To be consistant, shouldn't "pro-lifers" call for retroactive prosecution of women...

Not wishing to get into a religious debate, but would you care to state which particular word of god you follow (ie which bible).. there are so many it's difficult to keep track.

 

funny that, your the one when presented by evidence from religious sites debunking the nazi/abortion myth who posts "Whatever, there is no escaping the fact that you support and even advocate for mass homicides of children", exactly what does that have to do with the context of this particular section of the debate about the nazi/abortion myth in which you also stated "Which is what the opposition uses when they cannot dispte[sic] the assertion with facts." as support for this myth.

All one can see from this is you are avoiding as usual.

and your ignorance of the stages of development stands out here

One of the stages of development is a blastocyst which occurs roughly 5 days after conception and consists of 70-100 cells, some of these cells will go on to become the fetus, others will excrete an "enzyme which erodes epithelial uterine lining and creates a site for implantation."

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blastocyst

So in effect there is no "human being" until the gastrula stage of development.

 

Bash bash......yes this is not the place to discuss religion...and you would love that because it would just be another avenue for you go after people you hate. While I like to discuss religion with people....this place is different because the people and the MOTIVES ARE DIFFERENT.

You just keep on thinking what you want to think about the Bible and Christianity...and that is fine with me. Don't care one bit.
I don't make it a practice to debate with pagans over something they can't possibly comprehend. Believe how you wish...I am not rolling around in the mud on this one.

 

How is this a "bash", do you deny that there are many variations on christianity, it is a simple question so I don't make a mistake in the future and use an argument that doesn't apply to your particular brand of religion.

You are under some sort of illusion that I hate christians, I don't .. I have never "bashed" you for your beliefs concerning religion, not once.

Problem is your motives are entwined with your religious beliefs, that is evident in most of your posts.

How do you know I am a pagan, or is anyone who doesn't follow your particular brand of religion a pagan, or could it be that you are not really secure in your faith and so avoid debate about it.

Very arrogant of you to assume I can't comprehend .. isn't arrogance a sin?

 

No one is a pro-abort...or a Nazi....yea?

WEll none of you have ever had an abortion and know what your talking about but your still here aren't you? LOL

You won't touch the subject because you can't. You can't defend your position against those allegations. Can't be done.

And you are a pro-abort. You can pretend....all you want...you want abortion LEGAL. AND LEGALITY MEANS YOU THINK ITS OK FOR WOMEN TO KILL.

 

It's because you can't. You CAN'T explain how it works.

Take a scenario. "Mary" gets pregnant by "John" her boyfriend. Does an EPT, wants to self-induce, doesn't tell "John" she's pregnant, "scores" some RU-486 on the black market. Takes it....abortion induced at four weeks.

Now what? The RU-486 "dealer" going to keep records and the Womb Gestapo (churchmouse is so fond of Nazi references....let's use that term) going to track down "Mary" by the sales receipt? No....no records, no evidence.

Maybe "John" rats out "Mary"?...sees the + on the stick, realizes she's pregnant, and he being a fervant "pro-lifer" (who oddly also is cool with pre-marital sex), reports her to the Womb Gestapo. EPTs aren't error-free...false positives easily happen. And RU-486 leaves no trace in the blood after a few days and it would take a uterine scan of PIN-POINT accuracy to prove an implatation occured.

BTW, that's assuming we also throw out the 4th Amendment on illegal search and seizure and the 5th on no self-incrimination and illegally obtained evidence ("John" had no search warrent, you see). Pretty much going to have to scrap a LOT of Constitutional protections (not just Roe) for you guys to get your conviction, aren't you?????

 

Nobody in this section of the forum is one. There are pro-choicers and pro-lifers and as far as I can tell none of us are Nazis.

I guess we should all shut up then so you can argue with yourself? Is that what you want? Because it looks like you're the only one here who has admitted to having had an abortion (an unsubstantiated claim you make in fact).

Won't touch what subject? We are all here discussing and debating abortion, what other subject did you want to discuss? Do you want to go to another forum or something?

I am pro-choice which means I am in favor of the woman being free to choose to have an abortion or to continue her pregnancy.

You are pro-life which means you are in favor of denying women the right to abortion and seeing that each and every pregnancy (with maybe some exceptions life/health/rape) is carried to term.

These are the two positions. They are not that hard to remember or that hard to respectfully call one another.

 

You expect me to go into religion....when you won't address the points and questions that we pro-lifers make. The similarities betwee the pro-abort position and the worldview of the Nazis.

If I knew discussion over this would amount to anything I would discuss it in a thread that concerns the topic. How many times I have discussed something with people in a forum setting...only to have a mod shut it down. Not going that route. This subject is near to my heart because it deals with my faith in Christ. I won't discuss it with Satan...and won't discuss it with those who just want to bash over points that just don't matter. You have your mind made up...so what difference does it make. This has nothing to do with the topic.

You are not a believer, you do not possess the Holy Spirit, so your interpretations and understanding is different.

What you are doing is taking the focus off the topic. Abortion can be discussed without religion. That is what you people don't get. An atheist can be pro-life...and not be a believer in God. I personally think this entire issue is about the heart of someone. Sorry to say..but the pro-abort position is sad, tragic really.
Where is someones heart?

When you start out with a bias and are not openminded....nothing anyone will say will make any difference.

 

You say, """Abortion can be discussed without religion"""


but


YOU
bring it into many threads.... YOU do........again, you take the stance that whatever you do is OK, but no one else should do it.....and then YOU call others hypocritical!!!

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Here it is!

 

I have addressed the false comparrisons between abortion and nazis here - http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/295228-nazism-abortion-flawed-analogy.html
so your comment above is obviously incorrect.

So now I am not only a pagan I am satan himself ..

Assumption without proof is only opinion, how do you know I don't possess the holy spirit and it is not you who do not?
how do you know your intperpretations and understanding are right, isn't that arrogance.

when you can show me that the pro-life position is not firmly rooted in religious morality then it can be removed from the debate .. however, you cannot and never will be able to prove that the pro-life position is not based on religious dogma.
No the issue is about the right of a female to make decisions about her own body against the right of a fetus.
Sorry to say..but the anti-choice position is one of control and female oppresion.
Mine is in my chest, where is yours?

Lol, I am very openminded to evidence and proof, you however are closed minded if anything conflicts with your religious opinion.

 

You didn't get them right AGAIN. And you are confusing two pro-abort positions with each other.

One pro-abort position is not hypocritical and truly gives women choice and the rights to their bodies and the other only gives women rights until viability (which in the pro-abort camp changes daily) and then they tie the woman's back behind her pregnant stomach...that position enslaves her and denies her right. This is what the pro-aborts won't come out and say. Our position denies, enslaves and takes choice away.
Both positions want abortion legal and are anti-life, pro-death.

You want abortion legal so women can kill.

 

Criminalizing abortions doesn't reduce the number of abortions, it only increases the number of maternal deaths.

 

"""""""one pro-abort position is not hypocritical and truly gives women choice and the rights to their bodies"""""



and that ain't YOUR Anti-Choice position . Thank you for admitting that pro-choicers want to give women choice and the rights to their bodies and you don't.

 

No I want abortion legal so women retain legal authority over their own autonomy and maintain their freedom to make personal medical decisions over what happens to the very intimate inner workings of her body. I want abortion legal so that all women, yes including you, have a choice and are not forced to become second class citizens or broodmare slaves to an authoritarian government.

Thus the term, pro-choice. Choice to abort or choice to give birth. Choice, choice, choice.

 

I want it made illegal because I think reducing intentional homicide to a "choice" and claiming that people have an inherent right to kill others without any oversight is insane!

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unfortunately for you, the data does not support that assertion. Abortion rates skyrocketed after it was made legal. this obviously means legality means something to women.

 

LOL, there was very little data collected about illegal abortions before legalization in the US. All we have are widely ranging estimates. We do have data from other countries, however, which conclusively shows criminalization of abortion does not affect the abortion rate.

 

LEGAL abortion rates increased because women who were previously having illegal abortions were now able to have legal abortions. We know this is so because the birth rate remained about the same. IF the abortion rate had increased, it would have been logical for the birth rate to decrease.

 

LOL, that is funny because before I posted proof that abortions increased a bunch of pro aborts were saying it didn't and relying on those same stats.

you guys are completely dishonest!

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nonsense, we all know that legalization increased the number of abotrions overall.

 

Anyone who claims to have PROOF of the number of illegal abortions before Roe is obviously the dishonest one.

 

Well then you are calling you and your dishonest.

 

Ya, I'd sure like to see the Official Records of Illegal abortions, wouldn't you ?

. Who collected that information....where did the women getting illegal abortions register with the Illegal Abortion Registry?

LOL!

 

When did I say I had PROOF of the number? NO ONE has anything more than estimates. No records are made of illegal abortion .

 

No, some of us base what we "know" on evidence, not pure speculation or wishful thinking.

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
Will Rogers

 

Well that certainly doesn't apply to you! You are the primary one claiming the number of abortions did not increase after legalization!

View attachment 19466

http://gatech1101abortion.pbworks.com/w/page/1845895/FrontPage

Even if you start tracking them at legalization, the number skyrockets in the following years!

There is additional incredibly sad information found under the link.
Primary reason for abortion? "Social Reasons".
Recitivism? Over 40%

All data cited from the Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI) and the Center for Disease Control (CDC).

 

Not really, even according to your graph, the number rose somewhat for a few years, then started to drop again. Any dramatic increase in the number of abortions would affect the birth rate.