To open up or not to discussion

So recently there has been many talks on the Sunday shows about Trump wanting to open up the economy by may 1st. The doctors are saying how they will do what's best for citizens health and safety and one can infer they believe that may 1st is too soon to open the economy.

That is a fine when discussing this topic but it seems like there is alot being left out of this discussion. For example during recessions suicide rate spikes
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It’s already well known that suicide rates increase in times of economic strife and uncertainty. Previous research estimates that the 2007 economic crisis in Europe and North America led to more than 10,000 extra suicides. And findings from last year show that suicides increase both in years of significant stock index decline and in the year that follows it.
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https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/bad-economic-news-increases-suicide-rates-new-research/

Also being left out is crime rate increases

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Crime has increased during every recession since the late 1950s, sociologists said.
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And finally when discussing when to open the economy back up another thing left out is job related health insurance and potential lose of life in insurance laspes

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5110652002
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-death
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At least when talking about this is it too much to ask to present everything?

 

And increased risk of disease due to the reduced nutrition, reduced sanitation and increased difficulty maintaining hygiene that go along with the poverty of recession/depression/collapse.

If we 'distance' ourselves into another 1930s, we're going to kill a lot more people than Cvirus was ever projected to.

 

Great points and things that should but aren't being brought up when discussing this topic. It's very irritating to not present all the pros and cons imo.

 

I think holding out till May 1st won't be easy, but we can do it. Anything longer than that will cause economic collapse and societal breakdown.

 

I hear some doctors talk about shutting down until atleast July or when a vaccine is made and I think that is not a good decision imo. For all the reasons listed plus what @modernpaladin listed and it's just a travesty that those reasons aren't even being bought up in this discussion on a national stage.

 

Doctors are thinking of how many lives can be saved vs lost, but they are not economist and aren't considering the consequences from that side.

 

That’s not entirely accurate. When there’s a profit to be made then doctors don’t give a crap about life. The ongoing prescription opioid crisis is proof of that. Tens of millions of prescriptions causing tens of thousands of deaths every year. But who cares so long as that doctor gets his two week all expense paid Aruba vacation for distributing the most OxyContin.

 

Sooner the better, Trump should STRONGLY jawbone all governors with below X deaths to open up business as usual INSTANTLY, not 5/1.

And also, can we all DISPENSE with the "should we open up?" and CALL IT OUT at every opportunity? (directed at LW fearmongers, not anyone here in this thread) This is not a "we," this is an increasingly urban, localized disease in the U.S., not a "we" for 99% of the landmass. Population is another matter, but as far as "we" goes, the data doesn't support any other conclusion but IMMEDIATELY opening up, by force if necessary (if noncompliant governors) 100% of the economy of a huge portion of this country.

 

I completely agree with your post. Even though I despise Mark Cuban he did make one very insightful assertion. He stated the now hesitancy of most Americans to proceed with normality after a “country opening” will be overwhelming. The vast majority will not continue living the before lifestyle causing tens of thousands business closures and tens of millions permanently unemployed. The true crisis of Coronavirus has yet to start.

 

Can Trump force people to go back to work? Can he force them to go to restaurants, if they don't feel safe? Of course, he can't.

This is a whole bunch of nothing. If people feel safe to abandon quarantine, they will. If they don't, they won't.

He should start thinking about how to make people feel safe going out again. Is he?

 

You mean while still leftist media outlets are doing he equivalent of shrieking, "We are all going to die!" Asking for a friend.

 

The eldest of the babyboomers remember our parents' horror stories of what it was like to grow up under the Great Depression. At a minimum after Trump over-rules the myopic-minded medical professions to re-open the national economy we will be in a full blown economic depression no matter what. The longer he waits from this point onward the more likely it is to become a very big and sustained depression. Most of our younger population cannot even begin to imagine the resulting hardships at this point in time; but alas, they are going to get to experience them.

 

this should 100% be based on the recommendations of doctors and scientists.

keep politics and economics out of it.


the last thing we want to do is open up even a week too early and start this **** all over again.

better safe than dead.


...and btw, Trump has NO authority or power on this issue. The States have FULL control. Trump can only make recommendations. I guess he can also sue in court.

 

Ah, you'd rather have Trump order the media to hide the coffins, just like GWB hid the coffins coming back from Iraq? Is that the new "patriot's" way to honor the dead?

 

Trump has no authority on this matter. He can ONLY make recommendations.

I guess he can also sue.

 

Good point. All the screw-ups in regards to New York City are on the hands of Cuomo and De Blasio since they ARE . . . in charge.

 

Doctors should have the studies that show increases in suicide during recessions and depressions. All I'm asking for is an honest conversation with the pros and cons of both choices laid out for the American people

 

so you're saying the number of suicides has outpaced the number of Covid deaths?

 

I linked a source in the op that demonstrates exactly what I'm saying empirically

 

"Previous research estimates that the 2007 economic crisis in Europe and North America led to more than 10,000 extra suicides."

if we did not shut things down, we could have had 200,000 dead from Covid-19.

I think that beats your extra 10,000 suicides, just by a bit.

 

I think we should put professionals on this. Get some scientists/pandemic experts, economists, cost/benefit analysis types, risk managers, statisticians/forecast modelers.. get all interested parties together to have an agenda free conversation. Run projections, make observations. There are the type of activities that should happen, not some gut feelz by politicians.

What if we do go hog wild and open everything up. Then people start dropping like flies, AKA New York. That could destroy the economy, too.

 

And another 10k plus there's all the other things I mentioned... This isn't about shutting down, that's already happened, it's about how long should we stay shut down.

 

I agree, what I'm advocating for is an honest discussion about the pros and cons of each staying shut down vs opening up because the national news so far isn't doing that. To me this is a balancing act between not kicking off a second wave and causing a mass depression.

 

the risks of opening up too soon are much greater than the risks of staying shut too long.

i see no evidence of a massive increase in suicides.

 

Further information that might be relevant....

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The relationship between unemployment and poor health has been well documented [2–6]. The unemployed tend to have higher levels of impaired mental health including depression, anxiety, and stress, as well as higher levels of mental health hospital admissions, chronic disease (cardiovascular disease, hypertension, and musculoskeletal disorders), and premature mortality [2, 5–12]. Some longitudinal studies have shown that higher levels of depression and unemployment are not just correlated, but that higher levels of depression are a result of unemployment [11, 13, 14]. Other prospective studies have found that poor mental health contributes to unemployment [15]. ~

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/483432/