No, it isn't- and neither is West Jerusalem. Jerusalem is designated International Territory under Resolution 181. The United Nations has declared ' Israel Law ' to be void in Jerusalem. No country has an embassy there.
I didnt mean from Jordan river to the Sea - ofc there are many that support the occupation and see it as "liberating" the land etc' (I dont btw, i see it as strategic mean with an expirecy date). I mean the real propaganda about Israel planning to conquer Iraq area, Saudi, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt ofc - what else will we do without Eygptians...(didnt you post some story from a website that claimed the same thing?) I can understand where it comes from but Im sorry, I judge ppl by how they use their heads and the numbers in this theory dont add up and you dont need to be a genius to figure that. The diffrence between the Palestinians radicals and Israeli radicals is that we control owers (terror aside), we have a real police force that keeps them at check, Hamas controls Gaza, it servs as the Palestinian gov, that';s like the most extereme settelers - "price tag" and those that support Baruch Goldstein etc' - will control about half the cities in Israel !!! Most settelers are not radicals, many are city folk that live next to Jerusalem in an area you consider occupied while we dont, in last elections the "setteler party" got 10 out of 120 mandates, so no, I dont think we are the same and I dont think a reasonable person can look at the two and say they are just the same.
So what you basically say is you saw a stupid Israeli person on TV and decided "Hey! I want to be as stupid as he is !!!" Good for you....you made it.
You're wrong. The United Nations designates it as illegally occupied territory. This designation is reinforced annually. Keep a bag packed.
When did I say something racist ? Who whined like a baby ? The diffrence is in what ppl write and there nothing but hate from you ppl, Abu Sina is against peace so what example exactly are you taking from him? his sig??? abu approach is that there can never be peace with Israel so we are doomed to fight for the death, my approach say we are enemies and we fight but one day we'll make peace, I blame my enemies for arrogance and being fanats but I dont denounce their right to live in peace, they do.
What happened to " When did the Israeli government do something racist " ? Fast edit- but not sharp enough.
Because the last bus law im not sure about, it started as a way to ease the pressure but later turned out to be pressure from the settelers so I dont have made up opinion on that, Other than that there are no discriminating "laws".
I haven't seen you write anything racist. Gilos, can you read this and have a think on it. I think it is one of the most powerful and accurate I have read and it is by an Iraqi Jew http://972mag.com/author-sami-micha...cist-state-in-the-industrialized-world/52602/
Ill go throu that in length later on but from first reading - no law is racist, some are the result of wars and conflicts between two nations for decades, nothing else.
Like the old lady, thrown onto the street at 3am? No place to go, so some settlers can assume their house? In a land which does not legally belong to them?
The world is not made of pink cotton balls Moon, your side has innocent blood on it too, I admit it and you live in denial, that's the diffrence between us and possibly between our nations as well.
The Palestinian cause is justifiable. Zionism's is not. Zionists are illegal occupiers. Palestinians are defending their homeland. Freeing Palestine is a righteous cause. Occupying it is not. Zionists, go home.
Both are justiful, Zionism created a state and the Arabs of the time objected and fought it, now, if we have peace they should have a state too, the occupation will end in a peace agreement, untill then its protects Israel. On a personal note, you object peace and I favor it, you demonize ppl and I seek common grounds, yet you claim to have better values than me as a Zionist....
I read up to the part of religion and state, First, I know all that, the 1950's racism is tought in high schools as well as other things, I agree with the histroric records he gave, as a new generation Israeli I disagree with his conclusions about racism: The racism of the 50's was done and over with, it's not on practice for the simple fact my generation was mixed and the new generation is also mixed (my kids) there is no racism in the secular soceity between east and west for the pasat 30 years, what Sami is talking about is the what is carried over since, when the gov of the 50's placed all Maroco Jews in some settelment and the Yeman Jews in another - far from the main cities - their grandchildren still live there, no law will change that, ofc there are yemen jews and maroco jews in the big cities but those 50's settelments remain, today btw many of those settelments have very high realestate value..., but many dont. In Haredim society, they segrogate their wemen, secular jews, the state facilities and other orthodox jews of diffrent origen - even if other european origin, its thier own closed society, it has very little impact on the state as they dont even contribute much - however, that's about to change now and I think it will also change the way they live. Rasicm against Etheopeans and Russian immigrants, that happens but less and less, its comes from indeviduals in the society not diffrent from any other, you see that in Europe today agaisnt Arab immigrants as well. last racist incident I heard was about a yaer ago from a bus driver to an Etheopean passenger, I dont see it as an epedemic, it will pass.. Racism against Arabs, this naturally has more in it than feeling supirior to Arabs, we have rivers of blood between us, its not fair to address it as racism when we have a state of war going on for 70 years..., its crap and need changing but it wont unless we have a peace agreemnet, I assume you dont blame Arabs for being discriminating to Israelis ? Like I said before in this area where borders are disputed, where nationality is decided by religion and ethnic group, where ppl die nearly every week because of the ethnics, we do the best we can to have order in such a mess.
Pleae do not <please me> read history how did we come to this level? This is the core of the present situation. This used to be a Jewish section until the Jordanian took it over for 19 (nineteen Years) and threw the Jews out. So now you can please yourself and pick a book on the conquest of Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem. And BTW why is East Jerusalwm not part of Israel?????????????????????????????????? Because according to you perhaps what the Jordanians conquered and kept for nineteen years was OK in your eyes? Old ladies... my left foot fella, these people were given these homes by the Jordanian Army and lived in them without rent to the owners of these homes and without paying a cent to the Municipality in taxes! You have an out of wack sense of Justice.
WAR by HBendor Well… I have no alternative as an Israeli then, to welcome WAR in the Middle East... I am not even ashamed to say it... I say that with all my might and my soul and all the will and power of my pen... not because I have a warmongering attitude or a refined liking for bloodshed… but because this is what the Arabs have intimated since OSLO... This is the ‘sword of Damocles’ that they had the temerity to hang over our heads… this is their threat [you better do it OUR way or meet the scourge of the Arab revolt and whatever comes with it... i.e. what the Arabs have in store for the Jews]… This is the Arab mentality of translating an act of ‘friendship and rapprochement’ as a sign of weakness, submission, exhaustion, impotence and prostration. Israelis are not and will not be intimidated... am I the only one that would wish to end this continuous fraud and dump OSLO once and for all... No… I do not think I am in the minority... I can sense a silent majority of Jews that are reluctant to participate in this debate at this stage… I cannot understand how they unreservedly have a tendency to participate with their feelings of elation when Israel is victorious and yet, remain mute [like now] when they are needed to state ‘sine qua non’ that enough is enough... that this (OSLO thing) has taken its course and has been proven to be inadequate... I have a fair idea what this OSLO farce has in store for Israelis... It will be a daily ‘EROSION’ of the will and spirit of the Jewish People… a daily pinprick, of rebellious attitudes from the side of the Arabs, a continuous dissemination of lies and libel, a constant degradation of our Religion, religious books our religious writings, a continual state of robberies, abduction of soldiers and assassinations… of rape of young maidens and induction in the Muslim faith, a incessant usurpation of delineated borders… burning of crops and forests, stealing of beehives, farm animals, agricultural products and agricultural machinery… 40,000 private cars have been stolen in 1997…,[the whole of the state of NY does not lose 40,000 car perhaps in a year’s time to robbery and chop shops]… In short, a perpetual deterioration of Jewish lives by slowly inflicting on them a feeling of unreliability a feeling of insecurity a feeling of hopelessness, a ‘Psychological Warfare’ while a quasi Peace Treaty is being orchestrated. THIS IS WHAT OSLO HAS IN STORE FOR ISRAELIS AND WE HAVE HAD QUITE A TASTE OF IT SINCE THAT MISERABLE PIECE OF PAPER WAS SIGNED. Let me end by stating that the Arabs and the Jews are incompatible to each other and should be separated forever. The Palestinian Arabs have had their Self Determination in 77% of Palestine now called Jordan… and their encroachment on the remaining 23% of the Palestinian Mandate is an exercise in arithmetic where their share would be augmented by a few more points to the detriment of the Israeli People. TWO PEOPLE NEED TWO COUNTRIES NOT…NOT THREE!!! Now that Jewish Holidays are upon us… remember that Moses roamed 40 years in Sinai on purpose to give the generation of Jewish Slaves the opportunity to pass on… he never considered himself to be worthy to enter the Promised Land and saw it from far away from Mt. Nebo, Jordan today. Israel is entering the 65th Anniversary of its RECONSTITUTION… we are no longer Slaves but Freemen in a Free World. I wish ALL Friends Happy Holidays.
It is so long ago that I gave you that link that I am unsure the particular reason I had in mind giving it to you. With regards outright racism I understand Israel is still so. For instance very much against Blacks. http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/israels-anti-black-pogrom-zionist-dream.html Ah yes, I think I can remember it was about cultural racism. You were born with Colonial cultural racism against arabs and that is root/branch of who you are. You disagree with his conclusion and quoted OK let's take that from the beginning and work through it. No longer any pretense of there being a left wing in Israel - bar of course a small minority but no genuine opposition to right/far right views. Such views are noted everywhere for their Nationalism and antipathy toward minorities. Israel can be seen as this. She is, and always has been, a state built on the European 19th/early 20th C model. A model which came to it's natural conclusions in Nazi Germany and for that reason has since been put in the dustbin by Western Nations. Ethnic Nationalism equals inequality and harming Minorities. Western States go by Civic Nationalism and treat each member of the State as equal. As I understand it racism does come still in many shades. I accept that some 2nd Generation have mixed but I also seem to remember reading that the Haredi got more per head than any other Israeli's for, for example, education - arab Israeli's of course on the bottom. No that is racism. I have also heard they have areas where only they can live - that is racism. Then of course we cannot forget the, I believe it is now 50, differences in law which create a racist case of inequality towards Arab Israeli citizens. That most certainly is racist. http://jfjfp.com/?p=41012 Full database of laws http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-Database See above. See again http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/israels-anti-black-pogrom-zionist-dream.html# Look at your deportation of migrants. Israel is a State built for only one people, Jewish people. However 20 - 25% of it's people are not Jewish. Jews have a superior position in your society in every level and most of all, most of all you look down on arabs and yes, that is racism. In the other article I gave you Uri Avnery describes this well You were born with a particular vision and that vision was the 18th-20th C European one of the Nation State, something you took on in a Colonialist way just as the West was wakening up to the injustice and worse of such states. Sure now a Moroccan may marry a Tunisian but that is as far as it gets. You a stuck in a Colonial mentality of the superior race Jews who can take everything they want 'the west bank' and no one can stop them. You and the ME could have come a very different way if your mentality had been more of what Avnery said. In that way you might be in harmony with Western Democracies but unfortunately you go on and on regardless of everything believing you will never have to pay the price because all you have around you are 'backwards arabs' and you have the nuclear bomb. Look well Giles because this time is coming to it's end and the reasons briefly are above.
Gilos , whatever you and other well meaning Jews have been made to believe , your ruling elite have always had other motives it all boils down to Land - control of everal larger territory - what the Nazis called "Lebensraum" - Your Zionist leaders never intended to live IN PEACE with non-Jews . They wanted total control over as large a land they could grab , and then nibble away at some more. Apart from what I've learnt from Israeli's like Miko Peled - Ilan Pappe - Uri Avnery and many others , I post this from Haaretz : "Lebensraum as a justification for Israeli settlements We were fortunate when we occupied the West Bank because had we not done so, where would we have come to live? And who knows how high housing prices would have risen? ==== Until now Israel had supported the occupation of the territories with two pillars: history and security - its right to inherit the land and its obligation to defend it. In recent weeks a third pillar was added, which all these years was hidden under straw and stubble. And maybe it's not a pillar but a snake, whose head must be crushed while it's still small. (IMO - too late - the snake is already full grown) According to the school of thought based on history and faith, the Land of Israel was received by the Jewish people from the hand of God, and we are commanded to take all of it by dint of the Covenant of the Pieces that God made with Abraham. That was a nice big gift, we have to admit, stretching from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates. It was granted on various festive occasions not only to Abraham but to his heirs as well. Eventually it was forced to shrink, and now there is really no reason to shrink it further out of choice. The second, security-based school of thought stipulates that we need virtually all the territories for self-defense. Without them we'll never be able to live in security without feeling threatened. Therefore, if we are ever forced to leave certain parts of the country, even then we'll evacuate only in order to remain, relying forever on temporary "security arrangements," which even social-welfare-oriented MK Shelly Yachimovich will sign. Sometimes one school of thought overlaps the other and the difference between them becomes blurred. It often happens that members of the security school - people who do not lead a religious way of life - put a knitted skullcap on and then prophesy in the same messianic style. And the opposite happens as well: Rabbis and students bring up reasons in the name of security so as not to rely on the promise alone. And now, in the middle of the summer, when the social protest is putting the housing shortage at the top of the agenda for a moment, the third school of thought is developing and taking hold. The interior minister - in advance of a Black September of his own - approves the construction of 1,600 housing units for the ultra-Orthodox in Jerusalem's Ramat Shlomo neighborhood, another 624 units in Pisgat Ze'ev and another 930 in Har Homa Gimmel - all beyond the Green Line. Defense Minister Ehud Barak, for whom the election threshold is a sharp knife at his throat, approved 277 homes in the settlement of Ariel, may it be established in his day. And 42 MKs are calling on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to ease the housing shortage in the country via accelerated construction in the territories. Suddenly we are short of space here in Israel, which has become full to capacity and needs lebensraum. Every cultured person knows that this is a despicable German concept, banned from use because of the associations it brings up. Still, people are starting to use it, if not outright then with a clear implication: We are short of land, we are short of air, let us breathe in this country. ========== http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...ustification-for-israeli-settlements-1.380787 Its always just been abt land . Why else would Jewish terrorists LEHI-Irgun-Haganah have driven the indigenouse non-Jews from their homes + villages 1947-48 + again in 1967 ? Why else are the Israeli Govt (Jews ) grabbing more land building settlements on illegally occupied West Bank ? Ask your fellow Jew HBendor . what he/she plans to do with Palestinians living on the West bank. .......
Gilos my apologies. When I say 'you' above unless obvious reference to your quotes, what you said etc, I am talking about the plurality of the State of Israel, not you personally.
There is only one group of men with the means and reach to change the face of Israel. Not the EU, not the UN, not even the US President, and not the Israeli people. The people that could most change it, are the true owners of the project.
