat at community kitchen of Mensajeros de la Paz or a 20% of children are going to school without eating breakfast at home mostly because the refrigerators are empty; d ) violence is exercised when reforming the penal code, or threatens to do so, to increase the penalties for people demonstrate against the system, even if it is passive resistance, however the " caste politics" emerges unscathed and again of its corruptions, etc.
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Hoosier8 · Nov 22, 2012

At least the author is honest and in his first sentence claims he doesn't know what he is talking about.

kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

Continuation

2. How violence is exercised by the system.

Johan Galtung introduced the concept of the Triangle of violence . Violence is like an iceberg where only the tip would be visible, direct violence . But there are two other types of violence, cultural violence and structural violence . Like this:

1. Direct violence, which is visible, in concrete behaviours and respond to acts of violence.

2. Structural violence ( the worst of the three ), which focuses on the set of structures that do not allow meeting the specific needs and precisely in the denial of the needs.

3. Cultural violence, which creates a framework that legitimises violence and it is based on attitudes . Educating in the conflict involves acting in all three types of violence

Direct violence.
The system exerts direct violence across the state. This is not exclusive to the "democratic" systems . But in these systems, under the rule of law, is where, theoretically, makes more sense that the state has a monopoly on violence . In representative democracy, power emanates from the people and is exercised by elected representatives, the separation of powers prevents abuses in all areas, also in the exercise of violence . There are two ways in which the state has the monopoly of violence : the first through security: police, army, and the CNI(the Spanish CIA); and secondly, by applying the right to punish ( punitive law ) through the judicial and disciplinary powers of the administration.

What I said above was theoretical, since in practice it is not so. To begin the Western capitalist system is based on the premise that states are democratic and yet the vast majority would not pass an "audit " of democracy . The State goes too far, it exceeds always against the majority of the population, leaving unscathed, in the vast majority of cases the economic-financial elite and the " caste politics" . I will not elaborate on a few examples and after reading the previous section the reader will quickly get the idea, but there we are: - The state goes too far when police brutally assaults citizens that only are demonstrating and " camouflaged " police are the ones start the loads, this violence is implicit that there is no responsible for such actions ; - is exceeded in the use of violence in the evictions to the most disadvantaged - violence is torture and it's no investigation, etc.

Structural violence.
Structural violence is that exercised by the system, at all. The violence of “the moral of civilization of slaves” as he calls Beck, quoted at the beginning of this article . Who exercises the violence? The state? Yes, but through a multitude of persons acting on its behalf (professors, teachers, doctors and other healthcare personnel, judges and the administration of justice, tax officials, etc .), Politicians who vote in favour of insurance laws that have not read but the party tells them to vote, citizens who vote party full of corrupts, wasteful politicians, etc. . And outside of the State, in its broadest sense, as the exercise also those small entrepreneurs that hire “undocumented”foreign workers or pollute the environment; it is exerted by that workers of financial institutions when they force to sign with their finger to customers, it is practised by those who see immigrants as illegitimate healthcare, education or social rights consumers; those which are indifferent to poverty, those who are more concerned of their football team not goes to bankruptcy, however their big debt to Treasury and social Security that the fact that their neighbour 's son goes to school without breakfast or a communitarian kitchen, those who prey on the desperation of a mortgaged to buy cheaper, etc . The entire system exerts violence.

In this type of violence in the capitalist system seeks capital pretends the increase of capital by the elite at the expense of the needs of the vast majority of the population, even bypassing the small and middle bourgeoisie . The disappearance of the middle class, also looted by the capital, is a fact. The manifestations of violence are wide, from 20% of children who go to school without eating in soup kitchens or younger ; any legislation relating to mortgages and evictions ; scammed by preferences, the impunity with which banks act to raise and lower commissions at will and collect them when they please and helplessness of general consumers against large corporations for the obstacles that exist to claim their rights, tax increases so that the owners financial institutions do not lose money, the cuts in healthcare, the bad and deteriorating quality of education at all levels, the cuts in the rights of workers bringing them closer to slavery, hiring illegal aliens by unscrupulous employers, the total abandonment to handicapped people, environmental pollution, threats of relocation of companies if there are not wage cuts, pension cuts, privatization of health and education ; hinder access to justice through rates that many citizens can not afford; etc.

Cultural violence
Cultural violence is the most subtle. Develop cultural violence of capitalism require a thesis in itself, which, incidentally, would be a very interesting job . All ideological conglomerate of capitalism justifies all previous previous manifestations of violence . Briefly try, and I hope not too awkwardly approach to the subject . I'm not going to address all manifestations of cultural violence, I do not pretend to be very comprehensive, but to show how the ideological scaffolding that if there is violent in itself, it creates the basis for the manifestations of direct or structural violence become justified or pass like “necessary collateral damages.”

I recognize that the capitalist system since its inception there are three fundamental ideas that ideologically justify violence : - Liberal individualism(today in USA it is called Libertarianism); - social Darwinism, - and maximum benefit . The combination of the three is summed up in the phrase Kürnberger, that Webber collects in The Spirit of Capitalism and the Protestant Ethic: “from cows butter is made and from individuals the money.”

Liberal individualism put the individual ahead of any primordial collective aspect . It endowed him with all the rights and established that social relations were only interested relationships . If the individual is acting collectively is because it reports him more benefit than having to behave alone. In economy meant that economic relations happen in the market and individuals act freely on an equal footing, seeking their own benefit . Hence there the rejection of state intervention in the economy and its critical flag is deregulation, liberalization and privatization.

Social Darwinism is to apply the theory of Darwinian evolution to society, based on the slogan of Herbert Spencer, "survival of the fittest " . If in nature the fittest survive, in the society is the same, the fittest are those who succeed . With these ideas are justified, and is justified even today although no longer is being called social Darwinism, the excesses of economic liberalism and its social inequalities . J. abbreviation Rockefeller described it:

“The growth of a large business is merely the survival of the fittest ... The American Beauty rose only can achieve its maximum beauty and perfume that we love, if we sacrifice other buds that grow around it. This is not an unhealthy trend in the world of business. But only the expression of a law of nature and a law of God”.

It is even not necessary to comment!

Finally, the maximum individual motivation is the pursuit of maximum profit. The pursuit of maximum profit and capital accumulation are the “leitmotiv” in the capitalist system. To do this, everything, absolutely everything, is okay. If is necessary to pollute, then it becomes polluted, whether to exploit the workers, they are exploited; if it's necessary to corrupt politicians, then they are corrupted ... Anything goes and everything is justified to get the maximum benefit.

These three ideas have survived over time, may have been amended, may be corrected, that the terminology has changed by the grace of neo - language, but the essence of the ideas is there, are memes in the West have deeply rooted . And the argument of "I am master of my fate (individualism ) my goal in life is to be rich (search for maximum profit and capital accumulation ) and if I fail I am a failure ( social Darwinism ) ", is very much alive in this day among the population.
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kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

These ideas have been promoted, spreading and aerating in society through all possible means, from inclusion in education from foster scientific research in certain ways, through processing of think tanks, foundations for “development”, etc ., ( to deepen and spread the comings from elites click here ), to the manipulation of information and misinformation in the media. Consistently, do not send messages that reinforce the three ideas we have discussed, to which they add new expressions that do nothing but lead to the same concepts, such as “banks are too big to fail”, “not sustainable in the welfare state”, etc. The misinformation also plays a key factor. The concealment of critical information together interested manipulation. This is the result of the capitalist economic and financial elites have the media (to find out who is behind the media click here.)

Another of the basic pillars of the capitalist system is to believe that individuals live in a democracy, they elect their rulers and that they serve the people's will. The truth is that the popular will is only expressed in the election of some candidate, since those assume no obligation and once in power they do what " they want " . Another fiction is that there are alternatives or that the candidate of A system has different proposals to B, or A is rightist and B is leftist, or both are the centre. Actually, they do nothing and are nothing more than cogs in the interests of capital.

All this has made the slave of civilization morale, so when witnessing violence by capital is always a justification to be blurred by the absence of responsible and by the “law of gravity of the system.” If we see what happens in Spain on the subject of mortgages, which is sold to us through the media is a dose of pity with compassion, and then a series of core ideas such as: People lived over their possibilities, borrowed too much, if they could not pay for what they hired, is people losing their jobs, is people in social exclusion, etc. Basically it impinges on individualism (was free to sign or not the mortgage) and social Darwinism (lost work = is a loser, is a social excluded = not among the fittest). Regarding violence in evictions, have recently released a concept, handled in its original sense, “new”: legal certainty. They say you can not change the Mortgages Act because that would affect the legal security and legal security “in the market” is essential. A concept of legal security, which should serve to prime Justice in social relations, is completely prostituted. Can anyone imagine that not justify the repeal of the anti-Jewish legislation in Nazi Germany not to alter the legal security? If anyone thinks that the comparison is unfortunate, look at the consequences. Both Nazi and anti-Jewish laws as the Mortgage Act and related legislation groups of people are condemned to social exclusion.

3. - An unarmed society.

A couple of weekends I went hiking with 6 or 7 friends. A person wearing a dog that ran around the bush away from its owner. At one point the dog meets a small herd of sheep, about 30 to 40 animals. The dog, following his predatory instincts, attacked the sheep. The sheep started running and spinning, in panic, one after another, trying to stay always grouped. Suddenly one of them is isolated. Alone, without the protection of the herd began a mad dash. The dog chases the sheep. The dog's owner and another friend go out to look for the dog to prevent that he does not harm the sheep, leaving us on our way to meet at a certain place. The race continues until both animals are lost in a ravine and behind them the two companions. About five kilometres further along the road we found the sheep and the dog tracker. The sheep was attached to a rock at the edge of a cliff with the dog watching.

This image serves as picture of society. Defenceless as those sheep before the attack of the capital, and occasionally they take someone ahead. What can we do? There is nothing to do and behave like sheep or fight back? If we fight, how do we combat against the system?

I have no doubt that people must fight their way out of this situation, at least if we want to live in dignity, with human dignity. I wrote a post talking about the civil disobedience ( click here ) . But civil disobedience may not be enough to win this “war.” So, how the fight should be focused? I think the fight should be gradual, using all means in reach. Civil disobedience, information dissemination, protests, demonstrations, strikes, collecting signatures campaigns, etc. But should people resort to violence? What if the state increases its direct violence? Niño Becerra predicts:

in the next two to three years when economic prescribed chemotherapy go taking effect, you may even be perceived a deterioration of the economic and social life about now: to now: more poverty, more unemployment, less consumer power, less welfare, degradation of living standards,... and a brutal and indiscriminate use of violence by 'security forces of the States' with the goal to nobody interferes in the administration of such treatment, such chemotherapy . ( Click here )

We live in a society where violence has been ruled out as a legitimate social struggle. A revolution is no longer possible, as I explained in the post about the Revolutions ( click here ). I have not clear whether it will or not. Yes I am sure there will be more poverty, more unemployment, less consumption capacity less capacity... Chemotherapy will continue being applied and causing great pain. More, more brutal, structural violence. I do not know to what extent the people is going to interfere, and who will use direct violence first. I think violence is justified as long as the damage that happens through it prevents the production of further damage. I have a question, maybe you can help me: When will arrive that point where the violence used by the people will be greater than the violence of what the people is subjugated?

I finish reiterating a paragraph of the U.S. Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident : that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights are instituted among men, governments, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, the people have the right to alter or abolish it and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in the way to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that not be changed for light and transient Governments long established, and, indeed, all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed . But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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NOTES:
* Liberalism and neoliberalism: It refers to what is known in USA as Libertarianism, mainly the first, the second term would be its degradation and would be closer to neoconservatism, without the social conservative treats, at least in theory.

MY OPINION:

I believe that this text represents enough well what I think, and in summary I would say that agree with it at all. The system is violent to people. The people has fear to lose their positions, and in this fear the system is able to remove all kind of rights to people, rights that were achieved by many years of social struggle and deaths of many workers that fought for a better life. And now with the excuse of the crisis this violence is being exerted with much power. As it says there are three kind of violence: Direct, structural and cultural. And all them are applied on the people, and to fight back is necessary to fight against all these violences, and the hardest to fight is with the difference the cultural, because it is rooted in the education of people.

darckriver · Nov 22, 2012

Capitalism is good in that the many are free to trade and own what they acquire as a result of their efforts. But it's bad in that, over the long haul, there tends to be an ever growing disparity between the haves and the have nots. We can try to justify that disparity by noting that even the have nots may very well have more than they would under some other, more restrictive economic systems. But there's really no reason to assume that there doesn't exist the possibility of an better, more intelligently designed incarnation of capitalism having an optimal level of government oversight and regulation. That design would maximize capitalism's overall benefits while minimizing the undesirable wealth disparity. That what we are doing here in the US. That's what the battle between Left and Right is all about - where that optimal level actually lies, and then getting there. There's no reason to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

NetworkCitizen · Nov 22, 2012

darckriver said: ↑

Capitalism is good in that the many are free to trade and own what they acquire as a result of their efforts. But it's bad in that, over the long haul, there tends to be an ever growing disparity between the haves and the have nots. We can try to justify that disparity by noting that even the have nots may very well have more than they would under some other, more restrictive economic systems. But there's really no reason to assume that there doesn't exist the possibility of an better, more intelligently designed incarnation of capitalism having an optimal level of government oversight and regulation. That design would maximize capitalism's overall benefits while minimizing the undesirable wealth disparity. That what we are doing here in the US. That's what the battle between Left and Right is all about - where that optimal level actually lies, and then getting there. There's no reason to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.
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...or the wealth disparity grows because the elitists own the government, write the laws and the tax codes, and have a money tree where they socialize their failures. America's certainly reached an optimal mix of capitalism and government with all of the subsidies, bailouts, state contracts, and the lobbyist pit known as DC.

I personally don't think "the people" can ever control their government because there is not such thing as "the people" and the government is certainly not "us." I also think that the history that most people believe about Big Fed interfering in markets for the sake of the people is patently mythological.

Also, OP, leftist anarchism is an oxymoron. Smashing capitalism and the state makes no sense. Maybe like the author of your article, you can only think of capitalism in the terms of corporatism/state-capitalism....fascism.

darckriver · Nov 22, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

...or the wealth disparity grows because the elitists own the government, write the laws and the tax codes, and have a money tree where they socialize their failures. America's certainly reached an optimal mix of capitalism and government with all of the subsidies, bailouts, state contracts, and the lobbyist pit known as DC.
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Good point. I'm not convinced that the mix you quoted was in any way optimal but I don't know where it really lies either. It's all a matter of conjecture. Besides, regardless of what kind of economy exists, the people calling the shots usually do so in a way that ends up funneling wealth and power in their direction. Even in the most extreme State controlled economies, it was the controlling party's people and their cronies that ended up with all the loot and say so.

kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

...or the wealth disparity grows because the elitists own the government, write the laws and the tax codes, and have a money tree where they socialize their failures. America's certainly reached an optimal mix of capitalism and government with all of the subsidies, bailouts, state contracts, and the lobbyist pit known as DC.

I personally don't think "the people" can ever control their government because there is not such thing as "the people" and the government is certainly not "us." I also think that the history that most people believe about Big Fed interfering in markets for the sake of the people is patently mythological.

Also, OP, leftist anarchism is an oxymoron. Smashing capitalism and the state makes no sense. Maybe like the author of your article, you can only think of capitalism in the terms of corporatism/state-capitalism....fascism.
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In the OP I talk about the structural violence, and that structural violence is not inherent to fascism. Structural violence of the capitalism exist in the basis of the ideas of the Liberalism, the individual liberalism and the social darwinism. That ideas are implicit in any kind of capitalism, whatever if it is a capitalism with existence of state or an absolute liberal capitalism(without state).

And about my ideology, I tell you that is possible, and all the roots of anarchism are in the leftist ideas. Most of the first anarchists were leftist. The anarchocapitalism and all that is something relatively new, of the half of the XX century. I won't go deeper about my ideology in this thread, at least for now, we are not discussing if my ideology is possible or not, we are discussing the implicit violence of the capitalism. A violence that is not only directly visible, that is a violence that is done when the banks are able to live people without shelter, when the healthcare is being privatized and only people with some acquisitive power will access to it. When the education is being elitelized. All that is violence against the people.

The people exist, and there are things that could change. but only depends of the people and what people does.

RiseAgainst · Nov 22, 2012

Communists speaking negatively about violence.

Ha (*)(*)(*)(*)ing ha.

darckriver · Nov 22, 2012

RiseAgainst said: ↑

Communists speaking negatively about violence.

Ha (*)(*)(*)(*)ing ha.

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I'm having a fuking seizure! You happy now?

NetworkCitizen · Nov 22, 2012

None of you would know capitalism if it secretly bailed out banks across the pathetic globe and bit off your nipple.

RiseAgainst · Nov 22, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

None of you would know capitalism if it secretly bailed out banks across the pathetic globe and bit off your nipple.
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Well what in the (*)(*)(*)(*) are you waiting for keeping us in the dark?

Harboring knowledge is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

None of you would know capitalism if it secretly bailed out banks across the pathetic globe and bit off your nipple.
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What do you mean?

RiseAgainst · Nov 22, 2012

darckriver said: ↑

I'm having a fuking seizure! You happy now?
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No. I like you. You werent supposed to look at it!!!

kilgram · Nov 22, 2012

RiseAgainst said: ↑

Well what in the (*)(*)(*)(*) are you waiting for keeping us in the dark?

Harboring knowledge is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
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You are cruel. Your pictures left me blind, are horrible, and harming.

And a nazi comes to speak about communists, LOL.

NetworkCitizen · Nov 22, 2012

RiseAgainst said: ↑

Well what in the (*)(*)(*)(*) are you waiting for keeping us in the dark?

Harboring knowledge is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
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I wasn't referring to you as you picture pretty much shows what leftist wankers think of capitalism. Capitalism was a word created by Karl Wank in the first place, so I don't prefer that description.

What we're witnessing is socialism of banking and corporate failures onto the public dole. But it was well established through "progressive" bullhole long before that. A bunch of welfare recipients. Some call it corporatism, Mussolini called it something else.

RiseAgainst · Nov 22, 2012

kilgram said: ↑

You are cruel. Your pictures left me blind, are horrible, and harming.

And a nazi comes to speak about communists, LOL.
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Really? Was that the effect of my picture?

Ahhh, thank you Jesus, your blessings are abundant.

darckriver · Nov 22, 2012

RiseAgainst said: ↑

Harboring knowledge is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
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Yeah - so...

1 x 8 + 1 = 9
12 x 8 + 2 = 98
123 x 8 + 3 = 987
1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876
12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765
123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654
1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543
12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432
123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321

darckriver · Nov 22, 2012

RiseAgainst said: ↑

No. I like you. You werent supposed to look at it!!!
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Too late.

Serfin' USA · Nov 22, 2012

It's not an all or nothing arrangement. Most societies are a balance between socialism and capitalism. Where we should be on that spectrum is where the debate is.

Capital accumulation among the elite is an inevitable result of capitalism, so most systems have some sort of mechanism to distribute some of that capital into infrastructure.

The "violence" of capitalism is somewhat tempered by the "violence" of socialism. If you go too far in one direction or the other, that's when problems arise.

On one end, you have Stalin, but on the other, you have Pinochet.

NetworkCitizen · Nov 23, 2012

The Violence of Statism

I've yet to see a private military drop atom bombs, carpet bomb, invade 9 of 10 nations (like the Brits), place sanctions on nations to punish their government while really punishing their population, massacre their own people, etc.

I've yet to see it. Mostly because states always overtake territory by force and there is never a chance, but the fact still remains. The states are some violent SOBS

RiseAgainst · Nov 23, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

The Violence of Statism

I've yet to see a private military drop atom bombs, carpet bomb, invade 9 of 10 nations (like the Brits), place sanctions on nations to punish their government while really punishing their population, massacre their own people, etc.

I've yet to see it. Mostly because states always overtake territory by force and there is never a chance, but the fact still remains. The states are some violent SOBS
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Capitalists violently, visually attack me with their audis and multimillion dollars mansions.

Have you ever driven down newport beach? Or corona del mar? Some of these homes are like 30mil. Look at that violent price. Probably two million crackhead bums could be fed with that. And these people have their own private docks with million dollar boats. Who the hell sleeps in those boats at night? Noone, they can house probabably 20 slobs.

Its all just violence man. Driving out of these cities i have to go to the emergency room. Do these capitalists pay my hospitable bill? No! They are too busy dining at mcormick and smicks

kilgram · Nov 23, 2012

NetworkCitizen said: ↑

The Violence of Statism

I've yet to see a private military drop atom bombs, carpet bomb, invade 9 of 10 nations (like the Brits), place sanctions on nations to punish their government while really punishing their population, massacre their own people, etc.

I've yet to see it. Mostly because states always overtake territory by force and there is never a chance, but the fact still remains. The states are some violent SOBS
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Corporations has killed people. Many peole. Are you familiar of the wars of the coltan in Africa, the murders of worker unionists in South America from the 70s to 80s? Are you familiar with the today murders in Colombia?

Are you familiar with the period of "pistolorism" in Barcelona during the years 20.

Corporations are microstates, if you give more power to them they will act more as states. The battles for power among them will arise. That is a fact.

Compare the structure of a state and a traditional corporation. Don't you see similar things in that vertical structures. The worst is that normally the corporations are more similar to the structure of a dictatorship.

Now, the corporations most of the time don't need to use the violence because the state has it, and they can use it. But remember that most of the wars have been done for the interests of corporations.

The problem is not the statism(is not the only one) is the whole system.

Hoosier8 · Nov 23, 2012

kilgram said: ↑

Corporations has killed people. Many peole. Are you familiar of the wars of the coltan in Africa, the murders of worker unionists in South America from the 70s to 80s? Are you familiar with the today murders in Colombia?

Are you familiar with the period of "pistolorism" in Barcelona during the years 20.

Corporations are microstates, if you give more power to them they will act more as states. The battles for power among them will arise. That is a fact.

Compare the structure of a state and a traditional corporation. Don't you see similar things in that vertical structures. The worst is that normally the corporations are more similar to the structure of a dictatorship.

Now, the corporations most of the time don't need to use the violence because the state has it, and they can use it. But remember that most of the wars have been done for the interests of corporations.

The problem is not the statism(is not the only one) is the whole system.
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BS, most wars throughout history have been fought over resources and most resource scarcity has been caused by weather and the worst atrocities are caused by the State.

garyd · Nov 23, 2012

Capitalism kills in self defense. The state kills for offending it's altogether variable sensibilities. All I have to do to get along with a capitlist is avoid kicking him in the bill fold or the balls. The state changes its mind at a whim and you never know what will (*)(*)(*)(*) it off.

If I make money for a capitalist he will pay me for so doing if I make money for the state it will (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) that I didn't provide it more.

The capitalist is interested in money the state in power no one ever said money corrupts except for idiot leftists.

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The Violence of the Capitalism. How to fight it?

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