To The Older Americans At This Forum

the USA was the king of manufacturing for a generation because Europe was blown to pieces so their manufacturing capability was gone as was in Japan.

China and Taiwan (pre-China) had not become the manufacturing mecca

so, there was 1 country which had the raw materials and the facilities to mkae stuff and the USA prospered.

I've seen homes go from 3 bedroom single story ranch homes with 1 bathroom for a family of 5-6 to now being 4-5 bedrooms with 3 baths. Families had 1 car and 1 tv and maybe a 2nd tv in the parents bedroom. Dining out was special occasions. You mended your torn trousers

Now we want lots of stuff and want it cheap and there is only 1 way to do that

also, some terms which seem to have been lost


"starter home"
" saving for a rainy day"
"nose to the grindstone"
" night school"
"I'll learn to do without"
"don't begrudge others what they earned"

 

What sections would that be?

People leaving school unable to read, add 2+2=4
and that have NO ability to think clearly is the fault of the liberal government and the teachers unions.

They WANT people that way. That's how they stay in power.

 

I'm 55 years old and my first presidential ballot was cast for John Anderson in 1976. I've always been a news junkie. I had my first paper route at age 11 and started keeping up with the news then.

The most disturbing trend I see these days is corporate controlled media. Back in the day, being a newsman carried with it an obligation for integrity and a curious mind. Investigative reporting was in its heyday in the late 60's - early 70's. They helped to facilitate much of the change that occurred during that period. Remember it was the media that brought Nixon down.

Nowadays, we have info-tainment disguised as news, media blatantly shaping stories and elections and blindly accepting govt explanations for almost anything. They also tend to have no will to stay with a story, but rather flock like flies to the next steamy turd. This has not served the people well at all and has led us to the government we see today. The press has always had a special obligation in keeping our nation free and they have abrogated that responsibility.

This nation was founded as much by a free press as by our Founders. We need a free press to preserve our nation as much as any government. These days I tend to look at the media for headlines, but dig deeper on my own for information. Thank goodness we have an independent media via the internet, but you have to wade through the BS to find useful and accurate info. Oh, well, it was probably much the same way back in the day of our founding, so not much difference. It is our obligation as citizens to be informed....it's the best tool we have against tyranny.

 

How about being entitled to an iphone, xbox 360, car... all while being on food stamps and not working.... that is todays mentality.

 

I am old - but I am not American.

 

We're going to make it. Our country, despite our imperfections, is a modern miracle. Most people here are good, generous people who don't generally become obsessed with political things like we do on this forum. Here we get tp vent How we take care of our families and neighbors, and help our communities is more important to us. Only when we're pushed too far do we fight back, and we're being pushed too far right now. It will be a chaotic decade of two but we'll be OK.

It's important to know that today, just as it was in the 60s, the protests and violence are global, not just happening here. In the late 60s France and Italy seemed to be in perpetual uprising. Minorities were much more badly treated than today. We don't have to be perfect to be good and we've made enormous progress in perfecting America, don't let anyone tell you something different.

 

Having lived through the 60's and 70's, I can tell you I have never feared more for America than I do right now.


My personal opinion is America is in its last death throws, and will entirely collapse into civil war in the next 10-20 years. I think were doomed.

I am already making plans to leave the country when or if it is deemed necessary.

 

It took only about 10-15% of the population to start the last civil war. I dont see why much more would be needed this time.

 

There are days when I feel that way.

 

I feel that way every single day. Because its not just a passing idea for me. I think its inevitable. History supports this.

 

Good topic. I'm 80 so I have gone through a few things. Your really don't know your poor until someone tells you. Different people take different views on it and what to do. I knew I was poor but I went out and worked at whatever jobs I could to support myself. My family was very much opposed to Government interference. Family just seemed to watch out for family. Being poor was not such a stigma as it is today. Many of the kids followed in the paths of their parents for jobs. There was segregation but not like one might think. Yes there were black and white separation but there was also separation among Irish, Italians, Polish, Arabs, Chinese etc. There were two things that drew Americans together and that was war and music. Be it good times or bad times my dad would say "this too shall pass".

Let us look at the concerns of today.
Covid and other viruses. - We will get through it. Personally I believe many deaths are easily racked up to Covid for convenience when it could just be another flu or complication in a hospital. We have made tremendous strides in treating other illnesses' .

Illegal Immigration - It's not a pretty picture when you have thousands and thousands crossing your border as they wish but I believe some people are finally getting to realize we need to get a handle on it. The demographic makeup of the country might change but we do have a need for unskilled labor and they will be absorbed.

Incompetent leaders - Eventually the pendelum will start swinging the other way. There will be financial pain along the way but I believe people today are more financially astute than back when I was coming up. The rich back then were a bunch of old guys. Today the rich are a bunch of young guys and there more of them. Even the standard of living is so much higher today than it was in the 40's, 50's, 60's & 70's. Which in itself is a problem for many young people as they cannot obtain the same status as their parents. Then again how many mansions can we build? I'm happier mowing a 1/4 acre lawn and having free time than mowing 5 acres and being house rich with repairs.

Capitalism vs other isms. --It is my greatest fear. I'm a Capitalist and know it's not perfect but it sure beats any other form of government. I worry about the socialist and marxist attitude that many in our country have adopted. Thanks for the topic.

 

Great question! I’m 66, and I’m working right now. I’ll spend try to give you an answer tonight.

 

Yes, Bill, I think we'll make it.

But not necessarily next month, or next year, or even in the next decade.

I am optimistic because I see things in a longer run than that. Some time ago, I read about "eras" and "generational changes". I can't remember the writer, but I'm sure the author I was reading is not alone. There are probably many articles on the same thing.

I would suggest that the Great Depression, WW2, and post-WW2 was an "era" of its own. America had gone through severe economic hardship with no safety net. And then there was the World War. At the end of the war, we emerged victorious and undamaged. Post-WW2, America prospered, and we were led by the people of that generation - Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush. All of those people shared that common experience. And the American people they led believed in the goodness of America, but they also believed in things like hard work and sacrifice and that there was no free lunch. They accepted that being a great nation was not easy. Kennedy exemplified that attitude when, in his inaugural address, he famously said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

But human nature being what it is, that generation wanted its children to enjoy the things that they couldn't have and enjoy when they were young. And they gave the next generation - the baby boomers - everything they could. This was the world the boomers grew up in. And as they matured into adults, they assumed a belief in their entitlement to everything good. All of the Presidents since Bush 1 grew up in the baby boomer, post WW2 generation. The Depression/WW2 era people are dying off. Virtually all of our members of Congress, media leaders and personalities, teachers, etc, are baby boomers or their children. And we, collectively, have created a new era that has little in common with the WW2 era.

In my opinion, in this present era, we have become soft, spoiled, and selfish. And quite honestly, we will not find self-esteem, success in career or social life, a happy family life, or success in the governance of a nation when we are soft, spoiled and selfish. We now stress over "micro-aggressions", and we become easily "offended", and we have developed a "cancel culture" to protect our oh so fragile feelings. Deep down inside, we don't like ourselves much, and we transfer that self-hate towards our country and our fellow citizens.

Our leaders are no better. They are self-absorbed and hypocritical, and they lie to us shamelessly. Gone is the ethic of "country first", replaced by "me first" - what benefits me.

So why am I optimistic?

Because history will look back on this era one day. Someday, the architects of this era will be gone or almost gone. And by then, the moral bankruptcy of this era will be clear, and no one will be afraid to recognize it. Just like we look back on slavery and wonder how anyone could justify that, much less fight a war over it, our descendants are going to look back on this era and judge it honestly, and it's going to be a harsh judgement. They will shake their heads at our folly and foolishness. And I think eventually and gradually, this selfish, soft, entitled society is going to realize that this is no way to live and no way to succeed.

You're 25. Perhaps your children will lead this change. Perhaps your children's children will. But I believe it will happen. A reversal of course is inevitable, in my opinion. It's just a matter of time, but it will come.

In the meantime, live well. If you have children, raise them right. Set the example for them. And teach them that our country is worth fighting for. Not necessarily on a battlefield as our predecessors have (unless necessary), but for its soul. We should teach our children to love our country, recognizing its history and faults, but loving it all the same. We should look back to that WW2 generation for inspiration. They were disciplined, thrifty, self-reliant, hard-working, humble, and patriotic. Fortunately, we still have people like that - young and old - who fit that profile. Let's emulate them and learn from their successes and pass those traits on.

And let us remember that we were never entitled to anything. Instead, we were bequeathed this nation by those who came before us. They sacrificed, they had great courage, and they worked hard. And we inherited this from them. And so let's be humble rather than arrogant and selfish. We didn't earn this. We inherited it from others. Let's remember that when we look at our flag. Let's remember them with thankfulness and humility, for we owe so much to them. And let's pass that respect and humility on to our children and our children's children.

The sooner we snap out of the malaise of this present era, the better ... for all of us.

Seth

 

Under the current political leadership? No and the tunnel is not only getting longer and deeper but darker. I lived through the Carter inflation and interest rates that were necessary to bring it down. Biden has us heading right down that path with those same failed Obama/Biden policies.

 

we will get through it, but it will be painful, as the country is so divided

could we have another 1929, at some point no doubt we will, as soon as we stop printing money

excessive foreign outsourcing and excessive foreign imports are taking our jobs and our money, this has consequences, there will be a price to pay for putting our hands in Pandora's box

 

You seem to be making two points. The second one-- that we live in an incredibly wasteful society, driven by consumer desires that are primarily ego-centric, and often irresponsible-- is clearly true. This is not only a predictable side effect, but an intentional condition, brought about through supply-side economics.

Your first idea, however, implied as being half of your argument's set of conceptual bookends, I do not believe is as true as you state it to be. I am referring to your suggestively portraying the U.S. to have been playing on borrowed time (not just borrowed money), in an artificial post-war environment of a devastated world. While it cannot be denied that the destruction from WW 2, in some countries, took years to recover from, that certainly has not been going on until just recently.

The picture has more moving, and changing, parts than you depict. But, for brevity's sake, I will assert that the U.S. was already an economic powerhouse, when World War Two arrived, and our war effort only supercharged our potential. Did you know, for instance that, at our entrance into the War, despite the dark appearance of things, for our allies, FDR already took it as a given that, with all of our industrial capacity, there was no chance but that we would be successful-- that the Axis's goose was already as good as cooked, the moment the U.S. walked into Hitler & Friends' kitchen? Further, the prolific penchant of Americans for innovation & invention had already been long since established. So, one might consider both America's war effort, and our rebuilding Marshall Plan, in terms of their economic benefits to the U.S., as the most effective commercials imaginable, for the U.S. brand, winning us the world's trust, admiration, & goodwill. It is some of this that, recently, has been squandered.

That said, I am not claiming there to be no economic challenges for us to face. It had taken much time for the U.S. to build itself to the point at which we fully, "arrived," on the world economic stage. That same process has been taking place in the evolving economies of China & other Asian nations, especially, who feel nearing, their own times to shine. But we still, in the U.S., hold the advantage for maintaining our own primacy; preeminence is essentially ours, to lose. This requires forward-looking thinking, however, which, in turn, requires functional government.

 

Kudos to the OP for writing an OP that is still worth discussing a decade later.

The OP will now be 35 so it would be interesting to see what the OP things now.

Lots of interesting responses and @Seth Bullock made an excellent point about generational changes. That is when a younger generation comes of age and starts to flex their RIGHTS to express their opinions and vote for what they want in the future. Needless to say that results in opposition from those who are now losing their grasp on power. That is the current situation between the aging Boomers and the Millennials and Gen Z.

The Boomers are largely responsible for our current predicament and a great deal of it is from GREED. That is a recurring problem in our nation and the Robber Barons of yore are the Internet Billionaires of today. Some old, same old!

Disclaimer: Not everything the Boomers did was greed motivated but the global problems we face are definitely as a consequence of greed.

It is GREED that underlies the problems that we face now and in the future and it cannot be allowed to remain without DIRE existential consequences for both our nation and the planet.

On the positive side the Millennials and Gen Z are better educated and have better means to communicate and work out effective strategies to deal with the issues that they have INHERITED.

For example there is a SIGNIFICANT refusal to accept the GREED based pittance pay levels that were the norm prior to the Pandemic. There is also a refusal to accept being forced to COMMUTE when the internet has proven itself more than capable of ENABLING work, shopping, business travel and education. Why return to the time wasting expenses and pollution practices of sitting in traffic jams for hours when that time and money can be put to better use for both families and corporations.

So what is happening NOW is a PARADIGM SHIFT!

It is NOT the first and most certainly will NOT be the last either.

 

Math sez that cannot be. If you are truly 55 right now, then you were born in 1966, 1965 at the earliest, which means that in 1976 you were 10 or 11 years old. US-Americans can first vote at the age of 18. Just sayin......

 

Nice OP, a breath of fresh air around here. Good for you.

My message to you is: we will make it.

Our Republic has faced multiple crises before and not only survived them, we came out the better for it.

I was born in 1963 and my political awakening happened in 1974, with the resignation of Nixon. Been following politics and major world events ever since.

Two things:

-the more things change, the more they stay the same. In 1964, the year where LBJ cleaned Barry Goldwater's clock, Conservatives were screaming election fraud. There was none. In 1971, Liberals were screaming that Nixon would be the last President we ever had. It didn't happen. In 1961, Conservative nutbags were just convinced that Kennedy was a commie. He was not. He never was. I think you get the point. Lots of disinformation and a gratuitous portion of out and out lying. It's no different today.

-Was HAS changed in the pace at which we digest our news, moving from Albert and Edith watching the 6 PM news on one of the three stations available at that time (ABC, NBC, CBS) whilst eating their TV dinners on a TV-tray and bemoaning how awful the world has become (of course, after Albert porked his secretary on the way home to his nice TV-Dinner meal courtesy of Edith, who got pounded by the mailman at the noon hour, oh family values, family values!), to a 24-hour, literally every minute news cycle where everyone is breathlessly searching for details, all the while hoping for more FB and Twitter followers and crap like that. My point is that the incessant bombardment of news upon our heads is not healthy for us, especially when pols use this in order to further their own personal agendas.

We have an extremely imperfect system but we are a resilient people. And we are still not as divided as we were during the Civil War, that is for sure.

Forces behind the scenes are herding us mentally into tribal camps and feeding us with negative information in order to get people to hate each other. It's the good old "divide and conquer" technique in it's most simple form, actually.

Want to avoid it? Then don't be tribal. I'm not.

 

Your math is correct if that post were made now.

However the date on the post you are responding to is from a decade ago.

Someone has resurrected this thread from somewhere.

 

economic challenges are there but there is also a fundamental issue of morality and ethics. You can debate it all that you want but an "entitled" generation does not bode well if the goal is to work hard, sacrifice and succeed as a nation. More govt is never the answer and socialism must be defeated.

 

The Founding Fathers EMBRACED socialism.

The WELFARE of We the People being a CORE principle of the Constitution.

The FIRST universal healthcare program was implemented by the Founding Fathers.

As far as being ENTITLED goes the Founding Fathers were the ONLY ones entitled to VOTE when our nation was established and as far as ETHICS and MORALITY are concerned they ENABLED slavery.

So pointing a finger at other generations and accusing them of being "entitled" is DISINGENUOUS.

 

An interesting post, describing what is certainly not a unique evolution. Your last stage, however, uses erroneous terminology: being willing to take government assistance does not make one, "a liberal"-- corporations with boards of "conservatives," do it, all the time.

 

yes, the liberty to succeed or fail on their own merit. Your liberal interpretation perverts the founders beliefs. Keep in mind that our founding fathers left tyranny and would roll over in their graves with what is happening to this nation

 

The Founding Fathers would be APPALLED by YOUR biggest *LOSER* and the UGLY divisive RACISM that he has INCITED.

They would be even further OUTRAGED by the GOP Senate FAILING to REMOVE him from office for his HIGH CRIMES.

The Founding Fathers were primarily LIBERALS and it is YOUR biggest *LOSER* that is is advocating for TYRANNY and the OVERTHROW of the duly elected government of We the People.

FACTS matter!