Trump insinuates using rifles to fire on Liz Cheney

Don’t play with kiddy gloves. She used her feminine guile to climb the ladder. America needs to teach power hungry hos that they can’t trample us good men

 

@Patricio Da Silva

"Oh, let’s get something clear: the terms of that deal, the one signed in Doha under Trump’s administration, weren’t just flawed"

Oh, let’s get something clear: the withdraw under the Biden administration, weren’t just flawed... it was a catastrophe... treasonous even....

The buck stops with Biden....Biden changed the rules, not Trump... Trump was not president...Biden had 7 months to get it right.... and obviously he did not come close... 13 Americans died from Biden's mistake as the very terrorist who killed them was released from the prisons at Bagram when Biden abandoned the base...

Will he be held accountable? ..... NOPE.....
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/06/politics/kabul-airport-attacker-prison/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/world/isis-k-suicide-bomber-prisoner-released-from-bagram-air-base
https://www.theblaze.com/news/suicide-bomber-kabul-airport-released-from-bagram-prison

 

@Patricio Da Silva

"Oh, let’s get something clear: the terms of that deal, the one signed in Doha under Trump’s administration, weren’t just flawed"

Oh, let’s get something clear: the withdraw under the Biden administration, weren’t just flawed... it was a catastrophe...

And the best part @Patricio Da Silva..... Commie-la was the last person to leave the room and she had as much decision making power as Joe.. and she would not have changed any of it..... let him say it himself..

Let Biden speak for himself
Joe Biden Says He Delegated His Presidency Powers To Kamala Harris
Joe said that she, as VP, had the same abilities to changes things as he did... on the view...
Joe Biden Says He Delegated His Presidency Powers To Kamala Harris

ff: 20 seconds
https://rumble.com/v5gblt1-n-the-vi...ted-his-presidency-powers-to-kamala-harr.html

 

Dude you have no idea how this stuff works, do you. The planning for both of those began long before Trump was even sworn in. Both were undoubtedly sold as low risk high reward operations of limited shelf life. Stuff mil int wanted badly to do for whatever reason and Trump never a military guy bought what they were selling and they went al least to some extent fubar. I suspect that may be at least part of the reason he seemed for the rest of his presidency to not be entirely trusting of the our military professionals' opinion.

 

Biden couldn’t handle it. That’s what really happened.

 

As a member of the military fighting for her country then let's see how she feels about supporting the wars she has. You know what the Dems said about her father and other Bush administration officials.

 

Yeah, I know. The US got played by the Taliban. But then, the US played & upended the Afghan culture for 20 years. What were US forces doing in Afghanistan in the first place? (Thank you, Bush.)

Either continue the withdrawal, or remain in the quagmire & ensure more violence and US & Afghan casualties. The decision to evacuate was the right one. The US was fortunate only 13 soldiers died. How many would have died had we stayed to protect the ASF & resist the Taliban's advance?

As a side note: The Afghan people don't want the US in their country. We brought nothing but death & destruction to the nation's people. Why would they not want to side with the opposition force? At least the Taliban are Afghans/Pashtuns, and not Americans.


Further reading:

Afghans fear US Army and NATO operations more than the Taliban
https://www.sott.net/article/360885-Afghans-fear-US-Army-and-NATO-operations-more-than-the-Taliban

Twenty Years of US Presence Only Replaced Taliban With Corrupt Warlords in Afghanistan
https://sputnikglobe.com/20211006/t...rrupt-warlords-in-afghanistan-1089701437.html

Gautam Mukhopadhaya: ‘The US didn’t invest in institutions of Afghan democracy, in trade, or even in its army’
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/afghanistan-crisis-us-troops-taliban-takeover-7483282/

 

Trump recognized the futility of Afghanistan. We've been playing 'whack-a-mole' there with terrorists for many years with no benefit to US. He did make the right decision to pull out and had a plan and structure for doing so. Unfortunately Biden could not monitor the Taliban and hold their feet to the fire like Trump would have, and Biden would never seek Trump's advice and counsel.

 

Biden was.

But then, throughout Trump's entire term, 45 combat deaths were reported in Afghanistan.

Not that I know of.

But then, why didn't Trump fire dozens of officials below him for corruption, rather than firing those for being disloyal to him?

I don't know.

But then, do you think Trump would have? Trump’s own former chief of staff, John Kelly, stated the following about Trump:

"A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.' A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family — for all Gold Star families — on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.”

The incompetence was the Pentagon's - not Biden's. Although 13 died from an unexpected 'ISIS' suicide bomber, by evacuating all servicemen, Biden potentially saved thousands of lives on both the US & Afghan side. Absolutely nothing good could come out of a continued US presence in Afghanistan.

 

Why would anyone seek Trump's 'advice' and 'counsel'? He has nothing to offer.

 

Then we don't blame Trump for the phuster cluck Biden created.

 

My posts in this thread were absolutely on the topic. Unfortunately, even though it's obviously fake, you are still going with it.

Disappointed in you. You have to know this is false, but you are sticking with your team anyway.

 

And isn't hubby proud.

 

You're entitled to your opinion but not your facts.

 

Huh.
Maybe we could ask Bush.
Or Obama. You know, since he was commander in chief for 8 of those years.

Oh. Wait. Maybe brandon could tell us cause he was vp for obama.

 

Obama didn't start the war - nor was he in charge when the govt-orchestrated 911 happened.

 

Setting aside how much credibility you lost with your government orchestrated 9/11 nonsense, my point was that while liberals are quick to skewer trump for letting the war go for the 4 years he was in charge, you ignore that Obama was in charge for twice as long and not only did nothing to end the war, he expanded it. And Brandon was his vp so perhaps he could explain why it took trump to negotiate a withdrawal and brandon to mess it up.

 

You selectively quoted trump to alter the meaning he conveyed in his speech.
You know what you did and so do we.

 

You need to get a clue.

 

And why wasn’t Trump held accountable for letting all those Taliban out of prison? As far as I know there were no crystal balls showing that the Afghani government would pack bags and bugger off

 

Like Faux does? Cutting away when he descends into gibberish? Even Trump is acknowledging he is rambling -the weave”

 

When has America ever successfully prosecuted a war?

 

I never said I was a fan of Obama. I don't follow any party, and see the Democrats as only a slightly better than the Republicans.

But let's be clear. Obama did not start the war, nor was he behind the covert machinations that provided the pretext for the war.

Obama is, however, as much a war hawk as Bush & his predecessors. Obama expanded the CIA's involvement in operating paramilitary groups in Afghanistan (with Trump continuing this expansion). Obama also ignored the then Libyan leader Gaddafi's plea to end the airstrikes on his country before he was later captured by US-backed Al-Qaeda 'rebels' and murdered. And Hillary is also a guilty collaborator in Gaddafi's murder.

But if you think Trump is any better, I already posted a thread listing all the reasons he's not the "anti-war" president as he repeatedly claimed to be:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ht-about-being-the-anti-war-president.622393/

Note that Trump also knew about Russian bounties on American soldiers in Afghanistan, but repeatedly dodged questions or denied knowing anything when asked about it.

* First, Trump's deal with the Taliban was a theatrical show before the end of his term to create kudos for himself to help him in his re-election bid. Trump doesn't care about people, let alone American soldiers or veterans. He always has an ulterior motive. The Doha agreement didn't even involve the then Afghan government, and also had secret annexes. So the deal was one of the critical events that caused the collapse of the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF).

-------------------
* Second, Trump never intended to withdraw from Afghanistan. Take it from his then Defense Secretary, Chris Miller:

The Trump deal brokered in Doha, Qatar, in February 2020 sought to create a power-sharing agreement between the Taliban and the Afghan government led by President Ashraf Ghani—and apparently hinged in part on fakery. According to a report from Defense One late Wednesday, former acting US Defense Secretary Chris Miller, who served during Trump’s final three months in office, now says the Trump administration never really intended to withdraw all US forces. Despite President Trump’s repeated declarations about ending the war, the true plan, according to Miller, was to squeeze Ghani into agreeing to a deal that heavily favored the Taliban and ultimately would leave in place a counterterrorism force of 800 or more American personnel. Miller went to Kabul for talks in December 2020, where he found Ghani to be “gracious and respectful” before things took a an ominous turn.
[...]
The unfolding crisis poses enormous challenges for President Biden ... But to whatever degree Biden will ultimately be judged as having risen to the occasion or failed it, his predecessor played an unmistakably key role in creating a historic foreign policy crisis.

------------------
* Third, if Trump wanted to withdraw, he would first have to ensure that the ANDSF were both willing & capable of maintaining its strength to ensure law & order despite the Taliban's power & influence. But they were far from willing, capable or ready. Instead they accepted monetary bribes from the Taliban in return for handing over their weapons & their surrender.

These were not the first indications that Taliban leaders were emboldened by Trump administration moves. According to the Washington Post, a series of negotiated surrenders began across Afghanistan in early 2020, shortly after Trump announced the US would be leaving: “The deals…were often described by Afghan officials as cease-fires, but Taliban leaders were in fact offering money in exchange for government forces to hand over their weapons, according to an Afghan officer and a U.S. official. Over the next year and a half, the meetings advanced to the district level and then rapidly on to provincial capitals, culminating in a breathtaking series of negotiated surrenders by government forces, according to interviews with more than a dozen Afghan officers, police, special operations troops and other soldiers.”

-------------------
* Fourth, how did Biden mess it up? The Taliban's power & strength grew exponentially after it was emboldened by the Doha agreement, as the ANDSF began thereafter to dismantle. So when Biden came to office, he had to make an early decision before the capital would be inevitably be overrun by the Taliban. If the US had stayed or dragged out its presence, there would certainly be far more bloodshed on both sides than a mere 13 deaths.

The Taliban was easily able to capitalize on the uncertainty that arose from the February 2020 deal reached in Doha, as beleaguered Afghan forces and corrupt local officials realized that American air power and other military support were likely to greatly diminish. According to an Afghan special forces officer cited by the Post, some Afghans were glad to take the Taliban’s money while others “saw the U.S. commitment to a full withdrawal as an ‘assurance’ that the militants would return to power in Afghanistan and wanted to secure their place on the winning side.”

There's a reason why Afghanistan is called the “graveyard of empires”.


Sources:

Trump’s “Deal” With the Taliban Set the Stage for Afghanistan’s Collapse
Warning signs came long ago—and top Trump officials knew.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/08/trump-deal-with-taliban-afghanistan-collapse/

Nobel-hungry Trump, when enticing the Taliban to Camp David, knew they were getting Russian cash
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...amp-David-knew-they-were-getting-Russian-cash

 

You were in the military, so was I. I do know that you are not privy to all the facfs regarding Biden's decision. Nor am I.

Well, well, well -- congratulations on your Monday morning quarterbacking, Kriman. Because from here, it sounds like you’re less interested in the facts and far more eager to paint Biden as the sole villain. You’ve got your Air Force planning credentials ready to go, yet somehow missed the most critical context behind Biden’s decision. No, you don’t know the full scope of what went down, and neither do I. But I’ll tell you what we do know, and maybe it’ll bring some clarity to the conversation you’re so eager to overlook.

First off, let’s talk about Trump -- the man who was supposed to end this war early on. But he didn’t. No, instead he spent years paying lip service to withdrawal, talking a big game about ‘getting out,’ but in reality? He lacked the guts. He kicked the can straight down the road to Biden because he knew -- he knew -- how risky a full withdrawal would be. And if it backfired on Biden? Well, all the better for Trump, right? And before he did kick that can, Trump made damn sure to tie Biden’s hands.

This is the part you conveniently ignore: Trump’s little ‘deal’ with the Taliban, signed in Doha, which excluded the Afghan government, undercut Afghan forces, and undermined any chance of stability post-withdrawal. Trump handed the Taliban legitimacy on a silver platter, released 5,000 of their prisoners, and in his hurry to play diplomat, agreed to a timeline that set Biden up to fail. And all this, without a whisper of accountability to the Afghan government or military that had relied on U.S. support for two decades.

Now let’s look at those 2,500 troops Trump left behind. This wasn’t a strategic reserve; this was a death sentence waiting to happen. With Afghan forces demoralized and the Taliban emboldened, those 2,500 soldiers wouldn’t have held the line. They would have been lambs to the slaughter. Biden knew it. The generals knew it. And the American people were screaming to end the damn war.

And yes, you bring up that chaotic airport scene. That’s what war looks like, Kriman. And Biden was left with an impossible choice -- to stay in an endless war or to withdraw, knowing the risks, the complications, and yes, the lack of perfection that would inevitably come with it. He chose the latter because after 20 years of blood and treasure lost, he wasn’t about to drag it out for another 20.

So let’s cut the hypocrisy. You want to blame Biden for every last detail, every misstep in the withdrawal, but it was Trump who brokered the deal that set the stage for that chaos. It was Trump who made sure Biden’s options were limited, his resources cut, and his success all but sabotaged. Biden made the hard call to end it, to bear the consequences of Trump’s short-sighted, self-serving deal.

Blame goes all around here. Afghanistan was two decades in the making. But if you’re only interested in scapegoating Biden, then you’re not after the truth -- you’re just here to score points. And if that’s the case, well, congratulations -- you’re doing a fine job.

That proves that you cannot possibly get to the truth because of your predetermined conclusions.

Since we have hijacked this thread to be about the Afghanistan withdrawal, and it, therefore deserves it's own thread, I started a new thread to revisit the withdrawal of Afghanistan because, unlike you, I am interested in the truth.

I don't claim to actually have it, but I thought I would take a stab at it, and see if there were any others in the peanut gallery who were also interested in taking a more honest look at it.

But, given the tone and tenor of your comments, it doesn't appear that would be you. I am moving this hijacked section of this thread to it's own thread. This will be the last post on this subject I will make on this thread, and continue the conversation here, you and others, can continue on with your predetermined conclusions, but I choose to continue the conversation here:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/revisiting-the-afganistan-withdrawal.622845/