Trump ordered to pay over $350M for business fraud

The federal appeals system will decide.

 

And when they decide, will you accept their decision?
Or will it just be another conspiracy?

 

I have made my opinion on this quite clear as has Alan Dershowitz who published the book "Get Trump" but has opined that Trump might lose as the appeals court is in New York.

 

You didn’t answer the question.

It’s a yes / no response

For you to be making your position clear you don’t seem to be able to provide many direct answers.

 

You have my answer.

 

Good grief do better that is not criminal gang and don't worry I won't play your ignorant games and post pics of BLM riots burning everything in sight.

 

Be my guest.

To be even remotely consistent, you'd have to find an Antifa/BLM riot with Biden flags.

Take your time, I'm a patient man.

 

As I understand it, failure to post bond does not prevent the appeal from proceeding. It just suspends execution on the judgment. I could be wrong.

 

How would federal courts have anything to do with this matter? You’re really just making it up as you go, aren’t you?

 

No one is arguing mortgage fraud be legal. This was no such thing.

What was claimed in the charges related to section III (I believe this was the section) which included two subsections (A and B). I'm not sure you have ever applied for a loan. If so you should be somewhat familiar with what is involved.

Section A asks the applicant to list any collateral assets belonging to the applicant which are being put up to collateralize the loan. In subsection A it lists the Mara-Lago property itself.

Section B asks the applicant to "provide your estimate of the value of each property listed in subsection A". In subsection B the response of Trump's team refers to an addendum (necessitated due to space availability). In the addendum an elaborate estimated valuation for MAL arrived at $22 million along with a whole bunch of other stuff showing how the valuation was determined. Things such as the Tax-Assessed-Value (TAV) of $18 million along with other appraisal information regarding the average sale prices for recent sales in the area and what price per square foot the market has been commanding. Details on MAL were also included. Additionally, the addendum includes a disclaimer stating the estimates are "estimates arrived at by the financial firm acting on behalf of the borrower and should not be taken as a guarantee of the actual value of the property now or in the future. They are best estimates made in good-faith and the financial institution is encouraged to do their own due diligence in estimating the validity of the valuations".

TAV is an estimate given by local tax offices for use in determining the amount of property tax which is to be paid on a yearly basis. It is common knowledge tax-offices ALWAYS give a TAV which is below 90% of the market value of the house. They do this to avoid endless filings from property owners who decide to argue about the true value of their property in order to pay lower property taxes. Estimating low avoids the cost of resolving endless disputes. 90% of 22 million is just under 20 million. Fairly close to the 18 million TAV. Regardless, the disclaimer should preclude ANY claim a fraud occurred. How can it be claimed "mortgage fraud" occurred even if the estimate given was $1 Trillion. It specifically requests the "borrower's estimate". It would be analogous to my asking you what your favorite color is and then claiming your contention it is blue constitutes a fraud on your part and trying to throw you in jail for lying. It is absolutely absurd!!! It is a submittal of your opinion. Who could contend ANY response could be proven fraudulent in a court of law? Even then, the disclaimer would grant immunity from any such attempt by even the most overzealous prosecutor!

MAL was purchased in 1994 for 7$ million when Trump was married to Marla Maples. Attempts to make improvements to the property met with quite a bit of litigation. Local property owners claimed the construction would create a noise and dust nuisance and prevent them from fully enjoying the use of their property, as well as other complaints it would obstruct their views, didn't align with the decor of the area, etc. Endless litigations. Eventually in 2014 (?) Trump succeeded in litigation and construction approvals were given to make upgrades. Trumps financial firm submitted the application on his behalf, giving the above estimates in the application. The loans to upgrade the property were quite extensive (my recollection is they were $107 million). The bank did their own assessment of the MAL property and determined the 22 million dollar estimate was a reasonable estimate for the current value. I'm no expert, but it would appear to me the approval for the loan would be heavily dictated by the quality of the improvements to MAL using the loan, rather than just the current value of the unimproved property. The upgrades well exceeded the current value of the property and it would be the upgraded property which collateralized the loan. This is why there were requirements for construction inspections by the bank at certain stages of the retrofit. None of which matter in regards to claims of fraud.

I've gotten loans from banks where they asked for MY ESTIMATE of the value of a car which I was applying for a loan to purchase. I just looked up the NADA value and judged it to be in excellent condition and wrote down the number. I gave no reasoning for MY ESTIMATE whatsoever. Perhaps it was actually in average condition according to someone else. But it is MY ESTIMATE after all. It is almost theoretically impossible for any prosecution to prove such estimates are "criminal". No one in the history of finance has EVER been charged with providing a bad estimate which would constitute MORTGAGE FRAUD. NOT ONE TIME in the history of the US. In this case it wasn't just an estimate, the method used to derive the estimate was given. Even more problematic for any criminal claim is the disclaimer clearly indicating this was an estimate and not a guarantee of the current or future sale price which cannot be ascertained until a sale is actually concluded. Which is obvious to everyone, especially banks. The bank did their own assessment (as they always do) and concluded the estimate was good with complete transparency.

The loan was paid back ahead of time. There were no victims who were damaged financially. No one even submitted a complaint claiming to be a damaged party (a requirement to even BEGIN an investigation into a private transaction). They just had a target and decided to go digging hoping to find something. This is not the judicial process in the US or any other Western nation. The prosecution claimed the "high estimate" resulted in better terms for the loan and therefore financial damages did occur due to a lower rate being offered than would have otherwise occurred. The bank made no claim they felt at any time the estimates were out of line. The banks own internal valuations were above that assessed in the application.

Never in the history of the statute or any other similar statutes throughout the world of Western finance going back to the time of Hammurabi has ANYONE EVER BEEN CHARGED with mortgage fraud for providing a bad estimate. There have been many who have been charged and convicted of mortgage fraud, but only for incorrectly and intentionally listing collateral in Subsection A which they knowingly did not own. This happens all the time. Someone claims they own a house, takes out a loan and then vanishes. But not for a bad estimate!!! There can be little doubt this is politically motivated persecution. In fact what it tells me is Left-Wing DA's and AG's went in search of ANYTHING they could find to try and get Trump and interfere with his ability to campaign, even pulling every trick in the book (judge shopping, etc.) to perhaps get a weak conviction (but interference would suffice as the charges were laughable). What it really means to me is, "MY GOD! Trump must have the integrity of a Saint"!!! What one of us could have hundreds of DA's and AG's with limitless funds scouring every aspect of our life for the smallest infraction, to only come up with such a ridiculous charge. And the guy is a billionaire, so he is involved in a great deal more than your average Joe. I am actually stunned that is all they could come up with.

And then there is Georgia where the AG campaigned on a platform which consisted of one item... "Vote for me and I will find something to convict Trump for"! That is literally a quote made dozens of times by the then candidate for AG of Georgia. After such repeated statements ANY charges filed by this woman should immediately be thrown out Prima Facie (Latin for at first look, or on the face of it). This violates every legal Norm of US Law. This is the kind of crap you see in Soviet Russia. Lavrentiy Beria from the former soviet union famously stated, "Show me a person and I will find you a crime". He was the head of Stalin's internal police. The guy would have his driver drive him through the streets of Moscow. When he saw pretty girls he ordered his henchman to arrest her on the spot. He would take them back to his residence and brutality beat and rape them mercilessly. When he tired of them he would have them murdered, filed under some made up crime, and convicted by none other than Beria himself. Not once but reportedly hundreds of times. The guy was literally a serial killer. When they needed slave workers to work on various projects like the Siberian Railroad he would hand out quota's for 50k to 100K men arrested. They would find any minor charge to convict and sentence them to hard labor in the Gulag. If they couldn't find a crime they would make one up. This is obviously the case in Georgia. This is not due process of law practiced in the US. We don't go investigating people (especially potential and former POTUS') we wish to legally attack in the hopes we can find something to defeat them politically. This has GOT to stop!

In the Georgia case he is charged with lying when he contested votes cast in the 2020 election. According to her, "Trump didn't actually believe the election was fraudulent and therefore his filings contesting improper ballots were cast was a lie." Subsequently charging him will lying on a court document? And not just him, every member of the legal team as well, claiming some on the team didn't agree election fraud occurred so their filing as legal representatives on behalf of Trump constituted a RICO case against them as well. The biased judge then required they be deposed under oath!!! On what planet can the defendant's legal representatives be asked to testify about private protected conversations with their client to determine if Trump had ever indicated he didn't believe the election was actually compromised? And for that matter is their anyone in the entire country (democrat or republican) who doesn't think Trump thinks the election was compromised? God Lord! Virtually all he did was bitch about the election. Furthermore, he was right. The election was compromised well beyond what it took to alter the final outcome. Regardless, how could they possibly prove he actually believed it was a fair election. Hell there are legal processes in place dictating the manner and the right of all candidates to contest elections if they so desire.

 

Constitutionality

 

You may be right. However, this is a quote from a bonding company:

"First, to take an appeal, you have to file and serve the notice of appeal. The notice should be filed with the Clerk of the Court in which the action was commenced. You generally have thirty days to take an appeal; these days begin to run upon service of the underlying order with notice of entry.

You then have to perfect the appeal by filing the original record or appendix, five copies thereof, an original and five copies of a brief, all exhibits, and proof of service of the record and brief. You also must pay the $315 filing fee. Click here to learn more.

Don’t forget that in order to appeal, you also need to purchase an appeal or supersedeas bond in the amount directed by the court. This bond is required to secure the right to appeal and stay a judgment."

I'm not sure about NYS procedure, but this quote seems to indicate a bond is required to "secure the right to appeal". That sounds ominous.

 

Uh, no. There’s no federal question presented here.

Once again, you are badly mistaken.

 

That would be a typical state court appeal. The timing varies from state to state.

The failure to provide security for the appeal allows the judgment creditor to enforce the judgment during the appeal . This could provide much entertainment.

 

Just thinking aloud here, but without an appeal bond, couldn't enforcement take place as in properties seized and sold off for cash ? And if the defendant prevails and the decision is reversed or modified, the defendant gets what ? The cash from the bond ?

 

Sure there is. The Constitutionality issues have been continuously brought out.

 

No real Constitutional issues have been raised about this case. Or are the "up thread" or with the "12 cases" ?

 

He might be confusing the baseless arguments made here with the actual litigated claims made in court.

You can’t just raise an inapplicable constitutional argument on appeal hoping to bootstrap your way into federal appellate courts.

 

I’m an astronaut and a superhero. Also very humble.

 

Dershowitz again provides great commentary. He is a true 19th century liberal unlike the faux liberals inhabiting the Democratic Party today who do believe that all unethical means are justified against who they perceive as evil.

Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Emeritus at Harvard Law School, and the author most recently of War Against the Jews: How to End Hamas Barbarism. He is the Jack Roth Charitable Foundation Fellow at Gatestone Institute, and is also the host of "The Dershow" podcast.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/...l#:~:text=The civil case,The Dershow" podcast.

 

May I suggest you read the Decision ? The fine calculations and what Trump actually did are explained in some detail.
For example, to pick on one count that is fairly simple, Trump used his false financial statements to qualify to buy a license to run a public golf course.
He then sold that license, at a profit to Bally's. Without the false financials, he wouldn't have qualified to buy the license in the first place.
Consequently, the profit from that deal was deemed a windfall and ill-gotten. The profit(not the original purchase amount) is part of the fine.

What issues , if any, do you have about this ?

 

It is the lender's responsibility to determine valuations and interest rates which minimize risk to them. Bottom line.

 

If you wish to contribute to this discussion, please bring relevant, accurate , and truthful information.
Bottom line.

 

Dershowitz pissed his credibility down his leg. He’s never tried a case…:not one…and if that puddle of nonsense is his real opinion, and not an attention seeking one, then he should work on the appeal.

 

Maybe something based on real life experience, for a change.