Trump can’t secure $454 million appeal bond in New York fraud case, his lawyers say

saw that one live. If anyone knows Trump, it is Cohen.
Trump is hurting: Self inflicted wounds

(an aside: but The Source is proving to be an excellent program Kaitlin Collins is doing a great job and is facts oriented.)

 

He is becoming more unhinged. That is showing more and more. One cannot take what he says as credible due to his chronic psychopathy...... and his decompensation. His long time facade is coming undone. He HAS to know at some level that he has blown it and that he is responsible . If he is NOT aware at all......then his psych problems are even more serious.

 

The problem is that the penalty itself is already excessive. And to answer related quotes, I am not excusing him. I am pointing out, that in a criminal proceeding(or if Civil Courts were deemed as connected to federal law), the sixth amendment would activate because as a financial penalty, this is cruel and unusual punishment.

Like, it's not the Trump Company LLC being fined, it is Donald Trump the individual. Such fines in a criminal case has a legal max.

Civil Courts also aren't "the law of the land", only ONE court has that distinction: The SCOTUS. These penalties can only be such, because up until this point Civil Courts have almost no regulations.

Which makes sense, since it's mostly small claims, etc.

Basically these fines are happening because of a loophole(or better said an oversight) in the relation of civil courts and federal regulations. While it's not the case right now, these financial abuses by the civil court means we can no longer leave it up to a civil court to police themselves.

We should ensure that they comply with the 6th Amendment of the Constitution in future cases.

 

I'm not a lawyer (obviously) and I don't live in NY.

But, I've heard that there are tough limits on using property as surety in bonds. The reason is that the state wants the cost of bonds to stay low - like 2%. That's not nearly enough to cover the variability in real estate value.

Also, real estate investors don't keep their money tied up in properties - surely Trump has those properties mortgaged. And, for how much? The way he jacks around valuations, the mortgages could be for more than the hotel is worth!

Karma?

As a side issue, Chubb has caught MAJOR flack from all over the USA for providing the bond in the EJCaroll case. The person making that decision (CEO?) has felt it necessary to explain that move.

My bet: he's in deep trouble.

Will Lara Trump hand over RNC money so Trump can fund a bond so he can appeal his loss?

 

Unless, all this time, Trump has been lying about his wealth:
$500+ Million should be couch cushion money to him....

 

Trump and the Trump Organization are facing these fines as a form of disgorgement, aimed at eradicating the profit derived from illegal or improper activity.

Look at it this way:

If you rob a bank, you're going to be asked to pay back what you stole.

And, you can't whine about that being too much. Everybody will agree that what you stole was too much.

 

We wouldn't be in this situation if civil courts had an appreciable max to the penalties it can have a loser incur. And legislatively, this is crucial.

Donald Trump today, some jockey tomorrow.

 

But they didn't rob a bank, from the case's principle they overstated value in order to capitalize on the capital gains market. They weren't the first and won't be the last. This crusade certainly has its personal implications, and that itself also has a part to play in this absurd penalty.

Also, by the court's own admission, 500M is more than the property's worth. If we proclaim to be "better" than Trump, this is wrong and it's a moral wrong. One that can only be corrected by legislation.

Civil Courts must be bound to the 6th Amendment of the Constitution. No Cruel and unusual punishments.

 

Would that be appropriate?? Legal?? ethical??

 

Yes, it was white collar crime.

The penalty was not $500M.

I have NO idea where this "better than Trump" comes in. He committed a crime and now he's been convicted.

Clawing back the profits of a crime can not possibly be considered "cruel and unusual".

I would suggest it is the absolute minimum.

 

No one ever said you had to store money in a bank. https://www.gao.gov/blog/more-7-million-u.-s.-households-have-no-bank-account.-why

So it wouldn't be illegal/unethical unless they track the funds and find something wrong with them.

 

The max would need to be the amount of profit stolen + some max penalty or max prison time.

 

This an absolutely preposterous dodge.

You can't be a real part of our economy without banks and loan companies.

 

So the 'deposit' is higher than the 'crime'?(and it can't be called a crime since it wasn't a criminal trial). Again, if it were no matter how much you feel Trump should pay the utmost that he absolutely can, there's a limit under federal regulations:

https://legal-info.lawyers.com/criminal/criminal-law-basics/what-are-criminal-fines.html
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/cruel_and_unusual_punishment

We need reform to tie our civil courts with federal regulations, if they're going to start to be asinine like this.

 

It's legal under our law system, banks aren't compulsory. Now, if you'd like to change that then advocate for that change.

 

The court has decided this amount. No, it is NOT cruel and unusual. Plus there is a message there. Trump has not been an ethical businessman, and has abused the system for hs own advantage. There is a principle involved. He has bragged ad nauseum. as to how RICH he is........ and that seems to be a facade..... and it is cracking , revealing the real facts abut trump. He and his actions have exposed the shyster for what he is. He is being held to account. Long overdue.

 

I KNOW you have the view that the 'penalty' is excessive. The bloke sentenced to die would also regard that as excessive. That is beside the point which you seem yet to recognise.

NO MATTER what size the "penalty" is, the Statute Law (not Court determinations) demand that if you appeal you must put up a security at least in the same amount as the 'penalty' plus interest.

That is THE LAW OF THE LAND, just like being sentenced to death is the Law of (some of) the Land.

We all have to comply and no Court has the power to change Statute Law unless you are going to argue the Law is unconstitutional, and no-one is suggesting that.

 

Of course he*** has, and that is what now is being exposed.

*Rapist
*Swindler
*Bordering on pathological

 

The amount keeps growing due to applicable interest rates.

Clawing back the profit of a crime IS NOT cruel and unusual. It is the LEAST our government should be doing.

You are not addressing this point.

And, it is the central point of the court judgement against him.

 

Banks are not compulsory.

However, they are INCREDIBLY hard to avoid if you are interested in partaking in our economy in anything but a miniscule way.

In the main, buying a house, starting a business, etc. requires loans, insurance, escrow and other facilities that are not easy if you are demanding to pay in briefcases of cash of various denominations.

 

Yup...
Several reliable sources (for years) have been saying that he has been grossly exaggerating his net worth.

 

There shouldn't be interest rates, the penalty should be fixed. Courts aren't a bank. Now this is usury. Again, this is scary stuff to see how far a court can go(and how some can justify it.)

This is not what we, as a civilized nation, agreed upon when it comes to our laws. Morally, if an average-earning person misses on his/her loan applications, should they now be fined millions?

Going by this abusive argument by the NY Civil courts: Yes. The Sixth Amendment even says in proportion. Separate case, but words is not proportional to 90 million dollars.

This is extortion against the loser, plain and simple and it's something Congress will have to address.

 

Spot on!! Hard to understand how anyone can still defend his actions... and try to immunize the court decision. Might be that "loyalty" (blind) thing to Trump. The law applies to everyone. Even Trump.

the curtain iscoming down on Trump and we might be learning more truths as his lies are exposed.

 

Correct. However, Courts are the instrument of the people and when it is determined by a Court that money is due, NOT TO IT, then interest accrues to the awardee who is not a bank for the loser either. The money is due and payable to the awardee from the moment of judgement, and so...interest rightly accrues in favour of the awardee until the award is paid in full plus all interest..

 

Put it this way, if this defendant in a civil case were fined in proportion to similar cases, do we doubt he'd be able to pay it? We have evidence of him putting down the money on the Carroll situation for example. That shows us that if these fines had been what they normally are for dare say anybody else, they would have been paid by now.

The courts, in going for this obscenely high number in effect chose to delay the judgment of the winners.