Truthers - Simple Q&A

Discussion in '9/11' started by Mike12, Jan 9, 2015.

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  1. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    Truthers have spent years and years claiming they have evidence, hundreds of scientists on their side but why is that they haven't been able to convince anyone or prove anything? Let's just ask truthers very basic questions

    Why would the Bush Administration bring down twin towers, kill thousands of Americans? Truthers will claim that this was perpetrated to give the US green light to wage war on Countries, mainly invade Iraq. Okay, so..

    a.) Why not blame Iraqis for 09/11 if this was their main objective - invade Iraq? why go through the trouble to blame Bin Laden, then have to make up stories of WMD to invade Iraq? Is it because their main goal was afghanistan? Why?

    b.)Why take such a huge risk on perpetrating such a diabolical act on American citizens? history shows that the government has done a poor job keeping even small secrets so the risk of this leaking would be extremely high. This was such a massive crime which would've involved so many that it would've been impossible to cover it up; simply IMPOSSIBLE. The COMPLEXITY, COORDINATION and the huge amounts of people required to pull it off (CIA, FBI, airlines, white house, building staff and workers, military etc..) would've undoubtedly resulted in leaks, errors and secrets revealed. The consequences would've been the firing squad for Bush and hundreds of people and republicans would've been wiped off from the political arena. It would've required incomprehensible stupidity on everyone's part, not to mention intent to murder their own citizens


    Truthers cannot even explain such simple things because anything they state is completely illogical. They know they cannot even answer these basic questions so they prey on inconsistencies, coincidences and completely false and unfounded, unproven claims.

    Here's a fact. Even when controlled experiments are conducted, there are unexplained events, inconsistencies and coincidences. This is a fact of life, not everything can be explained to everyone's satisfaction. This happens even with the simplest and most controlled experiments. Now imagine such a massive event like 09/11? There will be hundreds of unexplained things, coincidences and inconsistencies. Truthers prey on this and use it as 'evidence' when it fails every test of what sound evidence is.

    Lastly, the scientists they claim are on their side, are like <1% of the scientific community and most of them self-proclaimed scientists and experts after a couple of hours on the internet. Many of these have weak credentials and claim they are experts after reading up on things like 'thermite' on the internet and mainly using sources that not credible anyway. There is a reason that these so called 'scientists' haven't been able to publish credible articles that are accepted by the scientific community, like for example MIT. Normally, when scientists discover significant findings, they present it to scientific community and it gets the proper attention; not the case here. Why? because 99% of the scientific community knows all this is absolute BS and they don't even think it's worthwhile discrediting it (although some have taken the time to destroy every truther claim). Truthers get no respect from the scientific community but they continue to try and fool the normal Joe, who is clueless when it comes to some of the physics involved.


    it's so simple..
     
  2. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

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    First of all, I really don't care it Little Green Men did it,
    the facts of the attack do not add up to what was reported in the mainstream media.
    I have my own questions, such as WHY were the towers completely destroyed?
    + WTC7 .... and WHY did "FLT77" disappear inside the Pentagon?
    WHY was there wing shaped gashes in the sides of WTC1, & 2?
     
  3. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    here's a perfect example of the BS that truthers spew.. None of the above is that mysterious for anyone who knows science. Put the top scientists in the world (not a clueless fellow like you or clueless truthers) and they will explain all this to you. In fact, i have seen documentaries where scientists and physicists take the time to explain all of these things. Look it up and educate yourself... None of the garbage you list above is evidence, it's simply questions you don't have the capacity, understanding, common sense, expertise to answer yourself and you have only wasted energy paying attention to what truthers claim. As i mention above, many of the truthers are self proclaimed experts after a few hours on the internet when it takes years and dedication to actually master all the physics involved. Then you have a few truthers who actually may be physicists but they represent like <.01% of the scientific community and even get ignored by respectful scientific publications, institutions, academics... MIT, for instance, thinks the truther claims are amateur nonsense... these are the cream of the crop..
     
  4. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

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    Thank U 4 your opinion .......
     
  5. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    But you seem to have a vested interest in it not being Islamic terrorists?

    Depends on how you look at them. If you look at the chaos of the day and use that as evidence you are a fool or a liar. If you look at all that has been shown sense it is clear what happened.

    Have you worked to find answers? I have questions why you can't seem to understand some basic things.


    The building was severely damaged, the super structure was compromised and the supports on the inside collapsed leaving a shell that crumbled down. The physics of it explains it completely. The visual seems odd but it was not a typical skyscraper. (Hint: neither was the twin towers)

    Because the force of the plane hitting the building basically caused it to crumble as it entered, the explosion took the path of least resistance blowing material and just the force of that much energy through a few layers of the building. Though it left many large parts outside the building that you either ignore or try to suggest they were planted.

    Because a plane hit it at high speed. You know you can shoot a ping pong ball through a piece of wood right? No?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV4xVAYCK8Q
     
  6. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

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    Documentation PLEASE, exactly what sort of "large parts" and how were these bits accounted for?

    also, please note, ping-pong balls do not have wings.
     
  7. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    truther logic 'I can't explain this so it can only mean i have evidence' they don't try hard enough to actually understand what happened.

    and

    'truther experts have all the facts and know what really happened' The question is, who are these truther experts? experts based on google searches and possible physicists or engineers who are <.01% of the scientific community and simply get ignored
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, I think that the Neo Cons who were in power with Pres Bush, wanted to carry out their plan of the New American Century.

    That is from wilkipedia, but other sources are online.

    So, they needed a precipitant. We were warned by 13 nations of the impending attack. Yet, it still happened, even with our FBI, our CIA, our NSA, and other intelligence forces.

    So, we knew an attack was coming, and I think we even knew when it was gonna happen. So, it was allowed to happen. Cheny had scheduled an terrorist exercise for the exact same day which would serve to help out the attacks, by relocating assets, away from that area. The headquarters for FEMA, was relocated to the pier, out of the twin tower area. Coincidence? Perhaps.

    The 9-11 Commission was a whitewash, and its basically like a police dept investigating itself. When the gov't investigates itself,, it is much easier to keep the truth from being known.

    Can you trust your own gov't? Do you?

    Let's take something that is not about 9-11, but about who controls our gov't. Last year, a scientific study was published by Princeston, that showed for the last several decades, when it comes to federal public policy, that only the elites and special interests have been served by public policy, with much of it harmful to the interests of average americans, the majority in America. Now, the study basically said we had lost our Republic, and had turned into an Oligarchy, which is fascism. One would think that this news would have been monumental, for it involves our very gov't, our form of gov't which should be a concern to every American. But what actually happened, in getting this tremendous information out to the public, so that they were made aware of what their gov't was doing? I will tell you what happened, so listen up....


    MSM wouldn't touch it!!! I first heard about it in foreign news sources. FOX nor conservative talk radio never touched it. There was one blurb, short, about it on MSNBC, and it was never mentioned again, nor discussed with their talking heads, their experts. Now, only the conspiracy sites on the net, talked about it, and as we know, what you see on those sites is generally the nutty conspiracy theories. So, this ended up, a factual scientific study, being ignored by our information outlets, and to this very day, hardly anyone knows we are an oligarchy, not a republic. Now, how did that happen? How did the biggest news story since 9-11 remain hidden, except on conspiracy sites, where most people don't read? LOL.


    And now you are trying to tell me that the Truth cannot be hidden? That there are not powers that don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about the People? What does this say about journalism? Ignoring a huge story? That cannot happen in America, can it? Yet it absolutely happened. And that means that the neo con gov't, in control, could have intentionally ignored the attacks that happened on 9-11, and allowed them to happen, so that the new american century would have what it needed, to pull off its plans. Get a grip on reality man. The world you actually live in, is not the one you imagine it to be.
     
  9. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

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    Bottom line here, you can't produce any documentation of the alleged aircraft wreckage from the PENTAGON lawn because it doesn't exist, and my comment about ping-pong balls not having wings is relevant to this discussion.
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To the OP, Robert Steele an ex intelligence guy, says there were over 900 lies told about Iraq in order to invade Iraq. By Cheney. If you remember, back before we invaded, the administration was tying Iraq in with the 9-11 attacks. They had to lie to do it.

    Even ex intelligence men and generals think 9-11 was allowed to happen. The list is huge. You have 2200 architects coming out trying to get to the truth. I guess all the intelligence men, all of the retired military men, all of the scientists and architects are all loony tunes? Or, are they on to the truth, and people just cannot accept the truth? Perhaps we just can't handle the truth. I think that may be what is going on here.
     
  11. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    yes, so? just because the government cannot be trusted 100% of the time, doesn't mean you have ANY EVIDENCE that they perpetrated 09/11. Do you comprehend this simple fact?

    as far as the 2200 people and ex-military, WHO? give me the list and their credentials. This is the where you all collapse, when we ask you who these people are. You all go bananas claiming you have all these people backing up your lunatic claims but why do you think these people have failed to prove anything? or get the respect of the top scientists, physicists? oh, let me guess... all the top scientists and physicists are controlled by the government, obama.

    once again, NOTHING here, no substance.
     
  12. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a movie to me...



    Which nations? and why haven't these nations gone public, telling the world that they knew 09/11 was happening but US let it happen? again, nonsense. What you are probably referring to is that some nations cautioned US that a terrorist attack may happen but so what? they had no idea 09/11 was going to happen and neither did US. Just because a Country cautions another Country and that Country ignores them, doesn't mean something was allowed to happen. Again, NOTHING HERE

    Yes, either coincidence or a lie. Since when is a coincidence evidence of anything? and i can't check your facts but they could be all inaccurate anyway... but regardless, ONCE AGAIN, NOTHING HERE...

    just an empty claim here, AGAIN, NOTHING HERE..

    I don't completely trust ANYONE except my close family. I don't trust government more than i trust any other person who is not my family. Now does this mean i have evidence that the government committed 09/01? NO... AGAIN, NOTHING HERE

    Magazines, newspapers alike publish ALL sorts of articles, claiming all sorts of things... so why put so much weight on this article? who are these people at Princeton? why do we need to believe anything they say but ignore everyone else? This is just ridiculously stupid, immature and closed minded.


    It didn't get attention cause it didn't deserve it... there are thousands of articles published, claiming all sorts of garbage and many don't get mentioned in all the news networks. Just because this BS publication wasn't on CNN, NBC, FOX..doesn't MEAN JACK... just means it wasn't worthwhile, just like hundreds and thousands of other articles and publications aren't worthwhile. But, of course, just because you didn't see everyone talk about this particular one, there is something BIGGER here, A CONSPIRACY. Well, how about i look all ALL the other publications that refute everything you claim and claim myself that just because these publications didn't get national attention, there is a conspiracy! I mean, once again... NOTHING..NOTHING HERE




    NO PROOF...
     
  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    lets see your science mike
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Here is high speed and it does not work that way, so lets see all the details that you think makes it possible for the alleged wtc planes.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    this has already been shown to you........your second point is not relevant.
     
  16. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    LOL, why do you guys embarrass yourselves like this?

    Show me a video of a plane the size of a 757 going at speeds of 400mph, slamming into a 24 inch thick reinforced wall, THEN WE CAN TALK...

    instead you post a plane crashing on landing, going much slower... how can you be taken seriously?

    this has been explained in detail time and time ago but you guys don't quit.

    Here's what you truthers need to do. Fund an experiment to show the world how a plane couldn't have disintegrated the way flight 77 did. Go buy an old 757 and slam it into a wall as strong as the walls of the pentagon, at speeds of 400mph. Once you do this, we can all see how right you all are and what bogus story the government spewed. UNTIL THEN, nothing of these unproven theories will hold any weight.

    not to mention, there were thousands of pieces of the plane scattered everywhere... either plane was blown away and pieces brought in, just in the nick of time, or a missile hit the plane as it approached the pentagon at the exact precise moment. I mean... (rolling my eyes)... how can your minds even go to such lunatic places?

    incidentally, since you posted this video, the video above shows a plane pretty much breaking into a million pieces and it was going slower than flight 77, plus it didn't hit a reinforced pentagon wall head on; instead, it slid across the ground. Had this plane hit a wall like the walls of the pentagon, at higher speeds and head on, it would've virtually disappeared. Your video actually discredits your own claims if you really think about it logically.
     
  17. genericBob

    genericBob New Member

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    Please be so kind as to supply actual documentation of what was on the Pentagon lawn.
    one of my pet gripes about all of this is that NOBODY has produced any accounting for
    the alleged mass quantity of aircraft wreckage on the Pentagon lawn, and this is important
    we need something other than a random collection of snap-shots to understand how much of the alleged "FLT77" ended up on the Pentagon lawn, where is the accounting for the aircraft?
     
  18. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    1. The Bush administration did implicate Iraq with having dealings with al Qaeda. That framing was persuasive enough to convince the American people of the post-9/11 pre-Iraq invasion era. The 9/11 Commission made it a point to dispel the rumor of an Iraq/al Qaeda partnership.

    2. Impossible certainly isn't the word that I'd use to frame the concept of the U.S. Government being operationally involved in 9/11. While there is certainly truth to the notion that information leaks from the government, that's not the same thing as saying that *all* government-held information is leaked. Not *all* information leaks. And the intent to murder one's citizens has been perpetrated by how many different people from so many different places from so many different time periods? Why are U.S. leaders immune from barbarism directed at the citizenry it is elected to represent? The answer to that is, of course, that they are not immune from such things. And there's evidence of that behavior stretching back to the beginning of the nation itself -- blacks, women, Indians, the Irish, etc etc were second class citizens or property. In more modern times, we've got MKUltra and other human experiments like the testing of nuclear bombs to see what the fallout effects would be on "downwinders". So let's not fool ourselves into believing that the U.S. Government (or *any* government for that matter) is comprised of *only* honorable and morally adjusted human beings.

    3. Regarding the Coincidences & Inconsistencies, a 9/11 widow (and Jersey Girl) spoke upon these:
    &
    http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing1/witness_kleinberg.htm
     
  19. Blues63

    Blues63 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The logic is astounding, 'the government has been known to commit acts that were later revealed, or later considered to be questionable, ipso facto everything the government does is questionable'.

    The membership of AE911T is not limited to architects and engineers and there are very few structural engineers on the roster. When the International Skeptics Forum examined the membership it was found upon contact, that some individuals weren't even aware they were on the list. They had signed a petition some time ago and were added to the membership.

    Despite all that, when a supporter of 9/11 truth presents material from AE911T, rarely has it been, if at all, verified through peer review. There has been much follow-up research by academics in the private sector that have been published in support of the so-called 'official story', but every time this evidence is produced, it is hand waved away with ridiculous false generalisations like, 'their in the pay of the government', or 'their trying to protect their position by not rocking the boat'. This is utter bull(*)(*)(*)(*) and stifles the debate at that point, which I sometimes suspect is the reason for it in the first place.
     
  20. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Emphasis mine.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...azen-peer-review-scandal-anyone-can-remember/

    Peer review isn't the infallible end-all-be-all holy grail that some have romanticized.
     
  21. Blues63

    Blues63 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, and that is a poor response as it merely introduces another false generalisation by innuendo to reinforce already irrational suspicions of the academic community. Furthermore, the quantity is comparatively vast compared to that of AE911T. You can start here for the collapse of 7WTC alone:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/294k95/compilation_of_scientific_literature_that/
     
  22. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    The peer review process is not infallible, man, I am sorry, but it isn't. Want to know the dead give away answer as to why? The peer review process involves us, human beings, the imperfect creatures that we are and all of the implications we bring forth.
     
  23. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    If you stop only reading truther books and surfing the internet for truther claims, you could easily find resources that show that there was overwhelming evidence that a plane hit the pentagon. There was debris from the plane all over the place, even debris showing it was an American airlines flight. If you for once, do your research you will see for yourself..

    of course, when confronted with this overwhelming evidence, what do truthers do? They change their story 'Oh crap, it's true, plane debris was everywhere..let's change our story now. It must be that flight 77 actually was there but was blown up by a missile as it approached the pentagon'

    This is where truthers show their nonsense, when they change their stories all the time. The few (very few) truthers that have made their research, know that plane parts where scattered everywhere so they come up with really crazy theories. I've read truther claims that a flight 77 was remote controlled and guided towards pentagon and then struck by a missile at the exact time before it hit the pentagon. Yes, there are truthers claiming such fantasies... Some also state that it wasn't flight 77, it was a drone that the hit the pentagon. When asked about the pieces of wreckage with the AA colors or logo, they then claim it was planted after the fact. Then it gets really really weird (beyond weird) when truthers are asked about the plane, what happened to flight 77 and passengers. I've read articles where truthers claim that flight 77 never even took off and it's passengers gassed and killed. So basically, American airlines and the government devised a plan to board passengers, gas them... hide the plane and then tell the world it hit the pentagon when it was in fact drone or a missile.

    let me add that remains of the bodies (most of them) were found as were THE flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder, did you know that? of course, when truthers find this out, they claim crazy theories that the remains were sent to a military morgue for a reason (hide the truth that these were not remains from flight 77 or what not) and that the flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder and thousands and thousands of pieces of the plane were planted.

    Do your research first, then post. This is the problem with truthers, they don't do objective and independent research and ignore the overwhelming evidence they don't want to accept.
     
  24. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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  25. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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