Trump can still halt the panic.

I dont disagree with this statement. With that in mind if for example without the block we would have been seeded with 5,000 cases from abroad, and with the block we were seated with only 500, then isnt it reasonable to conclude that the block is logically a very likely reason for why we currently have among the lowest death tolls worldwide per 1 million residents? If we had instead been seeded with 5000 cases from abroad, do you suppose that our deaths would be MUCH higher given the "nonlinear rate of spread" that you are referencing?

 

I know it sounds weird.

Viruses grow exponentially. Exponential curves arc toward the sky. The danger zone is where it is steep, and it doesn't take long to get there as we've seen.

That's the more major problem.

Those who come here are an example of linear growth - not causing a curve that arcs toward the sky. With linear growth it's the number of new entrants that entered today. With exponential growth it is a multiple of all cases we had yesterday. We need that multiplier to be LOW or our hospitals are screwed.

Shutting down travel is probably good (haven't heard medical comment).

But, experts have been focused on what we need to do in order to not totally swamp our hospittal capacity - like has happened in Italy. For that, we need to blunt that exponetial growth arc.

 

It is FAR better that we have less rather than more infected "seeds" planted from China. Therein lies the efficacy of shutting down travel from China way back in January.

You are not seriously trying to put forth the notion that the number of infections being planted here from China is irrelevant are you?

 

I agree.

Shutting it down at the outset made a lot of sense - though our decision making on that seemed less than optimal. I've never opposed that. One would hope that might even allow us to find and isolate the few infected.

Shutting down Mexico TODAY makes a lot less difference. Shutting down Europe except UK made NO sense and came after Europe was already well infected.

Closing our border with Canada (especiall British Columbia) could have made a difference for Canada. But, we didn't do that.

 

Okay.

That is because I strongly disapprove of what Trump and the politicians have done to our country, including ordering the destruction of our once powerful economy.

There are now more than 21,000 cases that have been confirmed in the United States. That is to be expected. As the U.S. tests more, it is logical to expect more cases. It is illogical to assume the increasing number is all due to increasing number of cases.

Put a different way, there are 21,000 cases of the common cold caused by a new virus. That is not at all unusual.

In a nation of 327 million, there have been 288 deaths caused by complications of the common cold from the coronavirus in three months, most are the elderly with underlying conditions and in nursing homes or other facilities

Again, that number is not at all unusual. In fact, it is quite low.

Are you listening to what I am saying? It is far more important than Trump.

 

I am going to go out on limb here and offer a really crazy idea.

Could the cure be worse than the disease in a very real sense. Think about it. Dad and mom have lost their jobs. Bills will go unpaid, most likely for months. The children are underfoot because of school closures. The average family has permanently lost thousands of dollars in their retirement savings and investments. It will take years to get back where they were a few weeks ago, if they get it back. They can't go anywhere. They are ordered by politicians to stay home and all sports are shut down. No NBA or NHL championships. No March madness. No Masters, and all golf leagues are cancelled. The start of the baseball season has been postponed.

Will this cause an increase in stress? Of course, and in a major sense. It is reasonable to assume the murder rate and the suicide rate will go up, as people go nuts and frustrated, unable to correct the many concerns they have or find relief in leisure activities. The death toll from covid-19 is quite small in the U.S., 288 in three months.

The suicide and murder rates are already high in the U.S. It is reasonable to assume that there will be a sharp increase in those numbers caused by the solutions the politicians have come up with regarding the coronavirus.

Crazy, huh?

 

If it was the right decision, what do you mean by the decision making was less than optimal?

 

The implementation was slipshod and illogical.

For example, blocking Europe travel except for UK.

 

In our conversation about shutting down travel from China, what you had said was "Shutting it down at the outset made a lot of sense - though our decision making on that seemed less than optimal.". We were discussing shutting down travel from China and mentioning at the outset also indicates China. What about the decision to shut down travel from China are you claiming was less than optimal?

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

This doesn't cover all we didn't do - such as quarantines for those who were allowed to travel after the "ban", those who were involved in commercial traffic that wasn't stopped (which needed to continue), etc.

 

We have governors in a bidding war for life-critical equipment.

Just another example of trump leadership - a disaster! What did he have to say, ~"The Federal Government is not a shipping clerk".

We all knew we were screwed when something serious happens under trump. And we are certainly screwed now. The Commander in Chief is AWOL. Why? He doesn't know how to lead. He is in way way way over his head. That is why they constantly have to correct what he says in news conferences.

 

Biden should start issuing shadow orders and trump can pretend they were his idea.

 

Obviously, America has been the Laughingstock of the World ever since Trump was Elected.



Now, because of Trump's Failure to lead (during this crisis), The World PITIES the USA.

 

So your link wants to start parsing whether it was properly titled as travel restrictions or a ban? That seems silly to me. I am not interested in going down that rabbithole, and I do not believe that serves as proof of decision making being "less than optimal" while making the a very bold decision that also happened to show great foresight and was undeniably a correct decision.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

I presented facts from a reputable source. I'll stand behind that.

And, I don't accept your paraphrasing it's content as a method of invalidating what it says.

 

Facts that dont actually support your premise, but facts nonetheless. I hadn't realized there was a difference between being under travel restrictions versus being under a travel ban. I would have always assumed that both would have some exceptions. I stand corrected....I guess (sarcasm).


At this point, it is all one big colossal waste of time because neither of us even cares about the inanity that this conversation has devolved into and what is now being debated. Nobody seems to be able to end a conversation with any form of respect or dignity anymore. It is getting unbearable.

 

I don't agree in that our politicians are STILL not telling the truth.

We need a record of who IS telling the truth so we can start being FAR more careful with what is said by those who lie.

Unlike China, we leave our liars in place. That requires protective measures by EVERY citizen.

 

Intelligence agencies, the CDC and others warned Trump about the problem on January 3, due to the fact that they had been watching China closely, knew about their delay, and had talked with experts in China by then.

They couldn't get Trump to move.

BUT, the warnings were clear to Senator Richard Burr. He immediately sold dozens of stocks with a combined value of between $600,000 and $1.7 million while downplaying the issue!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...9d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

 

Speaking of misleading information, your post is a perfect example of such. After reading your post and seeing that you provided a link for your claim, I was left with the distinct impression that your link was going to validate the claims that Trump was warned about this on January 3rd, and that the warning was clear enough to Senator Burr that he went out and IMMEDIATELY sold off his stocks. In the context of our discussion which is what really matters or else this is simply an exercise in going off on a strawman argument, that would mean that even with Trumps travel restrictions from China, he enacted it very late because the information was clear enough to even Senator Burr on January 3rd for him to go and immediately sell off his stocks while it took Trump much longer to make his decision about the travel restrictions on China. To read your words, Senator Burr was prescient, while stupid old Trump was still hemming and hawing about making a decision to do anything. None of that however is correct.

In reality, your link does NOT say that Trump was warned on January 3rd, rather a member of the CDC had a discussion with a Chinese Colleague on that date. In reality and more to the actual point, Senator Burr did NOT sell off his stocks in early January, that sale did not occur until February 13, which was long after Trumps travel restrictions, which is a much different set of information than you conveyed.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ssuring-public-about-coronavirus-preparedness

My original point stands, Trump's bold early call on Travel Restriction on China is very likely the reason that we currently have the lowest death toll per million residents amongst the large developed nations that have frequent international travel. When it is all said and done, THAT is the objective measure by which his overall response will be judged. Perhaps in the end those numbers will change and you can use that measure to fry him, but as of right now, you really have nothing.

All of the rest is just petty bickering and people twisting words to fit their preconceived agendas. Your previous post and accompanying link that doesnt actually prove what you implied that it proves is a shining example of such.

 

I started this thread two months ago. I am resurrecting it because of Trump's tweet of him and FoxNews personalities superimposed over the actors of "Independence Day". That was the type of speech he should have given in February and followed through. Instead he's continued to do everything wrong I've pointed out above in spades.
He stands in the bully pulpit, it is his job and responsibility to unite the population to work together and move forward in step to minimize the devastating effects of Covid-19. Instead he is being counter productive by trying to deflect all blame from him and in doing so is creating unnecessary rifts in the population. If he just moved forward, uniting the people, and finding solutions we'd all forget about where the blame lies. He has little time left to do this. Once the states rushing to reopen activities also see their covid-19 cases spike up big time the blame on him for encouraging this to happen will fall squarely on him.

 

Well, that claim didn't age well.

Some people look stupid, the Gov of NY is clearly an idiot, but, no panic.

IT’S FINE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND IN RESPONSE TO NEW FACTS, BUT YOU NEED TO DISPLAY SOME HUMILITY UPFRONT: Why scientists are changing their minds and disagreeing.

If you’ve tuned into the daily news cycle during the coronavirus pandemic, you’ve probably noticed circumstances where scientists seemed reluctant to share information, debated the latest research on social media or downright changed their views.

In our culture, we often hold politicians, corporate executives and other leaders accountable for the consistency of their positions. In political debates, candidates will often point out on the debate stage that a rival swung to the left or right over a controversial issue. It suggests a lack of authenticity, or even careerism, and indicates that they can’t be trusted to do what’s right for their constituents.

In the scientific world, it’s expected that even the highest-ranking academics will evolve their thinking — and many have done so during this Covid-19 pandemic.

But some scientists fear that the public doesn’t understand this, and is losing faith in scientists who change their minds. And that’s having real consequences on the front lines.​

If you speak with the Unchallengeable Voice Of God, and then you change your mind and speak again with the Unchallengeable Voice Of God, people will notice.

 

This still isn't happening(and let's pray that it never happens). But it's become clear, without a center of a doubt that Democrats want to use the virus to bolster their election chances against president Donald Trump. And to me, that's a sign of where the party's fallen.

 

So you have a problem using trumps failures against him. Hmmmm. How many people does he need to kill before it gets your attention? His lies and crackpot claims have surely killed thousands..at least!

 

No, I take moral issue with using tragedy and people's deaths to score gotcha points. We didn't really do this with 9/11, though you could have blamed both Presidents Bush and Clinton.

 

You think that the Democrats want this? That's insane. We do want Trump out, he's been a horrible president for the nation and the world. And yes, the US has a responsibility to the world, with great wealth comes great responsibility. But that extreme is hardly necessary.

Now the question is why is Trump pushing Churches to reopen? Does he not listen to the smart people or has he succeeded in removing all but the ass kissers from his world? Yeah, yeah, you're going to say he's not forcing anyone to do anything but threatening states with withheld money that they badly need is forcing them to allow it and churches that don't reopen will be accused of this that and everything else until they do or will have armed protesters breaking into the Churches, synagogues and mosques.

Why can't he wait until the death rate slows to a trickle as well as the spread? We are on track to a quarter of a million dead by August and that was before his push to kill church going people. Churches have a much, much higher percentage of high risk members than nearly any other group, certainly of any large gatherings. Does he want the second wave to start now rather than later when there's a chance for a vaccine? Why? Is it because he sees the writing on the wall and wants to hand over the country in the worst shape possible out of spite? Does he do it because a resurgence now will result in a much more prolonged lock down and "there's opportunity in bankruptcies" as he said?