Time to Get Real About Ukraine

We all await with bated breath Russian attempts to produce contrary evidence.

The Daily Beast
Soldier's Phone Call Leak Allegedly Proves Who Blew Up the Dam

 

NPR
Ukraine's long-awaited counteroffensive is underway, Zelenskyy says


Reuters
Zelenskiy: Tell Putin my generals are in a positive mood

 

Same here, a but terse with my response.

 

I'm not quite so cynical. As I noted democratic States have, have for a long time now, well over century shown a clear preference for NOT fighting wars with each other. The problem is dictatorial or otherwise failing States. The current Ukrainian war is an example of the former and the civil war in Sudan is an example of the later although there are also plenty of examples of failing States fighting other failing States. And until very recently the overall number of State based wars had been declining steadily since the middle of last century.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-in-state-based-conflicts-by-world-region

To my mind the clear lesson is that the more functional democracies the world has the less war there is. (China please take note.)

 

We need less cynicism but we need to create an environment where it can flourish, not self-procliam it.

Look around and tell me where you see Democracy today and if you do tell me if it is increasing or decreasing.

 

A democracy State doesn't mean you personally get outcomes your agree with. In fact more often than not you won't. Again referencing the 'Our World in Data' Web Site you will note that the most democratic States are also the most wealthy and functional States.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorer...Sub-metric=Main+index&country=ARG~AUS~BWA~CHN

Democracy (in terms of the number of functioning States) has had a few bad years recently i.e COVID but only recently. The long term trend was towards increasing democracy. Whether the recent decline will continue is unknown but the decline has stalled as of last year. As for the strength of democratic institutions in any one State that's solely the responsibility of that country's institutions and voters. In the case of the US? The biggest problem is partisanship and the tendency of both sides to blame the other for being inflexible and unwilling to compromise. Pot to kettle! Again there is no particular reason that has to continue it's up to the voters. I suspect although mandatory voting would help because as it stands now both parties in the US tend to try and encourage their supporters to turn out while actively discouraging their opponents supporters.

That said unit proven otherwise I remain optimistic since the alternative is to fall into the trap of either disengaging from the democratic process entirely or deliberately working to suborn it in favor of the 'side' you prefer under the pretense of trying to 'ave' democracy by preventing your opponent fro ever winning. Which is the ethical equivalent of proving your support for monogamy - by sleeping with everyone in sight!

 

It's not your choice to make. The "disengagement" has already been accomplished.

 

It's everybody's choice to make. And even if your right and voting public is entirely disengaged (which is debatable BTW) there's no law that say's they have to stay that way, the pendulum can swing back the other way at any time. It has in the past and will again.

 

WAR and DEMOCRACY are not objects of free will. They do not "break out" or "swing back".

 

I disagree they are a choice.

You can choose to accept the results of free and fair election even if you don't agree with the outcome or not. Citizens of a democratic State can vote to remove a government that that chooses to declare war on another State if they choose to (or not). The key point with war however is that while its possible for any State to choose to declare war on another it's not possible for any State , regardless of its nature to 'choose' not to be the victim of aggression!

Democracy is a choice, fighting an aggressor is not. And that rule applies regardless of the nature of the States involved. Neither Russia or Germany were democracies at the onset of Operation Barbarossa. The US at the start of the Pacific war was a democracy, Japan was not. Point being you don't get choose if your punched in the nose or not, you only get to choose whether or not you want to fight back!

That said, as I can determine (based on history) democratic States never 'elect' to attack other democracies, and that is just plain fact.

 

Except your little theory doesn't hold true. NATO has bombed and killed democratic regimes in numerous African states in the last century, Ghana and ivory coast to name but two.

I think the word you're looking for is white rather than democratic. White nations haven't attacked white nations, until the Ukraine war and perhaps Kosovo.

 

That is false.

 

The Washington Post
Risks rise for Putin as Ukraine's counteroffensive begins

 

World·The Daily Beast
Putin Cops to ‘Significant Losses,’ Inferior Weapons in Stunning War Admission

 

World·The New Voice of Ukraine
Hacker drains Russian special services wallets, transfers funds to Ukraine

 

What evidence? Also fabricate a fake radio interception of Ukrainian negotiations? Or find fragments of a rocket that hit the dam?

 

Video of Russian mobniks running away from the first defensive entrenchments in mass.

 

Not only in Africa but in Europe and Asia as well.

 

Ukraine's evidence stands unchallenged.

 

"Ukrainian forces intensified their counter-offensive over the weekend, claiming to have breached Russia’s defences and liberated at least three villages in the south-east of the country.
The Ukrainian army said on Sunday that it had liberated Blahodatne, Neskuchne and Makarivka, three villages in the south of the Donetsk region — marking a break in at least one layer of Russian fortifications. Ukrainian soldiers posted a video of themselves raising the country’s national flag on a building in Blahodatne and holding their brigade’s colours in Neskuchne.
Hanna Maliar, Ukraine’s deputy defence minister, said late on Sunday that Makarivka, a third village further south, had also been liberated as “our troops continue their assault operations.". . . ."

Ukraine claims to have breached Russian defences in ...

Financial Times
https://www.ft.com › ... › Europe › War in Ukraine


Ukrainian forces intensified their counter-offensive over the weekend, claiming to have breached Russia's defences and liberated at least ...

 

World·The Telegraph
The end of Putin’s empire could be sudden

 

I haven't looked into Asia but it's likely NATO (whites) went to war with India, while they were a democracy.

 

What is their unchallenged?

 

Ukraine says it intercepted call in which Russians admit ...

POLITICO.eu
https://www.politico.eu › article › ukraine-says-russia-...


2 days ago — Security service says wiretapping confirms Russian saboteurs blew up the dam. UKRAINE-RUSSIA-CONFLICT-WAR-DAM. Ukraine's security service ...