TP Economic Theory Put to the Test

Yes, democracy is democratic, if nothing else, and Americans enjoy representative governance.

The GOP's crash is on schedule for the next national election, but TP Sammy's befouling Kansas serves as a warning for fanatics in other red states. Such a wake up call could serve to sober up zealots elsewhere and render them less repugnant in '16.

Non-partisan state budget analysts have projected that Brownback's application of TP dogma will create a billion dollar state deficit within five years.

The Kansas City Star reported on 10/24 that Davis was ahead of Brownback, 52% to 45% in a Rasmussen poll, an outfit well-known for its pro-Republican bias.

“Fifty-eight% of voters thought Kansas was worse off today than it was four years ago when Brownback took office,” the Star said. “Most Kansans don’t trust Brownback with taxes, another bad bellwether given that income tax cuts are his seminal achievement during his first term in office.”

One can only hope that the infusion of more Koch big bucks and a desperate, last-minute smear campaign against Davis will allow Brownback to hang around and his carcass continue to perfume the prairie zephyrs beyond January.

No justice-minded spectator would wish the mess Brownback has created on anyone but Brownback.

Maybe he can still pull it out and perform his penance for a couple of years.

 

Did you factor in the cost of living index? My dollars go a lot further in Texas or Kansas than they do in New York or California.

http://www.top50states.com/cost-of-living-by-state.html

This house is within a couple of miles of my house and is typical of the area.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/404-Desert_Waxahachie_TX_75165_M75531-14422?row=17

What would it cost for this much house 30 minutes from a comparable city in New York or California?

Here is a house with the same asking price in Antioch, CA. It's about 30 minutes outside Oakland. I picked Antioch because my uncle lives there.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/44-Russell-Dr_Antioch_CA_94509_M26383-30462?row=8

I realize that these houses weren't chosen at random and there are other areas that can be compared with different results, but the cost of living difference is obvious and cannot be ignored.

 

Of course, the more desirable places to live cost more. That's only a confirmation of the capitalistic principle of supply-and-demand.

(Alaska is a notable exception for obvious reasons.)

 

That's a personal preference. I consider Texas to be more desirable and my dollars go about 40% further. That's a 40% bigger house, 40% nicer car, etc....

 

There's no accounting for taste. I once knew a bartender who could have any whiskey on the market and his favourite was cheap stuff that I found repulsive. Go figure. It worked for him, and that's all that mattered.

Cost of living is reflected in income, of course. If you're a high school teacher in Brownsville, your median income is $49,356, in Portland, Maine $54,215, in New York City $65,944.

If I measured my success by the size of my house I might move to Albany, Georgia - only then I'd be in Albany, Georgia.

 

Keynesian fiscal policies always fail. Throwing money at the banks balance sheets that never reach the "main street" economy only benefits WS.
Here is what does work despite the democrats first claims that the surplus was inaccurate then when proven it was accurate they claimed that it was still a failure just because they said so.
"As we noted in late January, the state's "surging tax revenue" was decidedly not precipitated by tax increases. Governor Scott Walker -- who has cut taxes several times over his first term -- urged passage of an additional tax relief package in his 2014 state of the state address, arguing that the unexpectedly large surplus ought to be "returned to taxpayers because it's their money." Last week, the Republican-held legislature complied with the governor's request, over the strident and eternally predictable objections of tax-and-spend Democrats:


Republicans moved closer to making Gov. Scott Walker's plan to use the state's surplus to cover $504 million in tax cuts reality Tuesday, pushing the measure through the state Senate despite Democrats' complaints the proposal is just a token election-year ploy. The bill now heads to a final vote in the state Assembly. That chamber has already passed the measure but must agree with changes the Legislature's budget committee made to win a key senator's vote...Passage is all but certain. "The hardworking taxpayers of Wisconsin know how to spend their money better than politicians in Madison do," Walker said in a statement ... Walker also introduced another bill that would use about $35 million from the surplus to fund new Department of Workforce Development job training grants, including grants to eliminate technical college waiting lists for high-demand fields, help high school students get job training for high-demand jobs and help the disabled find work. The Assembly passed that bill last week. The Senate followed suit Tuesday, approving it unanimously. That measure now goes to Walker for his signature."

 

Oh, that's cute. You keep putting "Red State Model" in red letters. I bet you dot your i's with a smiley face.

One would think that a former professor would know the meaning of the word "literally".

 

Yes, that's the party line from a right wing website.

While Sam Brownback's Red State Model is a stark example of extreme TPism, and a positive spin is put on Walker's ideological approach, Minnesota affords an alternate paradigm of sensible, pragmatic governance:

 

Whilst TP types are incensed by my emphasis on Sammy's thusly touting his ideological experiment, perhaps it should be brown.

 

And without missing a beat, you switch from cutesy lettering to poop humor. You keep it classy, Natty.

 

Why you feel you must insinuate your scatalogical frame of mind into a discussion of economics?

I underscore the attribution to Brownback of the consequences of his fiscal extremism, and you immediately indulge your "poop" predilections.

Please try to focus on the topic, the paradigm of his Red State Model.

 

You are presenting an opinion, which is fine but you need to be more specific about what TPism you are referring to unless you are just tossing undisputable garbage out there to effectively stifle any educated rebuttal.
Which one of these platforms do you find harmful to our economy and why?
"1. Eliminate Excessive Taxes - Excessively high taxes are a burden for those exercising their personal liberty to work hard and prosper as afforded by the Constitution. A fiscally responsible government protects the freedom of its citizens to enjoy the fruits of their own labor without interference from a government that has exceeded its necessary size, scope and reach into the lives of its citizens.

“Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery.” --Calvin Coolidge

“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.” --Thomas Jefferson

“Any tax is a discouragement and therefore a regulation.” --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.


Also see: What is the Tea Party; Tea Party Ideas; Tea Partiers; Voice of the Tea Party

2. Eliminate the National Debt - By implementing fiscally conservative policies at all levels of government, progress can be made toward eliminating the U.S. National Debt. Massive increases in the National Debt have created and continue to create a huge burden for the next generation of Americans, thus imperiling the country’s short-term and long-term economic health and prosperity.

“You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.” --Abraham Lincoln

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.” --Thomas Paine, 1776

“As on the one hand, the necessity for borrowing in particular emergencies cannot be doubted, so on the other, it is equally evident that to be able to borrow upon good terms, it is essential that the credit of a nation should be well established.” --Alexander Hamilton, 1790

Tea Party Platform continued:

3. Eliminate Deficit Spending - All deficit spending must be eliminated immediately. We insist that government representatives at all levels maintain a fiscally responsible budget and balance the books as would be expected of any American business.

“Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.” --George Washington

“A penny saved is a penny earned.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Tomorrow, every Fault is to be amended; but that Tomorrow never comes.” --Benjamin Franklin

Tea Party Platform - Home of the Tea Party Movement Platform continued:

4. Protect Free Markets - America’s free enterprise system allows businesses to thrive as they compete in the open marketplace and strive toward ever better services and products. Allowing free markets to prosper unfettered by government interference is what propelled this country to greatness with an enduring belief in the industriousness and innovations of the populace.

“That some achieve great success, is proof to all that others can achieve it as well.” --Abraham Lincoln

“You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.” --Abraham Lincoln

“The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.” --Ronald Reagan

Tea Party Platform continued:

5. Abide by the Constitution of the United States - The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and must be adhered to without exception at all levels of government. This includes the Bill of Rights and other Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and their provisions designed to protect states’ rights and individual liberties.

“A general Dissolution of Principles & Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the Common Enemy.” --Samuel Adams, 1779

“The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon.” --George Washington

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” --Abraham Lincoln

Tea Party Platform continued:

6. Promote Civic Responsibility - Citizen involvement at the grassroots level allows the voice of the American people to be heard and directs the political behaviors of our representatives at both the local and national level so they, in turn, may be most effective in working to preserve the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of this country’s citizens.

“The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.” --Patrick Henry

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” --Abraham Lincoln

“Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light” --George Washington

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” --Thomas Jefferson

Tea Party Platform - Home of the Tea Party Movement Platform continued:

7. Reduce the Overall Size of Government - A bloated bureaucracy creates wasteful spending that plagues our government. Reducing the overall size, scope and reach of government at both local and national levels will help to eliminate inefficiencies that result in deficit spending which adds to our country’s debt.

“My observation is that whenever one person is found adequate to the discharge of a duty...it is worse executed by two persons, and scarcely done at all if three or more are employed therein.” --George Washington

“If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy.” --Samuel Adams, 1802

“Energy and persistence conquer all things.” --Benjamin Franklin

Tea Party Platform continued:

8. Believe in the People - The American people, given their guaranteed freedoms, will thrive in a democratic, capitalist environment which allows individuals to strive toward ever greater achievements, innovations and the efficient production of needed and valued goods and services.

“Industry need not wish.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.” --Abraham Lincoln

“The people will save their government, if the government itself will allow them.” --Abraham Lincoln

Tea Party Platform continued:

9. Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics - American politics is burdened by big money from lobbyists and special interests with an undue influence on the peoples’ representatives. The Tea Party movement is seen as a threat to the entrenched political parties and thus is the continual target of smear campaigns and misrepresentation of its ideals. We choose not to respond to these attacks except to strongly and explicitly disavow any and all hate speech, any and all violence as well as insinuations of violence, and any and all extreme and fringe elements that bring discredit to the Tea Party Movement. We are a peaceful movement and respect other's opinions and views even though they do not agree with our own. We stand by the Tea Party beliefs and goals and choose to focus our energies on ensuring that our government representatives do the same.
10. Maintain Local Independence - The strength and resilience of a grassroots movement is the ability of citizens at the local level to determine their own platforms, agendas and priorities free of an overriding central leadership. Exercising the clearly stated message of the Tea Party movement by its nature involves discourse about which policies and candidates best hold to our stated principles, and these various opinions should flourish and evolve at the local level."

 

Fair point. TPism encompasses radical right social agenda, kowtowing to the corporate elite, and cockamamy fiscal policies, amongst other traits. Whilst Sammy could be the poster boy for all those aspects, I am focusing here upon the hallmark of his Red State Model, his real-world application of airy-fairy TP economic dogma. The consequences in Kansas are far less muddled since you had the complicity of a Republican-controlled legislature to insure Brownback's "real live experiment," and their collusion was essential for the stark, empirical results that serve as a cautionary lesson for others.

 

You want to compare handpicked cities to a Texas border city with a huge illegal population. OK. My job requires me to live closer to a larger city, but I have worked in Brownsville dozens of times. I like my home better, but with the right income I would have no problem moving there. I would have to adjust to the liberal politics.

The cost of living for teachers is 43% higher to live in Portland Maine. Housing is 102% more expensive.
http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/brownsville_tx/portland_me/costofliving

 

Given the regurgitation of the Tea Party propaganda, i can not resist pointing out just how hypocritical and contradictory that platform is from inception.

This platform repeats two of the pillars of the traditional finically conservative, a balanced budget and elimination of routine deficient spending. The key word they conveniently forget is "balanced". You have to lower spending where you can and raise taxes to make up the difference. You are never going to balance the budget by running up the deficient year after year (and thus only compounding the interest) by handing out tax cuts.

You want real lower taxes? Get you financial house in order. Get Military Spending under control. Restructure the rules for Social Security, not to make a profit, but to be self sufficient. Part B Medicare has always been fine, but do something smart for once about the GOP unfunded mandate Part D drug benefit. If you simply allowed the Government to purchase in bulk the drugs on the approved schedule you could slash the bleeding by half. After doing what you can on the sending side, adjust the taxes to pay for what you passed. That is what fiscal conservatives have asked for since WWII.

 

The issue to me is where that tax cut revenue is ending up. Obviously it is ending up somewhere other than where Bush and Brownback (with their airy-fairy Randian ideas) thought it would end up. The casinos, maybe?

 

I just chose a few locales randomly to demonstrate the wide range, but the basic supply-and-demand principle of capitalism dictates that the places that are more desirable for more people are the most in demand and, consequently, are likely to be the most expensive. The theory and the reality coincide.

If you insist upon an ocean view from a rocky cliff, you'll pay more for it, but if your personal desire is to have a huge house, you can do far, far better in an economically depressed area.

If you're looking at general quality-of-life issues, there are objective, comparative surveys, but anyone might have aberrant personal priorities of course:

Of course, this matter diverges from the thread's topic, Sam Brownback's Red State Model and how his TP economics have performed in his Kansas "experiment."

 

Unless Kansas can compete with china, forget about it. Now, a mostly automated factory could perhaps compete, but that sort of business doesn't really grow jobs.

Factories left for 80 cent an hour labor, and not the taxes so much. Labor rates drove the exodus of consumer good production.

Having the cheapest widgets by offshoring doesn't help create prosperity in America, and we used to know that.

If Kansas wants to bring factories that use people they could forget about the tax breaks and make their people work for a buck an hour. The trouble is, far too many conservatives won't face the fact of what made our manufacturing leave. Allowing them to go to where they could exploit the poor that we would not allow here in America. I think they know it, but just want lower taxes as a matter of principle, to starve the beast, and get rid of as much of the safety nets as possible.

 

You may thank Bill Clinton

We know good and well why factories left America............and it was not conservatives.

Americans themselves are to blame for wanting the cheaper widget...........

We did this to ourselves...........

 

The value of Kansas as Brownback's Red State Model, his self-proclaimed "experiment" and showcase for the application of TP economic theory, is that it serves as a rare and much-needed test, a reality-check for a constantly-preached ideological dogma.

The objective, pragmatic question regarding such an "experiment" is, "How well does it work?"

And Kansas, unfortunately for Kansans, provides the answer.

Since Sammy worked his magic, Kansas' job growth has failed to keep up the pace with the national average, Moody's has cut the state's bond rating for the first time in over a decade, and it is now projected that his tax cuts will cost the state $5 billion in lost revenue by 2019 as the Sunflower State's deficit soars.

To diehards that plead for more time, I say, "Go for it!"

Kansans may differ.

​

 

The following edited article provides the gist of the failure of Sam Brownback's Red State Model, and the devastating impact it has had on Kansans.

Whether Sammy learns from his mistakes, others have and others will. Regardless of the strident, airy-fairy, ideological rhetoric, you won't see full-blown crackpot TP economic notions being inflicted on other states.

Neighboring states that have faired demonstrably better by maintaining responsible economic policy can join with pragmatic Missouri in demanding, "Show me."

Sam sure showed 'em!

(His "No handouts for veterans" policy is yet more odious TP poopdoodle.)

 

Yet you ignore debt per capita or total debt of those states. Debits and Credit don't have to equal in your mind I see. Good economics is more than median income. Of course Georgia is always a red state because it is a southern state in the dems' mind even though the GOP does not control the state.

 

Or, it might be because Georgia has a Republican Governor, a Republican-controlled State Senate, a Republican-controlled House, a Republican Senior US Senator, a Republican Junior Senator, a majority-Republican House delegation, and has voted Republican in the last 5 presidential elections.

However, we should not allow ourselves to be diverted from the lesson of Sam Brownback's Red State Model. His "experiment" in Kansas is a unique opportunity to see the ultra-conservative theory of governance actually applied with the full complicity of an accommodating legislature.

A high price is being paid by Kansans, and it would be foolish to ignore Sam's illuminating demonstration.

 

Sorry, politifact and the state democrats tell you you are wrong, but I am sure you are just unwilling to accept that the national dem agenda sucks so bad that the independents and conservative democrats won't support you there.:

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s.../mike-berlon/which-party-has-more-supporters/

 

You had erroneously claimed, in regard to Georgia, that the "GOP does not control the state."

I explained to you that Georgia has a Republican Governor, a Republican-controlled State Senate, a Republican-controlled House, a Republican Senior US Senator, a Republican Junior Senator, a majority-Republican House delegation, and has voted Republican in the last 5 presidential elections.

Say no more, say no more.

To get the thread back on track, despite an understandable attempt by some to avoid the matter and derail it,