Too late to save our species?

I’m not expecting any useful commentary from climate change deniers and other anti-science advocates but this summary scares the living daylights out of me given today I had a four year old ask some very challenging questions some of which were like another request I had some months ago from a three year old along the lines of ‘Why are they trying to kill use?’
The Trump administration has made eliminating federal regulations a priority, often targeting environmental rules it sees as burdensome to the fossil fuel industry and other big businesses. A New York Times analysis counts more than 80 environmental rules and regulations on the way out under Mr. Trump.
To put it simply I suggest we’re all on the way out under Mr T.

 

Trump has been prez for 2.5 years. While I totally disapprove of him rescinding some environmental laws, I don't think you can blame humanity's downfall on him.
Why not get after China and India--the two most polluting countries in the world? How about Japan's Fukishima disaster?
I have a two year old granddaughter. I spend countless sleepless nights worrying myself sick over what her future will be like.
We are going to go extinct. Too many people, and populations in third world countries are set to double within a few decades.

 

I'm looking at being 85 in another month. There's no longer a lot of things I have to worry about one of them being the idiots who are destroying the world. Who said there weren't advantages to being old?

 

More doom and gloom. Why is it that none of those who claim to embrace the science of Algoria, have any scientific solutions?
Why do all of their solutions look like wealth redistribution?
Buy a carbon credit and get a license to pollute. See how that works? That's proof that those selling carbon credits couldn't give a rats ass about environment. And who gives them the authority to sell carbon credits? The planet doesn't belong to them.
Why is it that none of the warmer science predictions ever come true?

 

Are we surprised that Gov't will use any excuse to raise taxes ? - as that is all the Carbon tax is - just another tax.
Will this money be used to help the environment ? - of course not - it will go into general revenue.

I don't say that CO2/warming is not an environmental issue but, what I can say with certainty is that it is not top of the list. Pollution of the Oceans is the #1 issue.

2 and 3 are industrialization and population growth (which are also related to CO2).

We are doing almost nothing about the top 3 issues.

 

I'm not anti-science and there's a point where there are too many regulations that only hinder economic growth and prosperity.

And what do you mean by "climate change"? The Earth's climate has been changing for 4.6 billion years and will continue to change and there's nothing that we can do about it.

Also, CO2 and global temperatures are at a 600 million year low.

 

Something to do: https://4ocean.com/

 

Give liberal and communist policies another 20 years and we will have dramatically decreased the number of humans on the planet.. except , of course, all of the species from Africa and other s-holes.. but at last the white people still around will have cheap labor.

 

Plastic is bad but relatively low on the list. Unfortunately there are much bigger issues with respect to Ocean pollution such as heavy metals and persistent organic pollutants.

Using the Oceans as a garbage can for human waste and fertilizer run off is also a big issue.

Oceans suffocating as huge dead zones quadruple since 1950, scientists warn

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/04/oceans-suffocating-dead-zones-oxygen-starved




I read a study some years ago that looked at industrialization. At the time there was 1.4 Billion industrialized. Out of a population of 7.5 Billion this means 6 Billion are not.

The process of industrialization is very dirty - Mercury from smokestacks in Asia are increasing mercury levels in Tuna around Hawaii.

When someone goes from eating a bowl of rice a day to having a piece of meat every so often this increases the amount of global carbon usage/energy usage but also increases the amount of pollution into the oceans via fertilizer.

The study I read stated that if China was to reach first world levels of consumption - world resource production would have to double. This is just China. India and numerous other nations are also industrializing - then there is Africa which is another story.

Bottom line is that we are already hitting thresholds - more than 2 cans of tuna a week and one exceeds the mercury guidelines for pregnant woman. While his is a low threshold - we are still hitting them.

We know there is a "tipping point" - a point at which the equilibrium in the Oceans is destabilized to the point where many species can not survive .. or worse - where the bacterial creation of oxygen (roughly 60%) is disturbed.

Can we afford to double current input into the Ocean ? at which point not even half the world would be industrialized. Global population is projected to be 8.5 Billion by 2030. Doubling the amount industrialized would = 2.8 Billion.

If we wanted we could drastically reduce CO2 emissions in a very short period of time. What we can't do is filter the Oceans.

 

Ever smelled a manufacturing plant that produces the basic nurdles or pellets which are shipped to other plastic manufacturing plants to produce plastics of all specifications?

Plastics all come from crude oil fractionation in the beginning. Ever smelled fractionation in process? Even my toothbrush is crude oil.

But the end of plastics is far worse than the beginning. Packaging and plastic products are the greatest scandal on earth as the oceans fill with them.

 

I did not claim that plastics were not an issue. I merely stated that there were even bigger issues.

 

Climate change is not going to kill us. The worst predictions is that the global average temperature raises 6 degrees, melting the ice and oceans rise pushing inland around 200 miles in low places.

Hardly the end of the world.

Basically Iowa will still be around 40 degrees cooler than me in Arizona right now. Instead of an average temperature of 72 degrees in July they will be at 78 degrees.....I hardly think that is going to kill anyone off, do you?

There is no threat from climate change but there is a threat from pollution which is a completely separate matter.

Still, humans are adaptable, extremely adaptable, so no we aren't going to go extinct from that either.

 

If you're waiting for government to do something effective you're going to be waiting a long time. The guys that started 4ocean are a couple of surfers who decided to do something. To date they've removed over 2 million pounds of plastic from the oceans and I'm guessing they're making decent bank while they're at it. If you think there are more important things to be done to resolve the pollution of the oceans, do it.

 

It is great what these guys are doing. I agree that Gov't - and environmental activists in general - are mostly ignoring the issues I mentioned.

Your comment "if there are more important things to do then do them" - is nonsensical.

 

If you folks would put more effort into combatting pollution you may find more support out there than you think.

Instead, putting your efforts into climate change is having an adverse effect on the nation. It's hard for people to go pick up trash when they are laughing so hard.

 

No clue how your post relates to anything I have said but .. you keep on keeping on

 

Interestingly the US has done more than any other country on the earth on a per capita basis. Yet all the loose screws bitch about the US as if we have done nothing at all. Oh and we've done it without crippling ourselves.

 

I watched that movie last night in a drunken wine binge.

Hahahaha

 

Its nonsensical to take action based on your beliefs? If the 4ocean guys thought that, the millions of pounds of plastic they're removed from the oceans would still be there and they would likely be much less wealthy. Start a company, start a movement, figure out a way to resolve the problem you recognize, save the planet and get rich. What part of that is nonsensical?

 

I doubt that is correct - "on a per capita basis" but your overall point I think has merit. First world nations are not generally dumping pollutants into the Oceans willy nilly .. especially not heavy metals and persistent organic pollutants. We do however have a run off/fertilizer problem but this is small in comparison to others.

The point of my diatribe is that industrialization of non first world nations is going to extract a terrible environmental price - and second world nations such as Mexico, Brazil and others are still dumping massive amounts of pollutants into the oceans.

The big problem is that few in the environmental community are talking about these issues - issues that are bigger and more pressing than climate change.



Unlike the fuzzy climate warming math and various prognostications .. we can measure some of these Ocean impacts directly.

While we can debate the effects of climate change - there is no debating the rise in ocean pollution - it is an empirical fact.

Ocean 'Dead Zones' Are Spreading – And That Spells Disaster For Fish
https://www.iflscience.com/environment/ocean-dead-zones-are-spreading-and-spells-disaster-fish/

The above article states that over 10% of the Ocean is now a "dead zone".

 

I never said it was nonsense to take action based on beliefs. What is nonsense is you trashing information relating to pollution of the Oceans on the basis of "why don't you do something".

 

My recommendation to take action in no way trashed any information relating to pollution of the Oceans. If you misinterpreted my recommendation to take action, that's on you. It seems to me that you have an opportunity to address an issue you recognize as a problem that is not being adequately addressed by others. Take action, have an impact, get rich... or not. That's on you, too.

 

Sorry many environmental regulations are doing absolutely nothing to prevent damage to the environment or much of anything else.

 

What "opportunity" ? This assertion is patent nonsense. One person is not going to encourage India to stop the process of industrialization .. and it is ridiculous to assert otherwise.

In a discussion of what the environmental issues are - it is mindless gibberish to state "well why don't you do something about it". Full Stop.

 

Since business is the source of all wealth in our society including yours and mine, be glad when the environment for business improves. Some federal regulations are good and many are bad. Bad ones are bad for society from top to bottom. It is obvious to me that the EPA has gone out of control. Perhaps you missed it over the past few decades.