US Troops Used Chemical Weapons In Fallujah

I just find it ridiculous how the reasons we cite for going to war are almost always things we do.. Like watch when Iran is next.. They are building a nuke.. We built and used nukes.. Like shouldn't we overthrow ourselves?

It was Saddam's torture room first. We just took over to continue that legacy. Which adds to the tragic irony even further.

 

Try a respectful discussion. Its possible.

Thanks
Shangrila
Site Moderator

 

Your Go Joe we are the bestest attitude is not a fact sorry ~

We act like the enemy we are on the same moral ground as they.

 

WP is a great tool to have on the battlefield. We used to call it a shake n bake. The idea was to drop a few rounds of HE first to kill all the bad guys then follow with a few rounds of WP to destroy their equipment. This way their buddies couldn't re-use it. I suppose if this method were used there could be some enemy combatants killed by the WP who were still alive after the HE round were done. That's their fault. They should have been good little jihadists and died during the HE rounds. Besides, Willie Pete works really well at destroying equipment and uniforms are equipment right?

 

Wow, so much bullcrap in such a small amount of time.

First of all, "White Phosphorus" is not a "chemical weapon" as is say mustard gas. One kills because it is a poison, the other is simply a chemical that kills due to the effects of all other conventional munitions, heat and blast.

In fact, it has also been used for decades as a screening smoke in close proximity to our own troops.

Also, it's use is not banned. Period. In fact, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (the body that monitors and classified differing types of "Chemical Weapons" does not even recognize White Phosphorous in any way. And the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons also does not list White Phosphorous as a proscribed weapon.

And there are absolutely no treaties banning it's use. None, zilch, zip, nada.

So for all of those who are insisting it is an "illegal chemical weapon", please prevent your evidence to support your claim. Because all I am seeing is mindless drivel from the braindead fringe who largely does not even know the difference between the Geneva Convention and Geneva Protocols, and thinks that everything should be illegal.

Oh, and you can start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus#Arms_control_status_and_military_regulations

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Nost who repeatedly talk about that could not tell you the difference between Agent Orange and Agent Smart.

 

Carpet bombing fell out of use after precision guided munitions came along. Before precision guided munitions ("smart bombs") you had to drop tons and tons of bombs to destroy what you wanted destroyed. Viz: Berlin 1944. With precision munitions just one bomb can do the job. They are so good now that the explosives are optional. Just a single 100 lb precision guided concrete bomb falling at high speed can destroy the buildings encountered in southwest Asia with little collateral damage. Using precision guided munitions instead of carpet bombing reduces the logistical load these days. But if the technology of precision guidance were not available, carpet bombing would be a valid tactic.

Napalm fell out of favor when cluster bombs became available. Cluster bombs are not such a danger to US ground crews as napalm, and do an excellent job of killing scumbags wholesale.

Willie Pete is mostly a obscurant. It generates a dense cloud of smoke the bad guys cannot see through and allows US troops a chance to maneuver into an advantageous position with taking accurate fire. If the seat of war were in Europe or the Far East - where wooden structures are common - willie Pete would be used as an incendiary bomb, just as FDR used it in 1944 and 1945.

 

That is why it is used for screening purposes for our own ground troops, and our equipment like the M1 Abrams.



And for this purpose it is doubly effective because it not only screens visually, but also for thermal imagers. The qualities of WP smoke do not only obscure, it actually scatters the energy that passes through it (visual light or IR), essentially becoming impenetrable to any kind of observation. When you see a tank suddenly "popping smoke", odds are it is WP for this very reason.

It is also popular because after it is "used", it is non-toxic, the white phosphorus falls to the earth after absorbing as much water as it can in the form of Phosphoric Acid. This is a colorless, tasteless, odourless, non-volatile acid which is only mildly corrosive (among the level of salt water). In fact, if you look at the content label of your soda you will more then likely find "Phosphoric Acid" among the ingredients.

 

Alawki had every opportunity to avail himself of our due process. It was his choice to not do so. You can lead a horse to water . . .

 

Guess we don't have a red line to be crossed in Syria after all.

Frankly though, this is really old news.

 

That isn't his "choice" whether to "avail" himself or not. It is an absolute RIGHT granted to ALL American citizens by virtue of being one. The right to due process. How is it his right to due process was negated because he didn't turn himself in? Is that it?

 

When you take up arms against the US or any other government, you are no longer subject to "due process under law", but are considered as an enemy combatant and treated as such. There is a war going on, and our soldiers do not go around arresting everybody they come across and then ID them and send them home to be tried.

Personally, I do not care if you are an American, a Brit, an Israeli, or Chinese. If you are in a war zone, participating in hostile actions against the United States or our allies, then you are treated like any other enemy combatant, regardless of country of origin.

But if you feel so strongly about it, then you are more then welcome next time to go over and try to arrest some stupid SOB who just because he is an "American", you feel is beyond the law.

And in my mind, taking out the stupid SOB is entirely self defense, I would rather see him dead then my brothers and sisters who he is trying to kill.

 

Correct. All bets are off if you decide to reject our due process.

 

And I gotta love the constant attempts to hijack this thread.

Can't defend the fact that WP is not a "Chemical Weapon" and "banned" as they have been claiming, so now they go off into other completely silly claims.

 

There is a big difference between WP smoke, and weaponized WP munition.

Please don't pretend they are the same thing.

 

Oh really, and what are they? Please tell me and everybody else the difference, because from my training they are the same thing. The difference is simply in how you use it, like when calling for smoke you place it between you and the enemy, not on top of you like other smokes. And this comment makes me wonder if you have any actual experience with WP, because I have.

For use against equipment and personnel, you drop it on top of them.

For screening, you drop it between you and them, and as long as you do not enter the cloud for 10-15 minutes you are fine (faster in humid conditions, wait longer in dry conditions). One of the beauties is that it is a very thick and persistent smoke, unlike most "military smoke" rounds, which quickly dissipate (other then the rotten eggs smell).

So I would love to hear the difference between "WP smoke" and "weaponized WP". For example, the M722 WP round for the 60mm mortar is both. Drop it on equipment and personnel, "weaponized WP munition". Drop it between your own troops and your enemy, WP smoke.

[video=youtube;owQI9NDR2ro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owQI9NDR2ro[/video]

Although "smoke" is very misleading here. There really is no smoke, what you are actually seeing is the WP absorbing water out of the air. This causes a thermal reaction, causing the WP to heat up to high temperature (similar to that of a "break and shake" heating pad). And as it absorbs water, it becomes this white semi-transparent matter which has amazing light refraction-reflection properties. It is like a dazzle, which totally confuses all kinds of optical systems, from human eyes to thermal imaging and cameras.

Also, once again these are not illegal or prohibited weapons.