To The Older Americans At This Forum

I wonder if the older Americans can add their insight. Many of you have seen it all. The civil rights movement and the political assassinations of the 60s. The oil embargos of the and stagnation of the 70s. The height of the cold war in the 80s. A relatively quiet decade in the 90s. 9-11 in the 00s. And finally a massive economic collapse in the 10s. Some of you may have even lived through World War 2. And if you're really friggen old you may even remember the depression. (btw kudos for living that long and not being afraid to use a computer)

I wonder...after living through all those things do you believe there is light at the end of the tunnel for our current crisis? Or does this crisis feel scarier and more threatening to America than any before it?

I'm curious because I'm fairly young. I'm 25 years old. When George W. Bush took office I was 14. Barely old enough to understand how our government worked. And certainly not old enough to care. All I've known in my political awareness is war and economic misery. But it's hard for me to understand that we've been through stuff like this before and we made it out stronger because of it.

So what do you think? Are we doomed? Are we going to make it? Or are you just not sure?

 

Most of us knew it all when we were your age, somewhere between yesterday and being invited to dinner when Martha was FLOTUS.
Bottom line, don't grow gray hair, its been worse and at least as frustrating.

 

Economically, it was worse in the 1930s. But there was political stability.

Politically, it was worse in the 1860s clearly. It might have been as bad politically in the 1890s, but I'm not sure. But there was economic expansion for most of that decade.

To the best of my knowledge this is the first time America has had simultaneous economic, demographic and political crises of this magnitude.

Each time there has been a political or economic crisis of this magnitude there have been convulsions politically. Often these convulsions saw the birth of new political movements, e.g., the creation of the Republican Party in the years leading up to the civil war, and the birth of Populism and the Progressive Movement in the 1890s.

 

each crisis ended eventually

 

I can tell you that when I was young and in school I was very liberal and knew everything.

Then as I got out of college and had to face paying bills and working a job to get ahead I got more and more conservative and knew alot less.

Then I had kids, a family and a retirement account and home to protect and I got uber conservative while knowing practically nothing.

Now, my kids are in high school and presumably smoke pot against my advice, I have no real job anymore since my company went out of business, I spent my retirement funds to keep the family afloat in our house, and count on unemployment to pay for everything but our mortgage, which thankfully my wifes job covers each month. NOW, I am a LIBERAL for as much as I can recoup from what I have paid to the govt over the years to support others.

So, I am a liberal for me but a conservative for everyone else... and have no apologies whatsoever to make for that. NOW, it is MY turn to suck the teats of those huge govt boobjobs which I previously helped to pay for...

 

another crisis. It wouldn't be so bad if some sections of the country could only learn to read & then learn history.

 

While I was born in the 1960s, my mother was born in the late 1920s, and hence remembers the Great Depression, WWII, etc. She's more concerned about the inability of those in government to work together toward solutions than the economic crisis itself.

I interviewed her a few years ago (informally). One question I asked was what she considered the hardest time of her life. She answered that it was the recession of he 1950s.

I fully expected her to say the Great Depression or WWII. But my mother grew up on a farm, so didn't want for food during the Depression (my father's family, on the other hand, had to eat whatever they could shoot or trap). WWII was hard, but my father didn't go to war, so my mother enjoyed security that other families didn't.

By the 1950s, we'd dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and McCarthy was hunting 'reds'. My parents were married and raising a family by then, no longer having the security of the farm. My mother remembers this as a hard time economically, and a scary time politically.

If I were to ask her the same question today, I have no doubt she'd say the time since my father passed - an event which transpired after I first posed the question to her.

My partner and I aren't feeling the economic pinch - yet. There are things about current times that make us hopeful, and others that scare us half to death. Personally, I remember the 80s as being about the hardest time I've personally faced.

In other words, how people feel about the tough times now versus major events of the past is relative to their personal situation, their mindset and values.

 

Still, no crisis and God I love America and would not want to ever live anywhere else. And, my kids don't see any more stress than would a teen who grew up during my childhood, except instead of worrying about sneaking away to listen to the Beatles, my kids now worry where their next $2 for tacos at TB will come from...

My kids already know that they will need to do what both of their parents did to get college degrees - work jobs and get loans if they can. Even though both of my kids are in the top 5% of their class grade wise and also are officers/captains of their sports teams, they know that probably instead of going into Pre-Med at UT in Sept, they will start school at some local junior or community college and save some money during their first two college years.

 

TheTaoOfBill:

The fact that you would ask this shows you have an insightful curiosity.

Having made it through the Great Depression and WWII, it's probably pretty safe to say we will make it through this also; although with the rise of China we are likely to lose our preeminence.

One thing to keep in mind is that our rise was enabled by the post-war boom. What is going on now (and has been for years) is the rest of the world returning to normal after the devastation of the war.

Rough times are ahead as we snap out of the silly stupor we have been under that we can spend our way to prosperity and deal with the reality of the situation. But we will weather it and come out a more stable nation in the end.

 

I may not be old, but I do know some history.

Right now, we're on top of the world but we're starting to slip. China is catching up to us. A comparsion would be Great Britian and Germany prior to WWI. Great Britian was the head of the world's economy, but with Germany also emerging, GB was starting to slip.

 

I can easily see my kids going to work in some other country as more and more and more businesses move to places where corporate taxes are lower... and so are their workers taxes, btw... doh.

I forsee lots of dual citizenships in the future or citizenships in foreign countries which offer tax shielding regardless of where Americans are born.

I also sadly forsee the US just becoming another decrepit non-Mexico extension of corrupt Mexico due to the huge moneys being thrown our way. Hope I can get some without having to hurt anyone or ignore others hurting anyone before the market gets saturated..... jk, I hope to God.

 

I can easily see my kids going to work in some other country as more and more and more businesses move to places where corporate taxes are lower... and so are their workers taxes, btw... doh.

I forsee lots of dual citizenships in the future or citizenships in foreign countries which offer tax shielding regardless of where Americans are born.

I also sadly forsee the US just becoming another decrepit non-Mexico extension of corrupt Mexico due to the huge moneys being thrown our way. Hope I can get some without having to hurt anyone or ignore others hurting anyone before the market gets saturated..... jk, I hope to God.

 

When I was young my father said, "You can borrow money to make money but you can't borrow money to live. It doesn't work." I was hoping the nitwits would learn in the relatively harder times that my father was right and that citizens and the government would learn you can't live on borrowed money.

They haven't. Oh, I think the politicians on the left know the country can't live on borrowed money but they've learned that borrowed money will keep them in power.

 

Why do people always pick on California like that? They can't be blamed for everything.

 

I was old enough to vote for Reagan in 1984. I remember vividly the Carter malaise and I know history.

I believe we have seen the last of the great days. Not because of this economic catastrophe, but because we have put in place a structure of government that is so entangled in our every waking moment, that we will never again no true liberty. Obama didn't start it, but he has done everything in his power to make it worse, much worse.

We are (*)(*)(*)(*)ed, we're done. People on the left, or those under 30 have pretty much no idea what we have lost. The American experiment is now a diseased cell in a petrie dish.

 

my mother told me about the Great Depression and how close her father came to loosing his cotton farm. but they held on and prospered.

my dad told me about the days of $1.00 per bbl oil and just making enough to hold on to the leases.

I have had a blessed life, with loving parents, a supportive and close knit small town to grow up in, an education which allowed me to find great jobs in my field, a family company to run after my dad was no longer able to do so, and a delightful homelife.

I am now retired, happy, and have no complaints from a personal or financial point of view.

however, I am alarmed at the decline of my country. I thought I was thru with politics, until Obama came along.

 

Because As California Goes so Goes the Nation (1965 Watts Riots)(1966 Curfew Riots) (LBJ visit to Century City Riots ) (1992 Los Angeles Civil Unrest) ...

 

First of all, NOBODY knows if we are doomed...but I can absolutely tell ya this...if we keep on doing the same ol same ol things we have done we will keep on sending the same ol same ol "business as usual" to Washington.There has to be a strong backlash sent to Washington by the PEOPLE. Mainstream media has been electing our presidents for a long time...they are in the pockets of their sponsors who just happen to be power people (likes of George Soros, Bilderbergers, corporations, etc.) We have ALLOWED mainstream media to influence our thinking, voting accordingly not realizing we were playing right into their hands....and the politicians have sold just about every freedom and liberty we were guaranteed in the Constitution to foreigners and globalists...so let me give you some thoughts I have as an older American: Don't take a politician's word for ANYTHING...check their voting record, do research on them....listen to previous speeches, youtube is a good source.

I am a Ron Paul supporter...he has NEVER voted to raise taxes, NEVER voted to go to war, returns a portion of his congressional budget to the Treasury every year, declined to participate in the lucrative pension congress voted for themselves...his is not an isolationist, he is a non interventionist, big difference...lobbyists don't even go to his office, they already know the answer. Watch his speeches on youtube, mainstream have tried to ignore him and put him in as bad a light as possible, the "big boys" definitely DON'T want him in office....so they are working through mainstream media...BUT I'm thinking who are they to tell me he is unelectable because the mainstream won't go for him? That's what our Texas congressmen tell me also, "we have to support Rick Perry, Ron Paul is not electable"...so, I'm thinking...and our congressmen know what Perry is all about and his corruption and they are supporting him...know why? Because they are scared to death of him, they are afraid their congressional budgets and perks would get cut if Ron Paul were president and sent them a budget....they want the same ol same ol "business as usual" and that's exactly what they will get if Perry is the President...

Now....for Rick Perry...he attended the Bilderberger conference in 2007...SHOULD be a red flag to ALL Americans...violates the Logan Act....sold our roads to foreign investors...facilitated the biggest buyout ever of TxU (Texas utilities) to the globalists...if ya don't know what a smart meter is, better find out, I have one on my home, sensors calculate wattage during peak hours and charge much higher rates, caused my electric bill to double...ERCOT is asking congress to let them be able to control the temps in our home through the sensors....like Walmart temps are controlled in Arkansas....Gee, thanks, Rick Perry...so far, it has been blocked but I guarantee some lobbyist is gonna offer someone enough money and we will be sold out....another freedom we will have given up...have you ever read the book 1984 by George Orwell? Rick Perry is NOT a conservative...look at his lavish rental on youtube and see what ya think....

One of Mitt Romney's biggest contributors is Goldman Sachs...health care bill is called Obamney care...that was enough for me.

Michelle Bachmann said if she is elected, gas will be $2 a gallon, well is she can do that, why don't she do it now? Another empty promise...

The point of all this is I have done my homework and looked at these candidates other than mainstream media....the only candidate I can support is Ron Paul. Since politics begin on the local and state level...I have joined the local Liberty campaign for Ron Paul and intend to campaign for him...

I would NOT try to influence or sway which way you vote. Your vote is your principles and what you believe in....me I want my freedom, liberty, small government, less regulation from the government, ALL troops home from these senseless wars and nation building...the war mongers do NOT want that....they would lose money...do not listen to them.

 

in my lifetime the worst was the 70's I graduated in 1975 and couldn't not buy a job !! I ended up joining the ARMY , no regrets though !

 

Why would you buy a job?

 

Right, that's crazy. A lot of Americans won't even work if you pay them.

I would buy a job if I then had a legal property interest in the job so I could sell it to a foreigner who wanted to work.

 

yeah, serfdom!

 

Charles Dickens said it best in "Tale of Two Cities"

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

 

This time is different. All the Nations are in debt to the International Bankers, and they already have the rules in place for defaults when we all start to default. This time they also own or control the major manufacturing and major agribusinesses, in addition to controlling Western governments and the worldwide Media. I hate to think of a world resembling the early days of the Russian Communist Revolution, where millions of Christians were murdered, starved, or sent to the Gulags, but that may well be what is in store for us.

 

I was born in 1950. The "political movements" I recall strongest are:

1) Anti establishment, i.e., hippies in the 60s
2) Anti-war in the 60s and 70s
3) Civil rights in the 60s
4) Anti Nixon in the 70s
5) Anti Carter in the 80s
6) Anti Muslim recently

Notice a trend? Most activists are more against something than for something. Although there have been movements for civil rights, abortion, gay marriage, etc.

The country seems more divided than at any time I can recall. During most movements, such as civil rights, it is obvious which side is correct, it just seems to take a lot of time for "right" to win out.

Now we are in a time where approximately half the country believe in freedom, the constitution, limited government, individual responsibility, and property rights while approximately half believe in strong government, "share-the-wealth", welfare, and "it takes a village to raise a child". At the same time, only 50% of American citizens pay taxes! It seems obvious which is correct to me, but it may take a revolution to settle this one! I sincerely hope not - I'm too old to be of much use in a war!

It is refreshing to see someone your age asking and trying to learn instead of thinking you already know everything.